northdavid@hotmail.com

All

A few of my diving mates & I are 'toying' with the idea of buying our
own RIB at some point in the next 6 months. 'If' we do it will likely
be a 6m one with an appropriate braked trailer.

I am also changing cars v.shortly and would like to make an informed
choice.

As someone who has only ever dived from RIBs (or hard boats) already
'in the water' I don't know what the form is with launching i.e do rib
owners reverse them into the water themselves generally or do tractors
etc do it for you? I would note that the guys I am possibly buying
with are all qualified to pilot RIBs and I would be, should I buy one!

My question really is do I *need* to be buying a 4x4 in anticipation
of owning a RIB of this size, in order to launch as well as tow it?

Thanks for your help

Dave

rads

On 11 Apr 2007 03:42:01 -0700, "northdavid@hotmail.com"
<northdavid@hotmail.com> wrote:


>
<Intro stuff snipped>

>My question really is do I *need* to be buying a 4x4 in anticipation
>of owning a RIB of this size, in order to launch as well as tow it?
>
>Thanks for your help
>
>Dave
Wanna buy a fully dive kitted 5.85m Ribcraft? Will have one for sale
very shortly!

Any reasonable modern 2.0 ltr (1.8?) will tow quite happily?

You don't NEED a full size 4x4 for many launch sites. Lots of slips
are relatively gentle firm concrete affairs, and I have seen lots of
medium sized (modeo or bigger FWD cars launch and recover without too
much effort).

All up weight of the rib can stretch the towing limit of many cars. I
think our lovely little Ribcraft (have I mentioned it's for sale?)
goes approximately 1300 kg fully kitted, and our big twin engined
Tornado closer to 2 tonnes.

HOWEVER, there are some sites which should only be attempted with a
big 4x4. Anywhere where you are off a good hard surface and onto sand,
shingle or mud is going to stretch a 2wd. In some places there are
tractors who will launch the boat for you (or at one beach in Norfolk
a bulldozer!).

I actually enjoy the whole launching / recovery bit, so we tend to do
the whole thing ourselves.

I guess, in summary, you will get away with a reasonably sized 2wd if
you are careful with your launch sites. If you want total flexibility,
you should be thinking about a 4x4. For a "sensible" 4x4, we have a
member who with an X-Trail which seems to do the job, as well as the
selection of older Discos and Rangies.

HTH

David

Graham Frankland

<northdavid@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1176288120.956949.284230@e65g2000hsc.googlegr oups.com...
>> All
>>
>> A few of my diving mates & I are 'toying' with the idea of buying our
> >own RIB at some point in the next 6 months. 'If' we do it will likely
>> be a 6m one with an appropriate braked trailer.
>>
>> I am also changing cars v.shortly and would like to make an informed
>> choice.
>>
>> As someone who has only ever dived from RIBs (or hard boats) already
>> 'in the water' I don't know what the form is with launching i.e do rib
>> owners reverse them into the water themselves generally or do tractors
>> etc do it for you? I would note that the guys I am possibly buying
>> with are all qualified to pilot RIBs and I would be, should I buy one!
>>
How to launch depends on the gradient of slip being used. Steep slips
aren't too much of a problem when reversing the trailer into the water but a
shallow gradient can leave the car & trailer in the water but the boat not
floating. In those cases we tie a rope between the trailer and the tow bar
to get the trailer further in, but keeping the car out of the water.
Alternative is to fit a winch but that's extra cost.
>>
>> My question really is do I *need* to be buying a 4x4 in anticipation
>> of owning a RIB of this size, in order to launch as well as tow it?
>>
I would say definately yes. Front wheel drive cars spin the wheels easily
on a wet or sandy slip, even without a trailer attached.

Graham

Lee Bell

northdavid@hotmail.com wrote

> A few of my diving mates & I are 'toying' with the idea of buying our
> own RIB at some point in the next 6 months. 'If' we do it will likely
> be a 6m one with an appropriate braked trailer.

I'm on the wrong side of the pond to know what your laws are, but unless the
laws actually require it, you don't need a brakes on a trailer for a 6 meter
inflatable. Most people here do fine without them on trailers for 6 meter
hard boats.

