Remedy for piromaniacs

It seems that Utah has more than its fair share of lunatics. Especially
pyromaniacs cause every year serious damage to our environment. Apparently
the current legal processes are ineffective; they were put in effect during
a time when riffraff did not dwell in Utah.
I think we should use the very effective method that Singapore uses. Couple
of years ago some 18 year old American moron spray painted peoples cars. In
Singapore this sort of action was not acceptable. The young punk got 4 month
incarceration and several whacks on his bare butt. Clinton and the
Clintonistas thought that was too harsh and criticized Singapore's
Government.
But I am sure it worked and that idiot did not commit this crime since. Our
legal system is a racket for Lawyers and Judges but totally ineffective. If
someone intentionally damages private or public property let us add w
buttwhooping to the time in jail and full restitution.

"Rich" <legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com> wrote in message
news:bemmno$o14$1@terabinaries.xmission.com...
> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>
> "Rasputin" <mpetrow@earthlink.net> spake the secret code
> <U3APa.41633$C83.3281159@newsread1.prod.itd.earthl ink.net> thusly:
>
> >I think we should use the very effective method that Singapore uses.
>
> You mean dictatorship disquised as democracy?

Nice try. But if you had quoted the entire post, your reply wouldn't
make much sense.

I don't think he is advocating adopting Singapore's government. He's
talking about adopting *one*, tiny piece of their criminal justice
system. It seems to me that with all the protections already in place
here for someone to be fined or jailed, it's not unreasonable to try to
come up with a different "punishment" that doesn't actually turn out to
be a reward.

I just heard that the homeless guy that started the Farmington fire did
so because he *hoped* he'd go to jail.
And a lot of these baggy panted, bald, pussies go to jail as some sort
of merit badge. Maybe making them cry in front of their "homies" would
work better as a deterrent.

It's a thought.

"pigo" <pigopowderNOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes:

>I just heard that the homeless guy that started the Farmington fire did
>so because he *hoped* he'd go to jail.

I discussed this with friends at lunch today wondering why he didn't shoot for
something worthwhile like robbing a bank. One person pointed out that you
can't really depend on a transient to have good planning or make excellent
choices.

>And a lot of these baggy panted, bald, pussies go to jail as some sort
>of merit badge. Maybe making them cry in front of their "homies" would
>work better as a deterrent.
>It's a thought.

What do you advocate? Caning? Whipping? Or Saudi style amputation and
execution?

Few people execute crimes thinking about what will happen when they get
caught. Most are thinking about not getting caught.
--
Pneumatic tubes are killing the Internet.

Pete Ashdown pashdown@xmission.com ICQ:5717723 Salt Lake City, Utah
XMission Internet Access - http://www.xmission.com - Voice: 801 539 0852

"Pete Ashdown" <pashdown@xmission.com> wrote in message
news:ben7tj$rar$1@terabinaries.xmission.com...
> "pigo" <pigopowderNOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> >I just heard that the homeless guy that started the Farmington fire
did
> >so because he *hoped* he'd go to jail.
>
> I discussed this with friends at lunch today wondering why he didn't
shoot for
> something worthwhile like robbing a bank. One person pointed out that
you
> can't really depend on a transient to have good planning or make
excellent
> choices.

If they could they probably wouldn't be transient.

> >And a lot of these baggy panted, bald, pussies go to jail as some
sort
> >of merit badge. Maybe making them cry in front of their "homies"
would
> >work better as a deterrent.
> >It's a thought.
>
> What do you advocate? Caning? Whipping? Or Saudi style amputation and
> execution?

I didn't advocate anything. I was responding to a reply from Rich that
IMO wasn't a fair representation of what was presented in the original
post.
I think there is room for any of your examples depending on the
circumstances. I would insist it be based on the nature of the crime. No
excuses for "low self esteem" or because your great great grandfather
was a slave or your mom "didn't love you".

> Few people execute crimes thinking about what will happen when they
get
> caught. Most are thinking about not getting caught.

Maybe not now. But if I got to blister the guys ass that rips off my
tools, in front of his friends, sure would make *me* feel good.

