Wilson

Hi

Does anybody know why springs are called springs please?

Wilson

Wilson

"Wilson" <WilsondotBolsover@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:coqdnet2oJ_m8yrbRVnyjAA@bt.com...
> Hi
>
> Does anybody know why springs are called springs please?
>
> Wilson
To clarify: I mean bow and stern springs, not spring tides.

Wilson

Martin

On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 20:42:07 +0100, "Wilson" <WilsondotBolsover@btinternet.com>
wrote:

>"Wilson" <WilsondotBolsover@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>news:coqdnet2oJ_m8yrbRVnyjAA@bt.com...
>> Hi
>>
>> Does anybody know why springs are called springs please?
>>
>> Wilson
>To clarify: I mean bow and stern springs, not spring tides.

because they are springy.
--

Martin

Quilljar

Is it not self evident? When fastened with a spring, the boat is more
springy...I mean to say, they are... well...springs...?

--
Yrs Quilly

http://quilljar.users.btopenworld.com/gall.html

"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:g30fb3p6nttpnlafmvl951c977m3t70unv@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 20:42:07 +0100, "Wilson"
> <WilsondotBolsover@btinternet.com>
> wrote:
>
>>"Wilson" <WilsondotBolsover@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>>news:coqdnet2oJ_m8yrbRVnyjAA@bt.com...
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Does anybody know why springs are called springs please?
>>>
>>> Wilson
>>To clarify: I mean bow and stern springs, not spring tides.
>
> because they are springy.
> --
>
> Martin
>

Martin

On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:35:50 +0100, "Quilljar" <Not@home.today> wrote:

>Is it not self evident? When fastened with a spring, the boat is more
>springy...I mean to say, they are... well...springs...?

>"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
>news:g30fb3p6nttpnlafmvl951c977m3t70unv@4ax.com.. .
>> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 20:42:07 +0100, "Wilson"
>> <WilsondotBolsover@btinternet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Wilson" <WilsondotBolsover@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>>>news:coqdnet2oJ_m8yrbRVnyjAA@bt.com...
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> Does anybody know why springs are called springs please?
>>>>
>>>> Wilson
>>>To clarify: I mean bow and stern springs, not spring tides.
>>
>> because they are springy.

If you didn't top post you might have noticed that I had already given the same
answer.
--

Martin

Wilson

"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:g30fb3p6nttpnlafmvl951c977m3t70unv@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 20:42:07 +0100, "Wilson"
> <WilsondotBolsover@btinternet.com>
> wrote:
>
>>"Wilson" <WilsondotBolsover@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>>news:coqdnet2oJ_m8yrbRVnyjAA@bt.com...
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Does anybody know why springs are called springs please?
>>>
>>> Wilson
>>To clarify: I mean bow and stern springs, not spring tides.
>
> because they are springy.
> --
>
> Martin
>
Except their task is actually the opposite: they hold the boat in a stable
position. No springiness is required...

Wilson

Martin

On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 22:01:56 +0100, "Wilson" <WilsondotBolsover@btinternet.com>
wrote:

>"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
>news:g30fb3p6nttpnlafmvl951c977m3t70unv@4ax.com.. .
>> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 20:42:07 +0100, "Wilson"
>> <WilsondotBolsover@btinternet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Wilson" <WilsondotBolsover@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>>>news:coqdnet2oJ_m8yrbRVnyjAA@bt.com...
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> Does anybody know why springs are called springs please?
>>>>
>>>> Wilson
>>>To clarify: I mean bow and stern springs, not spring tides.
>>
>> because they are springy.
>> --
>>
>> Martin
>>
>Except their task is actually the opposite: they hold the boat in a stable
>position. No springiness is required...