> I am also changing cars v.shortly and would like to make an informed
> choice. As someone who has only ever dived from RIBs (or hard boats)
> already
> 'in the water' I don't know what the form is with launching i.e do rib
> owners reverse them into the water themselves generally or do tractors
> etc do it for you? I would note that the guys I am possibly buying
> with are all qualified to pilot RIBs and I would be, should I buy one!

It's usually not good form to back your boat off the trailer or, for that
matter, power it on. Fortunately, it's not normally necessary with a RIB.
They're light enough to push off and winch back on. To launch, disconnect
the lights from the vehicle and, if they're electric, the brakes as well.
Don't forget to tilt the motor up. I connect a bow line to mine, coil it on
the bow and tie the end to the post that holds the winch. I back the boat in
until the top of the fenders are nearly or just awash and hit the brakes
somewhat abruptly, causing the boat to continue into the water as the line
on the bow uncoils. I then pull the trailer forward, untie the line from
the winch post and tie it to something secure, a dock, tree, whatever. I
then load the boat, part the car and trailer and am on my way. The beauty
of this method is that you can do it alone. When it's time to retrailer the
boat, I unload it and tilt the motor up. I back the trailer in, once again,
until the fenders are nearly or just awash. You'll figure out how far is
deep enough pretty quickly. Just make sure you do not back so far that the
wheels drop off the deep end of the ramp. I use the bow line to pull the
boat as far up on the trailer, by hand, as possible and tie it off to the
winch post. I then hook the winch strap, or cable, to the bow ring and
winch the boat onto the trailer. I prefer straps to cables because straps
don't get sharp wires that assault hands. When the boat is fully on the
trailer, pull it out, strap the transom down and attach a safety chain to
the bow. Always strap the transom down and always use a secondary safety
chain. Don't forget to flush the motor and run the gas out of it before
storing the boat, even for a relatively short period.

> My question really is do I *need* to be buying a 4x4 in anticipation of
> owning a RIB of this size, in order to launch as well as tow
> it?

This depends entirely on where you are going to put the boat in and take it
back out. Obviously, if it's an upaved shoreline, you're going to need a 4
wheel drive vehicle. 4 wheel drive vehicles are also nice on steep ramps,
particularly those that tend to be wet and slick at the bottom, right where
you real wheels will be when you go to pull the boat out. Nice, however, is
not necessary. You don't need, or even want to use, 4 wheel drive while
towing the boat on hard surfaces. A 2 wheel drive vehicle with sufficient
towing capacity for the weight of the boat and trailer will work fine. If
it's rear wheel drive, I recommend a limited slip differential so that
whatever tire gets the best traction, does the most pulling. I also
recommend that you buy your vehicle with the towing package installed by the
dealer. It'll be a bit more expensive, but should also include a
transmission cooler, larger alternator, larger radiator and/or other items
that you'll appreciate over time. If you buy a front wheel drive vehicle,
you won't have a problem with slick ramps, but you may have more of a
problem with the lighter rear end. In this case, I'd probably go with
trailer brakes.

> Thanks for your help

You're welcome.

Lee

Gordon Henderson

In article <1176288120.956949.284230@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups .com>,
northdavid@hotmail.com <northdavid@hotmail.com> wrote:
>All
>
>A few of my diving mates & I are 'toying' with the idea of buying our
>own RIB at some point in the next 6 months. 'If' we do it will likely
>be a 6m one with an appropriate braked trailer.

Don't do it!

I've part-owned 2 over the years. Best way to fall-out with friends. Best
way to burn double your normal petrol usage. Best way to wake the
neighbours when parking it at midnight after a days diving.

etc.

>I am also changing cars v.shortly and would like to make an informed
>choice.
>
>As someone who has only ever dived from RIBs (or hard boats) already
>'in the water' I don't know what the form is with launching i.e do rib
>owners reverse them into the water themselves generally or do tractors
>etc do it for you? I would note that the guys I am possibly buying
>with are all qualified to pilot RIBs and I would be, should I buy one!

If the car can tow the trailer safely, then you just reverse it down
the slip - how far depends on the trailer design - often you need to
get the trailer wheels wet which means maintanance - washing off with
fresh water and greasing the hubs before you drive 100 miles home...

You'll typically winch the boat into or out of the water. Some older
trailers may require you to float the boat off. (So don't get one
of these!)

