Jacki

I've just been reading an interesting article about the hostel industry
today. The author is part of independent chain Euro-Hostels, and the
article is somewhat biased in favour of his style of independent
hostel.

However, it's apparent from the way the author describes the style of
HI hostels that he's not visited a HI hostel in the last ten years, as
the article - which goes out to thousands of travel industry
professionals and hoteliers - perpetuates the idea that the HI hostel
network is still full of miserable hostels with curfews and chores,
that no-one can stay unless they are a "youth" and that
twin/double/private/disabled facilities rooms are not available.

Those of us who do visit hostels know this view of HI is incorrect, but
it is nevertheless a view which is widely held both within the travel
industry and by the public at large, and is a view which HI (and YHA)
isn't working hard enough to dispel through active marketing and
advertising. When was the last time you saw an advert for YHA or any
other HI-affiliated hostel association?

What I find particularly interesting though is the claim that the
hostels market is currently the fastest growing in the worldwide
accommodation sector, with plenty of travellers apparently making the
switch from traditional hotels to the new style of "modern" (read chain
independent) hostels. Several very major hotel chains have taken
notice of this, and are in the process of developing their own chains
of "hostel" accommodation, Accor Hotels already has one, which is
anticipated to be global within a few years.

You can bet that the likes of Accor hotels won't be bashful about
promoting their hostel chain as the best thing since sliced bread.
We've already had discussions on here about the merits of budget hotel
chain Travelodge; how is YHA going to compete with professional hotel
groups setting up chains of actual hostels?

Chris Hunt

> how is YHA going to compete with professional hotel
> groups setting up chains of actual hostels?

My guess would be: "extremely badly"

Interesting what you said about the outdated views in this article
(don't suppose it's online anywhere?). I've long felt that YHA should
run an advertising campaign that tackles peoples' negative perception
of youth hostels, possibly based on a brief stay decades ago.

It's all very well having pictures of happy, smiling young people, "YHA
the place to stay" and all that, but if people are looking at it
thinking "yeah, but you have to wash in cold water, be in bed by 10:30
and scrub the floors in the morning" it's not going to do any good.
Some campaign to explode these "hostelling myths" would be a good idea
in my view.

Still, it's all rather academic if they're not advertising anywhere.

Fran

Jacki said...
> We've already had discussions on here about the merits of budget hotel
> chain Travelodge; how is YHA going to compete with professional hotel
> groups setting up chains of actual hostels?
>
Not at all, probably.

Other than in outdoors types of magazine, including things like the
Ramblers Assoc one, I've never seen a single advertisement for youth
hostels or for the YHA in particular. The YHA has much to learn, and I
fear it has left it far too late.

--
To reply see 'from' in headers; lose the domain, and insert dots and @
where common sense dictates.

John B

Chris Hunt wrote:

> > how is YHA going to compete with professional hotel
> > groups setting up chains of actual hostels?
>
> My guess would be: "extremely badly"

I'd go further and say there's not a cat in hell's chance of them
competing at all.

IMO the only way is to re-invent themselves as an organisation that
promotes accommodation for independent travellers who enjoy the outdoors,
in buildings and locations of character, away from the worst excesses of
today's materialistic world.

Nah. It won't happen :-(


> It's all very well having pictures of happy, smiling young people, "YHA
> the place to stay" and all that, but if people are looking at it
> thinking "yeah, but you have to wash in cold water, be in bed by 10:30
> and scrub the floors in the morning" it's not going to do any good.
> Some campaign to explode these "hostelling myths" would be a good idea
> in my view.

Or turn it on its head and use them as strengths?

That won't happen either :-(
Far too radical.

Conclusion?
YHA is going down the pan.

John B

news.ntlworld.com

Interesting points.

To me personally it seems national office take for ever to respond to
competition as this is what the alternative hostels really are providing
competition. The YHA can respond within it own objective and has done over
the years.

Private funded hostels will appear fast where people are visiting such as
Newcastle upon tyne and many tourist areas, with the closings in rural areas
the bunk houses are apearing to take the customers once the YHA had always
had.