Rasputin wrote:
> It seems that Utah has more than its fair share of lunatics. Especially
> pyromaniacs cause every year serious damage to our environment. Apparently
> the current legal processes are ineffective; they were put in effect during
> a time when riffraff did not dwell in Utah.

It's not really damage to the environment. Wildfires should only really
be fought when they threaten structures.

Rest of rant deleted for unoriginality.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect
our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security."
--Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

CA was in NJ wrote:
> Rasputin wrote:
>
>
>>It seems that Utah has more than its fair share of lunatics. Especially
>>pyromaniacs cause every year serious damage to our environment. Apparently
>>the current legal processes are ineffective; they were put in effect during
>>a time when riffraff did not dwell in Utah.
>
>
> Personally, I think the idiot in question should be forced to pay
> restitution for what he's done. Wildfire containment isn't cheap. He's
> homeless and has no job, so just getting some sort of civil judgement
> against him won't do anything by itself. That being the case, he should be
> forced to do labor for the state until some reasonable amount of the bill is
> paid.
>
> I have no sympathy for idiots.

He allegedly has schizophrenia. You need to re-define the usual
concepts of crime and punishment when dealing with such people. The
rules for normal people don't work all that well.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect
our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security."
--Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

Raptor wrote:

> CA was in NJ wrote:
> > Personally, I think the idiot in question should be forced to pay
> > restitution for what he's done.
> >
> > I have no sympathy for idiots.
>
> He allegedly has schizophrenia. You need to re-define the usual
> concepts of crime and punishment when dealing with such people. The
> rules for normal people don't work all that well.

What I heard last night on the TV news was that he's a Schizophrenic that has
stopped taking his medication. As such, he has made the decision to be ill. In
that case, the rules for normal people should apply just fine. The guy probably
just needs to be locked up somewhere (prison, nuthouse, doesn't matter to me) so
he isn't a threat to Society anymore.

Maybe Utah can sell off some of his organs to help defray the costs of fighting
the fire. Anyone need a kidney?

In article <ben7tj$rar$1@terabinaries.xmission.com>, Pete Ashdown <pashdown@xmission.com> wrote:
>"pigo" <pigopowderNOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>>I just heard that the homeless guy that started the Farmington fire did
>>so because he *hoped* he'd go to jail.
>
>I discussed this with friends at lunch today wondering why he didn't shoot for
>something worthwhile like robbing a bank. One person pointed out that you
>can't really depend on a transient to have good planning or make excellent
>choices.
>
He did it so that he would get caught. He wanted a place to sleep and 3 meals
a day. This way he gets locked up for 10 years with free room and board.
Unknown to him he will have to somehow repay the costs of the fire when he is
out!!!

>>And a lot of these baggy panted, bald, pussies go to jail as some sort
>>of merit badge. Maybe making them cry in front of their "homies" would
>>work better as a deterrent.
>>It's a thought.
>
>What do you advocate? Caning? Whipping? Or Saudi style amputation and
>execution?
>
>Few people execute crimes thinking about what will happen when they get
>caught. Most are thinking about not getting caught.

"Raptor" <me@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3F104B41.2020206@attbi.com...
> CA was in NJ wrote:
> > Rasputin wrote:
> >
> >
> >>It seems that Utah has more than its fair share of lunatics.
Especially
> >>pyromaniacs cause every year serious damage to our environment.
Apparently
> >>the current legal processes are ineffective; they were put in effect
during
> >>a time when riffraff did not dwell in Utah.
> >
> >
> > Personally, I think the idiot in question should be forced to pay
> > restitution for what he's done. Wildfire containment isn't cheap.
He's
> > homeless and has no job, so just getting some sort of civil
judgement
> > against him won't do anything by itself. That being the case, he
should be
> > forced to do labor for the state until some reasonable amount of the
bill is
> > paid.
> >
> > I have no sympathy for idiots.
>
> He allegedly has schizophrenia. You need to re-define the usual
> concepts of crime and punishment when dealing with such people. The
> rules for normal people don't work all that well.

Then he should be locked up forever to protect us from him. If he
"recovers" from his disease, he should be kept in prison until he repays
the fire dept.

pigo wrote:
> "Raptor" <me@attbi.com> wrote in message
>>He allegedly has schizophrenia. You need to re-define the usual
>>concepts of crime and punishment when dealing with such people. The
>>rules for normal people don't work all that well.
>
>
> Then he should be locked up forever to protect us from him. If he
> "recovers" from his disease, he should be kept in prison until he repays
> the fire dept.