>My question really is do I *need* to be buying a 4x4 in anticipation
>of owning a RIB of this size, in order to launch as well as tow it?

I used to tow/launch/recover a 5.5m RIB with a 1.4l Renault 19 without
any issues. A larger "family saloon" car would be more appropriate for a
bigger boat though, and while a 4x4 might be nice to launch/recover off
a beach it's not neccessary (and there are easier places to launch from!)

Gordon

Gordon Henderson

In article <Ys4Th.1411$Zm3.191@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
Lee Bell <pleebell2@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>northdavid@hotmail.com wrote
>
>> A few of my diving mates & I are 'toying' with the idea of buying our
>> own RIB at some point in the next 6 months. 'If' we do it will likely
>> be a 6m one with an appropriate braked trailer.
>
>I'm on the wrong side of the pond to know what your laws are, but unless the
>laws actually require it, you don't need a brakes on a trailer for a 6 meter
>inflatable. Most people here do fine without them on trailers for 6 meter
>hard boats.

Thats because yank cars weigh the same as your average chiefian tank...

The law says that if the MGW (or the trailer) is 750Kg or more, OR it's
more than half the kerbside weight of the towing vehicle then you need
a braked trailer. You also need a breakaway cable for when the trailer
decides to jump off the hitch - so that automatically applies the brakes.

>> I am also changing cars v.shortly and would like to make an informed
>> choice. As someone who has only ever dived from RIBs (or hard boats)
>> already
>> 'in the water' I don't know what the form is with launching i.e do rib
>> owners reverse them into the water themselves generally or do tractors
>> etc do it for you? I would note that the guys I am possibly buying
>> with are all qualified to pilot RIBs and I would be, should I buy one!
>
>It's usually not good form to back your boat off the trailer or, for that
>matter, power it on.

He doesn't mean that - he means to reverse the trailer to the water.

Posh marinas might do it for you with a tractor or crane for a price.

Personally, I'd not recomend it anymore. It's just too easy to get a dive
boat these days and although there are some very remote places where you
think it might be a good idea to launch a boat, it's not that practical.

Why not join a BC-AC club for the season and see how they deal with
their boats? (pick one that has 2 RIBs!) If it doesn't put you off
owning one yourself, then good luck to you ;-)

Gordon

McBad

<northdavid@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1176288120.956949.284230@e65g2000hsc.googlegr oups.com...
> All
>
SNIP
> > My question really is do I *need* to be buying a 4x4 in anticipation
> of owning a RIB of this size, in order to launch as well as tow it?
>
> Thanks for your help
>
> Dave
>

Hi Dave, as others have said a good largeish car will work if the launching
conditions are good, however a 4x4 is helpful for reasons others have
stated. One of the guys in our club successfully launched our 6m twin
engined rib many times using an old M-reg Rover 800 saloon. However, he has
recently changed to a middle aged Disco.

A medium sized rib (5m+) with engines on it and perhaps full of weight belts
and cylinders is a very heavy bit of kit. Pulling this up a slippery
seaweed covered slip way on a bank holiday Monday, with everyone and their
dog watching your progress from the pub beer garden, can be a bit trying in
a 2wd car.

Also, I *think* that the weight you can legally tow in the UK is related to
the weight of the towing vehicle... I stand to be corrected on this by
someone who knows, but I think there is advantage in having a large towing
vehicle because you can tow a heavier trailer. Also, it is funny how launch
sites are often down steep little lanes with blind corners and how
frequently you meet some tw*t coming round those corners too fast... If you
have to brake suddenly a heavy trailer can give you a very substantial
'push' which can precipitate heavy perspiration and four letter words, not
to mention bent bits of car! (Been there, done that ( )

Don't know if you've ever tried reversing a rib / trailer. Certainly
'interesting' as well! A towing vehicle with a longish overhang beyond the
rear axle (say a land rover 110) makes reversing easier than one with a
short overhang (eg a land rover 90). Something to do with the levarage
working to turn the rig. Some of the proper 4x4s also have low ratio
transmissions and reversing with this engaged gives a whole lot more control
than reversing with normal reverse gear.

If you get it right you shouldn't have more than the bottom of the back
tyres on the towing car wet. However, many 4x4s have big tyres and with my
land rover I'd be prepared to reverse backwards a little deeper to make
getting a boat on or off easier. However, I accept that that is not good
for the car and try to avoid it. Would not contemplate it in the family
saloon!