As Mr Hunt says there is a lot of myths that are attached to the YHA like
duties and dorms and used by the older generation.

Also as John B mentioned the YHA has the ability to promote individuel
travel and having an escape from city living to clean air and a relaxing
environment to stay and visit.

But as some customers/hostelers remaked to me visiting the web site you only
get "school trips" and group activities displayed which is rather off
putting for the single traveler, and these have started useing the provate
hostels as its projected as a fun place to stay.

Yes I've stayed in private hostels and can see what is attractive about
them. Good conversation, and a laid back approach.

The YHA has had some great buildings in fantastic areas, just needed to
respond to the demands of living today.

Perhaps its giving the "Wardens" more freedom to seek funding and activities
to promote year round usage. As Im sure cenralisation has cost a packet to
instagate which could have been better spent on the buildings.

Anyway my 10c worth.


"Fran" <arjfatcymoeddorguk@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1f8eee5cad60c9d798becf@news.individual.ne t...
> Jacki said...
>> We've already had discussions on here about the merits of budget hotel
>> chain Travelodge; how is YHA going to compete with professional hotel
>> groups setting up chains of actual hostels?
>>
> Not at all, probably.
>
> Other than in outdoors types of magazine, including things like the
> Ramblers Assoc one, I've never seen a single advertisement for youth
> hostels or for the YHA in particular. The YHA has much to learn, and I
> fear it has left it far too late.
>
> --
> To reply see 'from' in headers; lose the domain, and insert dots and @
> where common sense dictates.

Phil Manning

I heartily concur it what you said Chris, the number of times YHA
National have used members of staff in there advertising campaigns
internally in youth hostels and also in their handbooks, in my opinion
the organisation is going down the pan.

Too much time is spent in meetings and papers by some volunteer members
of the organisation and I "was" as guilty as the next person when I was
involved a few years ago. I belong to another national hobby
organisation and they do not push themselves publicly on the newstands
at all and that hobby is very much in decline and as some people would
say going down the pan as well.

Phil.


Chris Hunt wrote:
> > how is YHA going to compete with professional hotel
> > groups setting up chains of actual hostels?
>
> My guess would be: "extremely badly"
>
> Interesting what you said about the outdated views in this article
> (don't suppose it's online anywhere?). I've long felt that YHA should
> run an advertising campaign that tackles peoples' negative perception
> of youth hostels, possibly based on a brief stay decades ago.
>
> It's all very well having pictures of happy, smiling young people, "YHA
> the place to stay" and all that, but if people are looking at it
> thinking "yeah, but you have to wash in cold water, be in bed by 10:30
> and scrub the floors in the morning" it's not going to do any good.
> Some campaign to explode these "hostelling myths" would be a good idea
> in my view.
>
> Still, it's all rather academic if they're not advertising anywhere.

Ken

In article <1160036808.154737.209310@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups .com>,
Jacki <jacki@pr-photo.net> writes
>I've just been reading an interesting article about the hostel industry
>today. The author is part of independent chain Euro-Hostels, and the
>article is somewhat biased in favour of his style of independent
>hostel.
>
>However, it's apparent from the way the author describes the style of
>HI hostels that he's not visited a HI hostel in the last ten years, as
>the article - which goes out to thousands of travel industry
>professionals and hoteliers - perpetuates the idea that the HI hostel
>network is still full of miserable hostels with curfews and chores,
>that no-one can stay unless they are a "youth" and that
>twin/double/private/disabled facilities rooms are not available.