I really don't know.

The thing is, when these people take their meds, they're normal and
sometimes productive. But some of those meds have big side effects. I
have a schizophrenic brother, and all I know for sure is that it sucks.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect
our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security."
--Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

"Raptor" <me@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3F10EB8A.5080900@attbi.com...

> The thing is, when these people take their meds, they're normal and
> sometimes productive. But some of those meds have big side effects.
I
> have a schizophrenic brother, and all I know for sure is that it
sucks.

I don't think that anyone would argue that it doesn't suck. Perhaps more
for the family members conscience enough to be aware of the problem.

As sad as it is for the affected, it's even sadder for their innocent
victims. More weight should be given to society as a whole than the
feelings of one unfortunate person. I think they can be treated kindly
and society can be protected.

Didn't this problem balloon when the ACLU (or someone) sued and a bunch
of unstable people were released from care facilities?

"Pete Ashdown" <pashdown@xmission.com> wrote in message
news:bes0j6$gm6$1@terabinaries.xmission.com...
> "pigo" <pigopowderNOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> >Didn't this problem balloon when the ACLU (or someone) sued and a
bunch
> >of unstable people were released from care facilities?
>
> No, it ballooned when Rush Limbaugh (or someone) and Mike Savage (or
someone)
> cut the locks (or something) on a asylum for the homicidally insane
(or
> someplace) and released vicious killers (or someone) upon elementary
schools
> everywhere (or someplace).

Does anyone haveany idea of which one of these is more accurate? I could
have sworn it was one of those whiney organizations that sued and
resulted in the release of lot's of untable people.
Or has anyone ever heard of Rush or Mike with a pair of boltcutters for
_any_ reason?

pigo wrote:
> "Pete Ashdown" <pashdown@xmission.com> wrote in message
> news:bes0j6$gm6$1@terabinaries.xmission.com...
>
>>"pigo" <pigopowderNOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>>Didn't this problem balloon when the ACLU (or someone) sued and a
>>
> bunch
>
>>>of unstable people were released from care facilities?
>>
>>No, it ballooned when Rush Limbaugh (or someone) and Mike Savage (or
>
> someone)
>
>>cut the locks (or something) on a asylum for the homicidally insane
>
> (or
>
>>someplace) and released vicious killers (or someone) upon elementary
>
> schools
>
>>everywhere (or someplace).
>
>
> Does anyone haveany idea of which one of these is more accurate? I could
> have sworn it was one of those whiney organizations that sued and
> resulted in the release of lot's of untable people.
> Or has anyone ever heard of Rush or Mike with a pair of boltcutters for
> _any_ reason?

I thought the problem started way back when Ronny Raygun cut funding for
VA or Medicare mental health facilities. I could well be wrong though.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect
our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security."
--Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

In article <3F0FB27E.9090801@attbi.com>, Raptor <me@attbi.com> wrote:
>Rasputin wrote:
>> It seems that Utah has more than its fair share of lunatics. Especially
>> pyromaniacs cause every year serious damage to our environment. Apparently
>> the current legal processes are ineffective; they were put in effect during
>> a time when riffraff did not dwell in Utah.
>
>It's not really damage to the environment. Wildfires should only really
>be fought when they threaten structures.
>
>Rest of rant deleted for unoriginality.
>
I agree. Some trees even require fires occasionally to drop their seeds and
regrow. Look at what they have to do with the redwoods and sequoias. They have
to burn the bottom of the trunks by hand to cause the great trees to drop
their pinenuts.

	#1
Rasputin	Remedy for piromaniacs It seems that Utah has more than its fair share of lunatics. Especially pyromaniacs cause every year serious damage to our environment. Apparently the current legal processes are ineffective; they were put in effect during a time when riffraff did not dwell in Utah. I think we should use the very effective method that Singapore uses. Couple of years ago some 18 year old American moron spray painted peoples cars. In Singapore this sort of action was not acceptable. The young punk got 4 month incarceration and several whacks on his bare butt. Clinton and the Clintonistas thought that was too harsh and criticized Singapore's Government. But I am sure it worked and that idiot did not commit this crime since. Our legal system is a racket for Lawyers and Judges but totally ineffective. If someone intentionally damages private or public property let us add w buttwhooping to the time in jail and full restitution.