Beware though if you decide to get a 4x4, especially a land rover... they
are addictive!

Good luck and have fun,

Cheers,

M

Ken

<northdavid@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1176288120.956949.284230@e65g2000hsc.googlegr oups.com...
> All
>
> A few of my diving mates & I are 'toying' with the idea of buying our
> own RIB at some point in the next 6 months. 'If' we do it will likely
> be a 6m one with an appropriate braked trailer.
>
> I am also changing cars v.shortly and would like to make an informed
> choice.
>
> As someone who has only ever dived from RIBs (or hard boats) already
> 'in the water' I don't know what the form is with launching i.e do rib
> owners reverse them into the water themselves generally or do tractors
> etc do it for you? I would note that the guys I am possibly buying
> with are all qualified to pilot RIBs and I would be, should I buy one!
>
> My question really is do I *need* to be buying a 4x4 in anticipation
> of owning a RIB of this size, in order to launch as well as tow it?
>
> Thanks for your help
>

For the cost of purchase and maintenance, unless you're using it VERY
extensively, would it not be easier and cheaper to hire the services of a
local boat owner whenever the need arises? Saves a load of hassle!

Ken

Nigel Hewitt

northdavid@hotmail.com wrote:

> A few of my diving mates & I are 'toying' with the idea of buying our
> own RIB at some point in the next 6 months. 'If' we do it will likely
> be a 6m one with an appropriate braked trailer.
>
> My question really is do I *need* to be buying a 4x4 in anticipation
> of owning a RIB of this size, in order to launch as well as tow it?

I handle a RIB quite often with a big 4x4 (like 2 tons and 220+bhp)
and 4wd has got me out of trouble more than a time or two on crunchy
surfaces but if you are careful a normal car should do. Locally we
drive quite a long way to use a good public slip (see pictures below).

We keep the club boats in the water but the trailers still need a
good bit of work as all the works goes under water for a launch
recovery job and steel mechanicals doesn't like that one bit. I'm
not sure that would be fun if the boat was still on them.

nigelH
http://www.nigelhewitt.co.uk/stuff/2007-03-31/



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Lee Bell

Nigel Hewitt wrote

> . . . but the trailers still need a good bit of work as all the works goes
> under water for a launch recovery job and steel mechanicals
> doesn't like that one bit. I'm not sure that would be fun if the boat was
> still on them.

Over here, aluminum trailers with torsion bar suspension are becoming quite
popular for just the reasons you describe. Bearings and bearing races,
about the only parts that have to be steel, are protected by "Bearing Buddy"
devices that use spring loaded hubs to keep grease forced against the
bearings and seals and keep water out.

As you suggest, working on a trailer with the boat still on it is not a lot
of fun. Personally, I put my small boats (one 10 foot RIB with a 25 hp
outboard and one 15 foot hard boat with an 85 hp outboard) in the water at
my boat club and take the trailer home, where my tools are, to work on it.

My 32 foot cruiser stays in the water. You want pain in the rear
maintenance, try that one. I spent 6 hours yesterday trying to keep the
damned thing from sinking at the dock and replacing the bilge pumps and
switches that failed.

Lee

rads

On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:03:18 +0100, "Nigel Hewitt"
<nigelhewitt@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>
>We keep the club boats in the water but the trailers still need a
>good bit of work as all the works goes under water for a launch
>recovery job and steel mechanicals doesn't like that one bit. I'm
>not sure that would be fun if the boat was still on them.
>
>nigelH
>http://www.nigelhewitt.co.uk/stuff/2007-03-31/


S'not too bad.

Being based in Herts, miles from the sea, we have to tow everywhere.

Complete strip of hubs before the season starts, with careful
inspection of brake shos (delamination) and new bearings all round
usually sees us through the season without major dramas.

Having said that, we are lucky to have a tame mechanic as a member, so
have access tools, a workshop and a pit.

David

northdavid@hotmail.com

All

Many thanks for your comprehensive and helpful replies.

I've given this a *lot* of thought and it would seem that:

- I 'probably' need a 4wd (I was looking at a new Freelander 2)
- towing is tricky with a big rib on devon roads (I seriously believe
this!)
- subtext, running a rib is expensive and time consuming.