>
>Those of us who do visit hostels know this view of HI is incorrect, but
>it is nevertheless a view which is widely held both within the travel
>industry and by the public at large, and is a view which HI (and YHA)
>isn't working hard enough to dispel through active marketing and
>advertising. When was the last time you saw an advert for YHA or any
>other HI-affiliated hostel association?
>
>What I find particularly interesting though is the claim that the
>hostels market is currently the fastest growing in the worldwide
>accommodation sector, with plenty of travellers apparently making the
>switch from traditional hotels to the new style of "modern" (read chain
>independent) hostels. Several very major hotel chains have taken
>notice of this, and are in the process of developing their own chains
>of "hostel" accommodation, Accor Hotels already has one, which is
>anticipated to be global within a few years.
>
>You can bet that the likes of Accor hotels won't be bashful about
>promoting their hostel chain as the best thing since sliced bread.
>We've already had discussions on here about the merits of budget hotel
>chain Travelodge; how is YHA going to compete with professional hotel
>groups setting up chains of actual hostels?
>
You should avoid being influenced by one particular regular poster whom
close questioning will reveal has never actually stayed at a Travelodge.
Actually Travelodge are not cheap and they provide double bedded rooms
and nothing else. If one is within a prohibited degree of affinity or
otherwise not on shagging terms, then its 2 x 56 = £112. If the YHA
sticks to what it is good at, it has nothing to fear from Travelodge.

--
Ken

Jacki

Ken wrote:

> You should avoid being influenced by one particular regular poster whom
> close questioning will reveal has never actually stayed at a Travelodge.
> Actually Travelodge are not cheap and they provide double bedded rooms
> and nothing else. If one is within a prohibited degree of affinity or
> otherwise not on shagging terms, then its 2 x 56 = £112. If the YHA
> sticks to what it is good at, it has nothing to fear from Travelodge.
>

Ken, what are you on about?

I said we'd discussed the merits of Travelodge on this forum. I did
not say Travelodges were hostels!

My post was about hostels and hostelling being the fastest growing
accommodation sector in the market, and raising the question of how YHA
will cope/compete with huge hotel chains such as Accor and others which
are opening up dedicated chains of HOSTELS.

The chains may indeed only open hostels in the more popular city areas,
but isn't that the same direction YHA is heading in? It's certainly
not "sticking to what it is good at" and appealing to the outdoorsy
types.

Chris, the article is available online,
http://ehotelier.com/browse/news_mor...=9392_0_11_0_C

Ken

In article <1160177985.902601.81590@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups. com>, Jacki
<jacki@pr-photo.net> writes
>
>Ken wrote:
>
>> You should avoid being influenced by one particular regular poster whom
>> close questioning will reveal has never actually stayed at a Travelodge.
>> Actually Travelodge are not cheap and they provide double bedded rooms
>> and nothing else. If one is within a prohibited degree of affinity or
>> otherwise not on shagging terms, then its 2 x 56 = £112. If the YHA
>> sticks to what it is good at, it has nothing to fear from Travelodge.
>>
>
>Ken, what are you on about?
>
>I said we'd discussed the merits of Travelodge on this forum. I did
>not say Travelodges were hostels!

Neither did I.

>
>My post was about hostels and hostelling being the fastest growing
>accommodation sector in the market, and raising the question of how YHA
>will cope/compete with huge hotel chains such as Accor and others which
>are opening up dedicated chains of HOSTELS.
>
>The chains may indeed only open hostels in the more popular city areas,
>but isn't that the same direction YHA is heading in? It's certainly
>not "sticking to what it is good at" and appealing to the outdoorsy
>types.

Indeed not.
>
>Chris, the article is available online,
>http://ehotelier.com/browse/news_mor...=9392_0_11_0_C
>
Actually, I think the article isn't bad although I don't really like the
suggestion that the new style hostels are "professional".
--
Ken

Chris Hunt

Thanks for that link, Jacki, I've posted it up, with some further
commentary, at
http://www.yhagroup.org.uk/archives/...tition-for-yha .

It's an interesting article, his description of YHA hostels is woefully
behind the times, but then the writer's responsible for a competing
chain of hostels, so we should expect some disinformation.