	#2
pigo	Re: Remedy for piromaniacs "Rich" <legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com> wrote in message news:bemmno$o14$1@terabinaries.xmission.com... > [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup] > > "Rasputin" <mpetrow@earthlink.net> spake the secret code > <U3APa.41633$C83.3281159@newsread1.prod.itd.earthl ink.net> thusly: > > >I think we should use the very effective method that Singapore uses. > > You mean dictatorship disquised as democracy? Nice try. But if you had quoted the entire post, your reply wouldn't make much sense. I don't think he is advocating adopting Singapore's government. He's talking about adopting one, tiny piece of their criminal justice system. It seems to me that with all the protections already in place here for someone to be fined or jailed, it's not unreasonable to try to come up with a different "punishment" that doesn't actually turn out to be a reward. I just heard that the homeless guy that started the Farmington fire did so because he hoped he'd go to jail. And a lot of these baggy panted, bald, pussies go to jail as some sort of merit badge. Maybe making them cry in front of their "homies" would work better as a deterrent. It's a thought.

	#3
Pete Ashdown	Re: Remedy for piromaniacs "pigo" <pigopowderNOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes: >I just heard that the homeless guy that started the Farmington fire did >so because he hoped he'd go to jail. I discussed this with friends at lunch today wondering why he didn't shoot for something worthwhile like robbing a bank. One person pointed out that you can't really depend on a transient to have good planning or make excellent choices. >And a lot of these baggy panted, bald, pussies go to jail as some sort >of merit badge. Maybe making them cry in front of their "homies" would >work better as a deterrent. >It's a thought. What do you advocate? Caning? Whipping? Or Saudi style amputation and execution? Few people execute crimes thinking about what will happen when they get caught. Most are thinking about not getting caught. -- Pneumatic tubes are killing the Internet. Pete Ashdown pashdown@xmission.com ICQ:5717723 Salt Lake City, Utah XMission Internet Access - http://www.xmission.com - Voice: 801 539 0852

	#4
pigo	Re: Remedy for piromaniacs "Pete Ashdown" <pashdown@xmission.com> wrote in message news:ben7tj$rar$1@terabinaries.xmission.com... > "pigo" <pigopowderNOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes: > > >I just heard that the homeless guy that started the Farmington fire did > >so because he hoped he'd go to jail. > > I discussed this with friends at lunch today wondering why he didn't shoot for > something worthwhile like robbing a bank. One person pointed out that you > can't really depend on a transient to have good planning or make excellent > choices. If they could they probably wouldn't be transient. > >And a lot of these baggy panted, bald, pussies go to jail as some sort > >of merit badge. Maybe making them cry in front of their "homies" would > >work better as a deterrent. > >It's a thought. > > What do you advocate? Caning? Whipping? Or Saudi style amputation and > execution? I didn't advocate anything. I was responding to a reply from Rich that IMO wasn't a fair representation of what was presented in the original post. I think there is room for any of your examples depending on the circumstances. I would insist it be based on the nature of the crime. No excuses for "low self esteem" or because your great great grandfather was a slave or your mom "didn't love you". > Few people execute crimes thinking about what will happen when they get > caught. Most are thinking about not getting caught. Maybe not now. But if I got to blister the guys ass that rips off my tools, in front of his friends, sure would make me feel good.