Wrong springs prevent "snatching"
--

Martin

Pete

Martin wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:35:50 +0100, "Quilljar" <Not@home.today> wrote:
>
>
>>Is it not self evident? When fastened with a spring, the boat is more
>>springy...I mean to say, they are... well...springs...?
>
>
>>"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:g30fb3p6nttpnlafmvl951c977m3t70unv@4ax.com. ..
>>
>>>On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 20:42:07 +0100, "Wilson"
>>><WilsondotBolsover@btinternet.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Wilson" <WilsondotBolsover@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:coqdnet2oJ_m8yrbRVnyjAA@bt.com...
>>>>
>>>>>Hi
>>>>>
>>>>>Does anybody know why springs are called springs please?
>>>>>
>>>>>Wilson
>>>>
>>>>To clarify: I mean bow and stern springs, not spring tides.
>>>
>>>because they are springy.
>
>
> If you didn't top post you might have noticed that I had already given the same
> answer.
Even though two of you seem to agree, I suspect that you might both be
wrong. My antique SOED (1933) defines spring (noun) as:
"a hawser laid out to some fixed object to slew a vessel in any required
direction".
The same SOED gives no nautical definition for the verb 'to spring', but
I suspect that the noun derives from the act of springing, as suggested
by some of many definitions which include:
"to change place or position"
or
"to bend or deflect from a straight line"
or:
"to shift (a weapon etc) smartly from one position to another".
Just conjecture, mind you.

Ian

On 6 Aug, 22:04, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 22:01:56 +0100, "Wilson"

> >Except their task is actually the opposite: they hold the boat in a stable
> >position. No springiness is required...
>
> Wrong springs prevent "snatching"

Aren't you both only think of springs as mooring lines? They have
other uses when it comes to warping a vessel out of, or around,
harbour.

Ian

hello@kitty.com

On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 19:54:49 +0100, "Wilson" <WilsondotBolsover@btinternet.com>
wrote:

>Hi
>
>Does anybody know why springs are called springs please?
>
>Wilson
>

"spring" is a general term that denotes forces of either tension or pressure. It
gets applied to many things, but that is the root meaning.

Quilljar

I did read your post Martin, but thought I could add a small extra thought
LOL

--
Yrs Quilly

I'm not a complete idiot, parts of me are missing...

Dennis Pogson

Ian wrote:
> On 6 Aug, 22:04, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 22:01:56 +0100, "Wilson"
>
>>> Except their task is actually the opposite: they hold the boat in a
>>> stable position. No springiness is required...
>>
>> Wrong springs prevent "snatching"
>
> Aren't you both only think of springs as mooring lines? They have
> other uses when it comes to warping a vessel out of, or around,
> harbour.
>
> Ian

Yes, but then they become "warps", although we regularly refer to
"springing" our yacht out of a berth.

Actually the fore and aft springs do act like metal spiral springs in that
they will return the vessel to her position alongside the dock or pontoon if
she should be blown off by the wind or by human intervention.

Dennis.

chrisR

"Dennis Pogson" <dennis_nospampogson@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:TkVti.5107$mo.4788@newsfe4-> Yes, but then they become "warps",
although we regularly refer to
> "springing" our yacht out of a berth.
>
> Actually the fore and aft springs do act like metal spiral springs in that
> they will return the vessel to her position alongside the dock or pontoon
if
> she should be blown off by the wind or by human intervention.
>
> Dennis.
>
>

Yes, I use "fore" and "aft" springs as opposed to the OP's "bow" and
"stern" springs. I have a feeling after browsing the net, that bow and
stern springs may be US terminology.

But what are docklines from a cleat amidships to shore bollards positioned
ahead and astern of the vessel called?

I have heard them referred to as springs but they do seem to me to behave
differently, only restraining surge fore and aft but lacking the rotational
restraint of conventional springs.

Looking up my "country life" book of historical nautical terms
unsurprisingly "spring" had many meanings on square rigged ships according
to the particular context. In anchoring a spring could be connected from
the stern to the main anchor in order to turn the ship one way or the other.
Alongside a dock springs were used for moving or turning a ship. Doesn't
say where the word originated though.

ChrisR

Mike Sales

"chrisR" wrote
> Looking up my "country life" book of historical nautical terms
> unsurprisingly "spring" had many meanings on square rigged ships according
> to the particular context. In anchoring a spring could be connected from
> the stern to the main anchor in order to turn the ship one way or the
> other.
> Alongside a dock springs were used for moving or turning a ship. Doesn't
> say where the word originated though.
>
In one of C.S.Forester's books Hornblower aims a bomb ketch ( small ship
with huge fixed mortar) by putting a spring on the anchor cable, and
winching it in or out.
Last summer we held our anchored boat head to swell by this means. The
current otherwise was putting us across the swell, so that we rolled badly.
Mike Sales

chrisR

"Mike Sales" <mike.sales@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:46b8b9aa$0$1449$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.n et...
>
> "chrisR" wrote
In anchoring a spring could be connected from
> > the stern to the main anchor in order to turn the ship one way or the
> > other.
> Last summer we held our anchored boat head to swell by this means. The
> current otherwise was putting us across the swell, so that we rolled
badly.
> Mike Sales
>
>
How did you do that mike? Was it a line from the anchor shackle to a cleat
on one of the quarters?