Fran

Ken said...
>
> You should avoid being influenced by one particular regular poster whom
> close questioning will reveal has never actually stayed at a Travelodge.
> Actually Travelodge are not cheap and they provide double bedded rooms
> and nothing else. If one is within a prohibited degree of affinity or
> otherwise not on shagging terms, then its 2 x 56 = £112. If the YHA
> sticks to what it is good at, it has nothing to fear from Travelodge.
>
Travelodge rooms generally contain a double bed PLUS a sofa that can
convert into either one single bed or one single and one slightly
shorter than normal single. Thus, it can suit a couple and two
children, or a couple and two medium adults, or one in the double and
two on the singles. It's also perfectly possible to use your own
sleeping bags on the double which means two people can share just as if
they were sharing a small tent. It might not be ideal, but it's not
many small tents that have central heating plus hot/cold running water
and a W.C.

They're expensive for one person but for two they're not bad at all.

--
To reply see 'from' in headers; lose the domain, and insert dots and @
where common sense dictates.

Myrddin

"Ken"
> You should avoid being influenced by one particular regular poster whom
> close questioning will reveal has never actually stayed at a Travelodge.
> Actually Travelodge are not cheap and they provide double bedded rooms and
> nothing else. If one is within a prohibited degree of affinity or
> otherwise not on shagging terms, then its 2 x 56 = £112. If the YHA sticks
> to what it is good at, it has nothing to fear from Travelodge.

I use Travelodge on bussiness and have found for 26 quid a night its worth
it as you do get more then a couple of beds, and on suit facilities plus as
much tea coffee as you want and TV/radio. In fact if you booked well in
advance you can get a room for a tenner, but those are scarce.

The reason I use them more now is apart from winter closing its impossable
to contact hostels during the day time, plus when a year ago I wanted to
stay at a hostel in Somerset the manager never bothered to phone back to
confirm the booking, hence went to travelodge for 26 quid. Today its all
about service, dont provide and people go.

Ken

In article <MPG.1f94acf440f2048598bee1@news.individual.net> , Fran
<arjfatcymoeddorguk@privacy.net> writes
>Ken said...
>>
>> You should avoid being influenced by one particular regular poster whom
>> close questioning will reveal has never actually stayed at a Travelodge.
>> Actually Travelodge are not cheap and they provide double bedded rooms
>> and nothing else. If one is within a prohibited degree of affinity or
>> otherwise not on shagging terms, then its 2 x 56 = £112. If the YHA
>> sticks to what it is good at, it has nothing to fear from Travelodge.
>>
>Travelodge rooms generally contain a double bed PLUS a sofa that can
>convert into either one single bed or one single and one slightly
>shorter than normal single. Thus, it can suit a couple and two
>children, or a couple and two medium adults, or one in the double and
>two on the singles.

I'm just looking again at some photos I took inside a travelodge. as you
go in the bathroom is on the left, then going into the main bedroom
there is a double bed with its side parallel to the bathroom wall about
18 s away from it, separated at the bedhead end by a square thingny for
putting a book in. At the other end (the window end) there is a long
shelf with chair under, supported at the left end by a small unit and
ends at a single wardrobe at the right end. There is a kettle at the
left end, tell on the right, and telephone in the middle. The wall
opposite the bed is bare with a gangway of about 3 feet. Definitely no
sofa.

>It's also perfectly possible to use your own
>sleeping bags on the double which means two people can share just as if
>they were sharing a small tent. It might not be ideal, but it's not
>many small tents that have central heating plus hot/cold running water
>and a W.C.

Yes I know but unfortunately it's not me you have to convince, if you
see what I mean.
>
>They're expensive for one person but for two they're not bad at all.
>
Agreed.
--
Ken

Ken

In article <1160265634.885154.303730@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups. com>, Chris
Hunt <chris@leicesteryha.org.uk> writes
>Thanks for that link, Jacki, I've posted it up, with some further
>commentary, at
>http://www.yhagroup.org.uk/archives/...tition-for-yha .
>
>It's an interesting article, his description of YHA hostels is woefully
>behind the times, but then the writer's responsible for a competing
>chain of hostels, so we should expect some disinformation.
>
But he never mentioned YHA's hostels.
--
Ken