I think I am going to crack on and buy a new golf gti and when this
becomes a hot topic next winter/spring reconsider my involvement - I
can always nick my Dads defender or disco!

Have a good weekend

David

Ken

<northdavid@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1176475821.670055.188370@b75g2000hsg.googlegr oups.com...
> All
>
> Many thanks for your comprehensive and helpful replies.
>
> I've given this a *lot* of thought and it would seem that:
>
> - I 'probably' need a 4wd (I was looking at a new Freelander 2)
> - towing is tricky with a big rib on devon roads (I seriously believe
> this!)
> - subtext, running a rib is expensive and time consuming.
>
> I think I am going to crack on and buy a new golf gti and when this
> becomes a hot topic next winter/spring reconsider my involvement - I
> can always nick my Dads defender or disco!

Had a Disco. Crock o' something or other. For reliability, buy Far East.

Ken

Nigel Hewitt

Ken wrote:
> <northdavid@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> Had a Disco. Crock o' something or other. For reliability

Sadly true. I have a Range Rover and it does tend to throw
a temper tantrum and insist that it gets a dealer to reset it
far too often. No fault just a blue-screen-of-death equivalent
but you can't reboot the onboard computers yourself.

The days when Land Rover meant something are long gone.

nigelH

Ken

"Nigel Hewitt" <nigelhewitt@REMOVEhotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news8mdnczOjpWGcILbRVnyiwA@bt.com...
> Ken wrote:
>> <northdavid@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> Had a Disco. Crock o' something or other. For reliability
>
> Sadly true. I have a Range Rover and it does tend to throw
> a temper tantrum and insist that it gets a dealer to reset it
> far too often. No fault just a blue-screen-of-death equivalent
> but you can't reboot the onboard computers yourself.
>
> The days when Land Rover meant something are long gone.

In my 3.5 yrs of Disco ownership it went into repairs for a number of
things -
synchromesh failure
main bearing failure
rusty rear door
fault with sunroof
faults (numerous) with ABS

I got rid of it when told, at 3.5 yrs, it needed severe welding between
chassis and shock absorbers. It was going to cost me £3k to keep it on the
road for the second half of 1998. Traded it in. Since had several 4wds, more
than one at a time - Daihatsu, Nissan + Kia. NONE has given me any trouble.
Of all, the best of the lot undoubtedly is the Kia Sorento. 2.5L TD.
Marvelous. The ONLY disadvantage is that the Chancellor has taken it upon
himslef to demonise these, though at 32mpg this particular specimen is
cleaner than a great deal many far smaller cars.

Caveat emptor!

K

rads

On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:07:32 +0100, "Ken" <ken@k1at.freeserve.co.uk>
wrote:

>
>"Nigel Hewitt" <nigelhewitt@REMOVEhotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>news8mdnczOjpWGcILbRVnyiwA@bt.com...
>> Ken wrote:
>>> <northdavid@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> Had a Disco. Crock o' something or other. For reliability
>>
>> Sadly true. I have a Range Rover and it does tend to throw
>> a temper tantrum and insist that it gets a dealer to reset it
>> far too often. No fault just a blue-screen-of-death equivalent
>> but you can't reboot the onboard computers yourself.
>>
>> The days when Land Rover meant something are long gone.
>
>In my 3.5 yrs of Disco ownership it went into repairs for a number of
>things -
>synchromesh failure
>main bearing failure
>rusty rear door
>fault with sunroof
>faults (numerous) with ABS
>
>I got rid of it when told, at 3.5 yrs, it needed severe welding between
>chassis and shock absorbers. It was going to cost me £3k to keep it on the
>road for the second half of 1998. Traded it in. Since had several 4wds, more
>than one at a time - Daihatsu, Nissan + Kia. NONE has given me any trouble.
>Of all, the best of the lot undoubtedly is the Kia Sorento. 2.5L TD.
>Marvelous. The ONLY disadvantage is that the Chancellor has taken it upon
>himslef to demonise these, though at 32mpg this particular specimen is
>cleaner than a great deal many far smaller cars.
>
>Caveat emptor!
>
>K
>
According to this site:
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/depreciatio...9&ED=49858&U=0
your Kia will cost you £8000 in depreciation over the next 3 years.