	#5
Raptor	Re: Remedy for piromaniacs Rasputin wrote: > It seems that Utah has more than its fair share of lunatics. Especially > pyromaniacs cause every year serious damage to our environment. Apparently > the current legal processes are ineffective; they were put in effect during > a time when riffraff did not dwell in Utah. It's not really damage to the environment. Wildfires should only really be fought when they threaten structures. Rest of rant deleted for unoriginality. -- -- Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

	#6
Raptor	Re: Remedy for piromaniacs CA was in NJ wrote: > Rasputin wrote: > > >>It seems that Utah has more than its fair share of lunatics. Especially >>pyromaniacs cause every year serious damage to our environment. Apparently >>the current legal processes are ineffective; they were put in effect during >>a time when riffraff did not dwell in Utah. > > > Personally, I think the idiot in question should be forced to pay > restitution for what he's done. Wildfire containment isn't cheap. He's > homeless and has no job, so just getting some sort of civil judgement > against him won't do anything by itself. That being the case, he should be > forced to do labor for the state until some reasonable amount of the bill is > paid. > > I have no sympathy for idiots. He allegedly has schizophrenia. You need to re-define the usual concepts of crime and punishment when dealing with such people. The rules for normal people don't work all that well. -- -- Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

	#7
Paul Carroll	Re: Remedy for piromaniacs Raptor wrote: > CA was in NJ wrote: > > Personally, I think the idiot in question should be forced to pay > > restitution for what he's done. > > > > I have no sympathy for idiots. > > He allegedly has schizophrenia. You need to re-define the usual > concepts of crime and punishment when dealing with such people. The > rules for normal people don't work all that well. What I heard last night on the TV news was that he's a Schizophrenic that has stopped taking his medication. As such, he has made the decision to be ill. In that case, the rules for normal people should apply just fine. The guy probably just needs to be locked up somewhere (prison, nuthouse, doesn't matter to me) so he isn't a threat to Society anymore. Maybe Utah can sell off some of his organs to help defray the costs of fighting the fire. Anyone need a kidney?

	#8
GMAN	Re: Remedy for piromaniacs In article <ben7tj$rar$1@terabinaries.xmission.com>, Pete Ashdown <pashdown@xmission.com> wrote: >"pigo" <pigopowderNOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes: > >>I just heard that the homeless guy that started the Farmington fire did >>so because he hoped he'd go to jail. > >I discussed this with friends at lunch today wondering why he didn't shoot for >something worthwhile like robbing a bank. One person pointed out that you >can't really depend on a transient to have good planning or make excellent >choices. > He did it so that he would get caught. He wanted a place to sleep and 3 meals a day. This way he gets locked up for 10 years with free room and board. Unknown to him he will have to somehow repay the costs of the fire when he is out!!! >>And a lot of these baggy panted, bald, pussies go to jail as some sort >>of merit badge. Maybe making them cry in front of their "homies" would >>work better as a deterrent. >>It's a thought. > >What do you advocate? Caning? Whipping? Or Saudi style amputation and >execution? > >Few people execute crimes thinking about what will happen when they get >caught. Most are thinking about not getting caught.

	#9
pigo	Re: Remedy for piromaniacs "Raptor" <me@attbi.com> wrote in message news:3F104B41.2020206@attbi.com... > CA was in NJ wrote: > > Rasputin wrote: > > > > > >>It seems that Utah has more than its fair share of lunatics. Especially > >>pyromaniacs cause every year serious damage to our environment. Apparently > >>the current legal processes are ineffective; they were put in effect during > >>a time when riffraff did not dwell in Utah. > > > > > > Personally, I think the idiot in question should be forced to pay > > restitution for what he's done. Wildfire containment isn't cheap. He's > > homeless and has no job, so just getting some sort of civil judgement > > against him won't do anything by itself. That being the case, he should be > > forced to do labor for the state until some reasonable amount of the bill is > > paid. > > > > I have no sympathy for idiots. > > He allegedly has schizophrenia. You need to re-define the usual > concepts of crime and punishment when dealing with such people. The > rules for normal people don't work all that well. Then he should be locked up forever to protect us from him. If he "recovers" from his disease, he should be kept in prison until he repays the fire dept.

	#10
Raptor	Re: Remedy for piromaniacs pigo wrote: > "Raptor" <me@attbi.com> wrote in message >>He allegedly has schizophrenia. You need to re-define the usual >>concepts of crime and punishment when dealing with such people. The >>rules for normal people don't work all that well. > > > Then he should be locked up forever to protect us from him. If he > "recovers" from his disease, he should be kept in prison until he repays > the fire dept. I really don't know. The thing is, when these people take their meds, they're normal and sometimes productive. But some of those meds have big side effects. I have a schizophrenic brother, and all I know for sure is that it sucks. -- -- Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.