Fran

Ken said...
> >Travelodge rooms generally contain a double bed PLUS a sofa that can
> >convert into either one single bed or one single and one slightly
> >shorter than normal single. Thus, it can suit a couple and two
> >children, or a couple and two medium adults, or one in the double and
> >two on the singles.
>
> I'm just looking again at some photos I took inside a travelodge. as you
> go in the bathroom is on the left, then going into the main bedroom
> there is a double bed with its side parallel to the bathroom wall about
> 18 s away from it, separated at the bedhead end by a square thingny for
> putting a book in. At the other end (the window end) there is a long
> shelf with chair under, supported at the left end by a small unit and
> ends at a single wardrobe at the right end. There is a kettle at the
> left end, tell on the right, and telephone in the middle. The wall
> opposite the bed is bare with a gangway of about 3 feet. Definitely no
> sofa.
>
Not that this is relevant, but - I did say that 'most' Travelodge rooms
have.... etc. There is also a chain called Travel Inn, which has
different sorts of rooms to sleep different numbers, and is generally
more expensive. There are probably others. There's probably even one
called Crossroads, somewhere.

--
To reply see 'from' in headers; lose the domain, and insert dots and @
where common sense dictates.

Chris Hunt

> But he never mentioned YHA's hostels.

He talks about HI hostels, which would include those run by the YHA.

Ken

In article <1160438287.603469.171550@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups .com>,
Chris Hunt <chris@leicesteryha.org.uk> writes
>> But he never mentioned YHA's hostels.
>
>He talks about HI hostels, which would include those run by the YHA.
>
The man says that chores and curfews can still be found in the Hi
network. That does not imply that they can be found in the YHA network.
Actually, at the last hostel I stayed at, which was just over a week
ago, they did keep the members kitchen locked until 7.00 in the morning
for no particularly good reason. So they not only forced me to pay for a
breakfast I couldn't eat, but made it difficult for me to prepare my
own. I thought it was these sort of gratuitously silly rules to which
the man was referring.
--
Ken

Chris Hunt

> The man says that chores and curfews can still be found in the Hi
> network. That does not imply that they can be found in the YHA network.

Actually, I think that's exactly what he's hoping to imply, without
actually saying anything which was untrue. If you were reading that
article and didn't know what modern (S)YHA hostels were like, you could
very well decide to avoid them because of the chores and curfews.

-- Chris

Jacki

Chris Hunt wrote:
> > The man says that chores and curfews can still be found in the Hi
> > network. That does not imply that they can be found in the YHA network.
>
> Actually, I think that's exactly what he's hoping to imply, without
> actually saying anything which was untrue. If you were reading that
> article and didn't know what modern (S)YHA hostels were like, you could
> very well decide to avoid them because of the chores and curfews.
>
I agree. Hence my original comment about YHA (and HI) doing little to
dispel this myth through proactive marketing and an aggressive
advertising policy. Anyone would think they were keen to remain the
best kept secret in the accommodation sector ;-)

Jacki

Chris Hunt wrote:
> > The man says that chores and curfews can still be found in the Hi
> > network. That does not imply that they can be found in the YHA network.
>
> Actually, I think that's exactly what he's hoping to imply, without
> actually saying anything which was untrue. If you were reading that
> article and didn't know what modern (S)YHA hostels were like, you could
> very well decide to avoid them because of the chores and curfews.
>
I agree, Chris. Hence my original comment about YHA (and HI) doing
little to dispel this myth through proactive marketing and an
aggressive advertising policy. Anyone would think they were keen to
remain the best kept secret in the accommodation sector ;-)

Jacki

Blast it, seem to have double posted. Sorry!

jonathan.gurney@wlc.ac.uk

Jacki wrote:
> Chris Hunt wrote:
> > > The man says that chores and curfews can still be found in the Hi
> > > network.

<snip>

Hence my original comment about YHA (and HI) doing
> little to dispel this myth through proactive marketing and an
> aggressive advertising policy.