Enough to buy a P38 Range Rover, run it for 18 month, throw it away
when it goes wrong and buy another.

Cheap as chips at the moment, and surprisingly DIY-able, unless your's
is possesed (see Mr Hewitt above). Returning cost equivalent of 30mpg
(on gas).

Whilst completely agreeing with this: "For reliability, buy Far
East.", would still argue a middle-aged Disco or Rangie makes a damned
fine dive waggon.

David

Nigel Hewitt

rads <radsxxunspamxx@xxunspamxxdavidradley.freeserve.co .uk> wrote:
>
> Whilst completely agreeing with this: "For reliability, buy Far
> East.", would still argue a middle-aged Disco or Rangie makes a damned
> fine dive waggon.

That's why I hang onto mine. I walk to work so the 12-18mpg (petrol)
doesn't phase me. It holds lots of kit and tows a RIB when required.
I've just bought a spare main body computer on Ebay so that's in for
the same "re-programing with an axe" job the air suspension got.

nigelH



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Ken

"rads" <radsxxunspamxx@xxunspamxxdavidradley.freeserve.co .uk> wrote in
message news:8ob6235rijk6752bmb1kbbfdsmnevs7geu@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:07:32 +0100, "Ken" <ken@k1at.freeserve.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Nigel Hewitt" <nigelhewitt@REMOVEhotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news8mdnczOjpWGcILbRVnyiwA@bt.com...
>>> Ken wrote:
>>>> <northdavid@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> Had a Disco. Crock o' something or other. For reliability
>>>
>>> Sadly true. I have a Range Rover and it does tend to throw
>>> a temper tantrum and insist that it gets a dealer to reset it
>>> far too often. No fault just a blue-screen-of-death equivalent
>>> but you can't reboot the onboard computers yourself.
>>>
>>> The days when Land Rover meant something are long gone.
>>
>>In my 3.5 yrs of Disco ownership it went into repairs for a number of
>>things -
>>synchromesh failure
>>main bearing failure
>>rusty rear door
>>fault with sunroof
>>faults (numerous) with ABS
>>
>>I got rid of it when told, at 3.5 yrs, it needed severe welding between
>>chassis and shock absorbers. It was going to cost me £3k to keep it on the
>>road for the second half of 1998. Traded it in. Since had several 4wds,
>>more
>>than one at a time - Daihatsu, Nissan + Kia. NONE has given me any
>>trouble.
>>Of all, the best of the lot undoubtedly is the Kia Sorento. 2.5L TD.
>>Marvelous. The ONLY disadvantage is that the Chancellor has taken it upon
>>himslef to demonise these, though at 32mpg this particular specimen is
>>cleaner than a great deal many far smaller cars.
>>
>>Caveat emptor!
>>
>>K
>>
> According to this site:
> http://www.whatcar.co.uk/depreciatio...9&ED=49858&U=0
> your Kia will cost you £8000 in depreciation over the next 3 years.
>
> Enough to buy a P38 Range Rover, run it for 18 month, throw it away
> when it goes wrong and buy another.
>
> Cheap as chips at the moment, and surprisingly DIY-able, unless your's
> is possesed (see Mr Hewitt above). Returning cost equivalent of 30mpg
> (on gas).
>
> Whilst completely agreeing with this: "For reliability, buy Far
> East.", would still argue a middle-aged Disco or Rangie makes a damned
> fine dive waggon.

Oh it is - or rather would be, if you could be SURE it would get you there
and back on the day. I'd say a better one still - having numerous advantages
over just about anything else are the double cabs + load space vehicles. My
fav (having the best rear leg room at least of those I tried) would be the
Toyota Hilux. 4wd, keeps the loadspace apart from the divespace so you can
lock the cabin YET have an open boot, (the dropped tailgate is an excellent
height to rest your BCD/wing + cylinder(s) when donning / shedding) AND you
can leave it open to dry out thoroughly once you get home. And it's great
for a large mud-covered dog too, for precisely the same reaons! I seriously
considered one of these when I was last buying, but after the load space
liner and truckman top it came to a around £28k, £10k more than the Sorento.
I agree price is not everything, but it hardly without significance in the
final decision.