ChrisR

Angus

On 7 Aug, 23:36, "chrisR" <ch...@yachtsmen.co.uk> wrote:
> "Mike Sales" <mike.sa...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:46b8b9aa$0$1449$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.n et...
>
> > "chrisR" wrote
>
> In anchoring a spring could be connected from> > the stern to the main anchor in order to turn the ship one way or the
> > > other.
> > Last summer we held our anchored boat head to swell by this means. The
> > current otherwise was putting us across the swell, so that we rolled
> badly.
> > Mike Sales
>
> How did you do that mike? Was it a line from the anchor shackle to a cleat
> on one of the quarters?
>
> ChrisR

Take a rope from the quarter, make it fast to the anchor cable with a
rolling hitch, take up the slack and make fast on the quarter. Then
slack off the anchor cable and the boat will slew round. Make fast the
anchor cable when you are at the required angle to the wind/swell.

HTH

Howard Anguish

chrisR

"Angus" <hang@hang.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1186526613.183418.238160@o61g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
> On 7 Aug, 23:36, "chrisR" <ch...@yachtsmen.co.uk> wrote:
> > "Mike Sales" <mike.sa...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> >
> > news:46b8b9aa$0$1449$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.n et...
> >
> > > "chrisR" wrote
> >
> > In anchoring a spring could be connected from> > the stern to the main
anchor in order to turn the ship one way or the
> > > > other.
> > > Last summer we held our anchored boat head to swell by this means. The
> > > current otherwise was putting us across the swell, so that we rolled
> > badly.
> > > Mike Sales
> >
> > How did you do that mike? Was it a line from the anchor shackle to a
cleat
> > on one of the quarters?
> >
> > ChrisR
>
> Take a rope from the quarter, make it fast to the anchor cable with a
> rolling hitch, take up the slack and make fast on the quarter. Then
> slack off the anchor cable and the boat will slew round. Make fast the
> anchor cable when you are at the required angle to the wind/swell.
>
> HTH
>
> Howard Anguish
>

Thanks for that simple explanation of the procedure

CHrisR

Ric

"Wilson" <WilsondotBolsover@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:coqdnet2oJ_m8yrbRVnyjAA@bt.com...
> Hi
>
> Does anybody know why springs are called springs please?

They were invented by Commodore Robert "Bouncy" Spring, of the Ancient and
Royal Lanarkshire Yacht Squadron in 1854.

Martin

On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:05:49 +0200, "Ric" <fraybentos@tincan.ra> wrote:

>
>"Wilson" <WilsondotBolsover@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>news:coqdnet2oJ_m8yrbRVnyjAA@bt.com...
>> Hi
>>
>> Does anybody know why springs are called springs please?
>
>They were invented by Commodore Robert "Bouncy" Spring, of the Ancient and
>Royal Lanarkshire Yacht Squadron in 1854.

His tender missus was Bouncy 2
--

Martin

toad

On 8 Aug, 10:05, "Ric" <frayben...@tincan.ra> wrote:
> "Wilson" <WilsondotBolso...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>
> news:coqdnet2oJ_m8yrbRVnyjAA@bt.com...
>
> > Hi
>
> > Does anybody know why springs are called springs please?
>
> They were invented by Commodore Robert "Bouncy" Spring, of the Ancient and
> Royal Lanarkshire Yacht Squadron in 1854.

Nope, I invented them as a youngster.

I tied my boat up and realized the wind was blowing it forwards. I
rigged what I later found was known as an aft spring and all was well.
It was only some time later I realized I wasn't the first to do it!

Quilljar

I am sorry, I have to correct you there. According to the RLY yearbook for
1854 the spelling of his name was Beoncay Sprynge.

--
Yrs Quilly

http://quilljar.users.btopenworld.com/gall.html

Mike Sales

"chrisR" wrote
> "Mike Sales"
>> Last summer we held our anchored boat head to swell by this means. The
>> current otherwise was putting us across the swell, so that we rolled
> badly.
> How did you do that mike? Was it a line from the anchor shackle to a
> cleat
> on one of the quarters?
>
As Angus writes. We also tried a "flopper stopper". That is, a weighted
drogue hung from the guyed out boom end. The spring method worked much
better.