I don't pay someone else to do my housework at home, and applying the
same principle at hostels seems to me part of being a member not a
customer. (And as for not doing some work at a volunteer-run YH where
the person who would have to do it if I didn't isn't even getting paid
....)

Jon

Alan Holmes

"news.ntlworld.com" <wiz@wizardmyrddin.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XG8Vg.4090$aZ3.2647@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
> Interesting points.

What points are those?

Please do not top post, scroll down to the part you are commenting on and
add your comments there

Alan

Alan Holmes

"John B" <nothing@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:4524DFA1.C6980579@nowhere.com...
>
>
> Chris Hunt wrote:
>
>> > how is YHA going to compete with professional hotel
>> > groups setting up chains of actual hostels?
>>
>> My guess would be: "extremely badly"
>
> I'd go further and say there's not a cat in hell's chance of them
> competing at all.
>
> IMO the only way is to re-invent themselves as an organisation that
> promotes accommodation for independent travellers who enjoy the outdoors,
> in buildings and locations of character, away from the worst excesses of
> today's materialistic world.
>
> Nah. It won't happen :-(
>
>
>> It's all very well having pictures of happy, smiling young people, "YHA
>> the place to stay" and all that, but if people are looking at it
>> thinking "yeah, but you have to wash in cold water, be in bed by 10:30
>> and scrub the floors in the morning" it's not going to do any good.
>> Some campaign to explode these "hostelling myths" would be a good idea
>> in my view.
>
> Or turn it on its head and use them as strengths?
>
> That won't happen either :-(
> Far too radical.
>
> Conclusion?
> YHA is going down the pan.

I thought it had already!

Alan

>
> John B
>

Alan Holmes

"Fran" <arjfatcymoeddorguk@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1f94acf440f2048598bee1@news.individual.ne t...
> Ken said...
>>
>> You should avoid being influenced by one particular regular poster whom
>> close questioning will reveal has never actually stayed at a Travelodge.
>> Actually Travelodge are not cheap and they provide double bedded rooms
>> and nothing else. If one is within a prohibited degree of affinity or
>> otherwise not on shagging terms, then its 2 x 56 = £112. If the YHA
>> sticks to what it is good at, it has nothing to fear from Travelodge.
>>
> Travelodge rooms generally contain a double bed PLUS a sofa that can
> convert into either one single bed or one single and one slightly
> shorter than normal single. Thus, it can suit a couple and two
> children, or a couple and two medium adults, or one in the double and
> two on the singles. It's also perfectly possible to use your own
> sleeping bags on the double which means two people can share just as if
> they were sharing a small tent. It might not be ideal, but it's not
> many small tents that have central heating plus hot/cold running water
> and a W.C.
>
> They're expensive for one person but for two they're not bad at all.

So, you and I could share!(:-)

Alan

>
> --
> To reply see 'from' in headers; lose the domain, and insert dots and @
> where common sense dictates.

Fran

Alan Holmes said...
> > They're expensive for one person but for two they're not bad at all.
>
> So, you and I could share!(:-)
>
Oh yes, easily. Bags I get the bed though. My children tell me the
put-you-up in the corner is adequately comfy...

--
To reply see 'from' in headers; lose the domain, and insert dots and @
where common sense dictates.

weather.man@tesco.net

>You should avoid being influenced by one particular regular poster whom
> close questioning will reveal has never actually stayed at a Travelodge.

Oh, don't get me started...... I've stayed in Travelodge and many
Holiday Inn Express and recently a Premier Travel Inn. I also have
nearly 100 unique hostel stamps in my book. I typically do 21 days a
year of voluntary wardening. Thats a lot of experience I think. I'm not
prepared to start the whole pro and cons of Travelodge once again. I
continue to support YHA as my first priority, including when I choose
my accomodation provider on a trip. I am the first to admit that
Travelodge is not the 'best' place to stay for everyone. I actually
don't like having a room on a roundabout or motorway junction. I can
say that I won't leave Traveloge anything in my will, but YHA on the
otherhand - well there might be the odd bench with my name on it in the
end.

Karl.