Ken

McBad

"Nigel Hewitt" <nigelhewitt@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:46233589$0$6303$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
> rads <radsxxunspamxx@xxunspamxxdavidradley.freeserve.co .uk> wrote:
> >
> > Whilst completely agreeing with this: "For reliability, buy Far
> > East.", would still argue a middle-aged Disco or Rangie makes a damned
> > fine dive waggon.
>
> That's why I hang onto mine. I walk to work so the 12-18mpg (petrol)
> doesn't phase me. It holds lots of kit and tows a RIB when required.
> I've just bought a spare main body computer on Ebay so that's in for
> the same "re-programing with an axe" job the air suspension got.
>
> nigelH
>


Ahhhrgh, land rovers. (

I've been running a 1994 300tdi Defender 90 this last few years and as Nigel
says you can chuck anything in them; loads of wet salty dive gear doesn't
matter... It will tow a big rib fine, and when I'm not diving I can go
trialling. It's been great, it's a bit basic but it hasn't missed a beat in
the time I've had it. They do like regular servicing but I'd do that for
any vehicle I was relying on for 20,000 business miles a year plus leisure
activities....

However, it looks like I'm about to have to change job and my old 90 isn't
going to be 'appropriate' to be seen in clients car parks, probably my
business mileage will increase. I'm faced with either abandoning land rover
or buying one of their recent crappy service-every-twenty-minutes electronic
box controlled vehicles. Wonder if I could find an R or S reg 300Tdi 110 in
very good condition? Or do I bite the bullet and accept TD5, in a Defender
or a Disco?

Have read this thread with interest. Thanks,

M.

Mick Whittingham

From a long history of launching and recovering small boats (the sort
you can tow) I thought a few of my learnt tips on launch and recovery
may help. First dived in 1963 water skied from 1973. Knees bugered from
snow and water skiing by the late 80s so I only dive now.

1/ The best option is have a dedicated tractor you can hose off at the
end of each day especially if you are launching off of the beach. Club
owned etc.

2/ On a slipway, you can do it with two wheel drive but four is much
better.

3/ There are 'reversing with a trailer' Gods but it is far easier and
faster, especially with limited help to have a tow ball fixed to the
front of your vehicle for slipway work, mainly launching.

4/ Make up a ridged tow extension out of a scaffold pole as long as you
can make it. I had a my one attached to the length of the trailer on the
journey to a site. Ball one end cup at the other. I had a couple of
small balloon tyred wheels on the ball end like an aircraft tow truck
extension. These saved the trailers nose wheel from an early demise.
Plus you didn't dunk the car into the sea water.


Three and four above, made launch and recovery of a largish heavy ski
boat with a four wheel drive a dodle with a limited number of people.

HTH.
--
Mick Whittingham
'and I will make it a felony to drink small beer.'
William Shakespeare, Henry VI part 2.

Rick Hughes

<northdavid@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1176288120.956949.284230@e65g2000hsc.googlegr oups.com...
> All
>
> A few of my diving mates & I are 'toying' with the idea of buying our
> own RIB at some point in the next 6 months. 'If' we do it will likely
> be a 6m one with an appropriate braked trailer.
>

Although I don't have a RIB I do have an 18 ft power boat and have been
launching boats for 25 years.
You don't need a 4x4 ... unless you go off steep slipways or beach
launches.

Don't ever put a 2wd on sand .... once had amusnement watching an XJ6
become and island for incming tide as it bogged down on a beach ... and all
because they guy didn't want to pay the tractor operator his launch fee of
£2.5

I currently have a softroader .. (CRV) not a serious mud plugger but
happily launches everywhere I want, and wife happy with it for shopping.
Be warned that a 4x4 is nice but can be very heavy on fuel & tyres for the
95% of the time you are not using it for towing - and Uncle Tony Blair &
cronies are going the tax the crap out of big 4x4, so while a shogun or
warrior looks nice - hefty tax coming their way.

Ribs can be heavy - my rig is not to bad at 850kg empty (just hull & Suzuki
200hp) - ... but when I looked at a Rib from same manufacturer it was
almost 750 kg more ! that is a lot of weight to tow & launch, and a lot
more fuel needed to push it about in the water.
I decided to go for another power boat with a swim platform, easier to get
in and out of than a rib and half the weight.
But this is suitable for 4/5 people whereas a rib will suit a few more.


Would recommend you go and do the RYA power boat course level II, you learn
a lot about handling on these courses ... and then you can look at any club
courses on top of that.

Bear in mind when you buy your rib & trailer .... maintenance costs .... the
trailer will get knackered brakes after the first couple of salt water
dunking, and each year it will need copious work on it.

You will also need somewhere to store it and a 6m rib will be more like 8m
on a trailer - that is a large thing to try and hide i n your drive.

Rick Hughes

>
> Also, I *think* that the weight you can legally tow in the UK is related
> to
> the weight of the towing vehicle...



You are correct

Maxm gross weight of unbraked trailer 750kg and must not exceed 50% of
kerbside weight of towing vehicle.

Max gross weight of braked trailer 3500Kg, and must not exceed the
manufacturers maxm towing weight of the vehicle, subject to a maximum of 85%
of vehicle kerbside weight.

maxm length of single axle trailer is 7m (excluing drawbar)
maxm width is 2.3m ..... this is why if you go to any US boat importer in
teh country they ahve a nice stock of the pretty US trailers with carpeted
steps, colourd cvhassis etc .... they will sell them cheap, as tehy exceed
2.3m and are illeghal in UK.

Agricultural tralers are exempt form these, that is why you soemtoimes see a
series 1 landrover belching balck smoke struggling to tow a trailer several
times heavier than itself.


- also for all newly passed drivers, driving licenses do NOT allow you to
tow a vehicle, it is now a separte driving test.

Pete

On 2007-04-11, McBad <mcbad@NOSPAMglobalnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Also, I *think* that the weight you can legally tow in the UK is related to
> the weight of the towing vehicle... I stand to be corrected on this by

Most vehicle handbooks will contain a figure for the towing capacity of
the vehicle, and this is normally 85% of the vehicle's unladen weight.

Insurance companies being what they are, I imagine that any accident
involving a higher percentage would make it difficult to get a claim
paid.

There are exceptions. Defenders, Discoveries and classic Range Rovers
have a towing capacity of 3500 kg. I'm not sure about the far eastern
equivalents. Or P38s come to that, though I guess they are the same.
You're fine as long as the air suspension keeps working!

As far as the law is concerned, provided that you have passed your test
before 1st January 1997 you can tow a braked trailer of more than 750 kg
provided that you don't exceed the manufacturers rated capacity and
provided that the all-up weight of the towing vehicle and the boat
doesn't exceed 8350 Kgs.

If you passed your test after that date, you are limited to a 750 kg
unbraked trailer until you have taken and passed an additional test.
This is enough for a squidgy, but not for a big RIB. We've recently
taken advantage of a very kind offer to have our RIB weighed at a
local weighbridge, and the all-up weight was just under 1900 Kg -
this for a 7.2m rib with a 200HP engine and a tank full of fuel. This
exceeds the rated capacity of even an A6 Avant Quattro, which is one
of the bigger and heavier cars on the road.

There are also restrictions on the maximum width of the trailer,
although these only apply to the trailer and not the load it's carrying.
So your 3m wide boat is OK, but the guide rollers on the trailer are
not!

> working to turn the rig. Some of the proper 4x4s also have low ratio
> transmissions and reversing with this engaged gives a whole lot more control
> than reversing with normal reverse gear.

+1 for that. I wouldn't consider going anywhere near a slipway at low
tide without low ratio and 4wd. As
someone else said, a front towbar is handy both for manoevrability and
because the driver has a much better view of where the people involved
in launching are, so it is much safer.

I had some fun a couple of weekends ago recovering a Jeep Cherokee
plus trailer from the bottom of the slipway at Levington. Not sure
if the vehicle was to blame, or just the nut behind the wheel.

I also wouldn't want to use a new Freelander because (1) it's new, so
I wouldn't want to take it anywhere near salt water and (2) it's a
Freelander - no low-ratio, not easy to see where you'd fit a front
towbar and the towing capacity is going to be less.

Getting a bit off-topic, but if possible you want to fit hub-greasers.
More modern trailers are now being fitted with disk brakes which is
great news for keeping maintenance efforts down - you don't need to
worry about the brakes salting up , and it's a lot easier to seal
the bearings against water ingress .



--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Young pete@antipope.dot.org Remove dot. to reply
"Just another crouton, floating on the bouillabaisse of life"

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