Mike Sales

Ronald Raygun

chrisR wrote:

> Yes, I use "fore" and "aft" springs as opposed to the OP's "bow" and
> "stern" springs. I have a feeling after browsing the net, that bow and
> stern springs may be US terminology.

"Bow and stern" terminology has the advantage of being unambiguous.

A "bow spring" is the line which goes from the bows of the boat to a
point on the shore approximately abreast of the boat's stern.

With a "fore spring", it's not clear whether it's a line which leads
from the fore part of the boat (i.e. the bow) or which leads forward
from (the stern of) the boat.

> But what are docklines from a cleat amidships to shore bollards positioned
> ahead and astern of the vessel called?

I reckon "docklines" is definitely an American term. :-)

I would still call them springs. Their purpose, like that of springs
attached to (or near) bow and stern, is to arrest or limit motion of
the boat parallel to the pier or pontoon.

> I have heard them referred to as springs but they do seem to me to behave
> differently, only restraining surge fore and aft but lacking the
> rotational restraint of conventional springs.

Please explain further. What rotational constraint? All shore lines
constrain the point at which they are attached to the boat to lie
within a circle whose radius is the length of the line and whose
centre is the point at which they are attched to the shore. The
salient point is that springs normally lie at a shallow angle,
i.e. virtually parallel to the shore, and so in effect they prevent
the boat moving fore and aft. The "ordinary" bow and stern lines
generally lie as nearly as possible perpendicular to the shore and
so, together with fenders, prevent the boat moving in and out.

chrisR

"Ronald Raygun" <no.spam@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message
news:MmMvi.5860$cw7.5845@text.news.blueyonder.co.u k...
> chrisR wrote:
>
> > Yes, I use "fore" and "aft" springs as opposed to the OP's "bow" and
> > "stern" springs. I have a feeling after browsing the net, that bow and
> > stern springs may be US terminology.
>
> "Bow and stern" terminology has the advantage of being unambiguous.
>
> A "bow spring" is the line which goes from the bows of the boat to a
> point on the shore approximately abreast of the boat's stern.
>
> With a "fore spring", it's not clear whether it's a line which leads
> from the fore part of the boat (i.e. the bow) or which leads forward
> from (the stern of) the boat.
>
> > But what are docklines from a cleat amidships to shore bollards
positioned
> > ahead and astern of the vessel called?
>
> I reckon "docklines" is definitely an American term. :-)

I agree :-) I used "dockline" as an unabiguous adjective for a device that
may not be a "spring"

>
> I would still call them springs. Their purpose, like that of springs
> attached to (or near) bow and stern, is to arrest or limit motion of
> the boat parallel to the pier or pontoon.

I would use the term "spring" as it seems to be in common useage for center
cleated mehtod. But what would then be the "bow spring" or the "stern
spring" by your definition of where it is cleated? :-)

>
> > I have heard them referred to as springs but they do seem to me to
behave
> > differently, only restraining surge fore and aft but lacking the
> > rotational restraint of conventional springs.
>
> Please explain further. What rotational constraint?

Tied up alongside with a current flowing springs can be adjusted to control
the angular position of the vessel to the shore whilst in a similar
relative fore and aft position. ie rotation


>All shore lines
> constrain the point at which they are attached to the boat to lie
> within a circle whose radius is the length of the line and whose
> centre is the point at which they are attched to the shore. The
> salient point is that springs normally lie at a shallow angle,
> i.e. virtually parallel to the shore, and so in effect they prevent
> the boat moving fore and aft. The "ordinary" bow and stern lines

I think these were fairly long lines a significant distance forward and aft
respectively allowing for rise and fall of tide.

> generally lie as nearly as possible perpendicular to the shore and

I think these are "Breast ropes" which, if deployed, require periodic
adjustment in tidal waters.

> so, together with fenders, prevent the boat moving in and out.

ChrisR

Martin

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:56:40 +0100, "chrisR" <chris@yachtsmen.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"Ronald Raygun" <no.spam@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message
>news:MmMvi.5860$cw7.5845@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
>> chrisR wrote:
>>
>> > Yes, I use "fore" and "aft" springs as opposed to the OP's "bow" and
>> > "stern" springs. I have a feeling after browsing the net, that bow and
>> > stern springs may be US terminology.
>>
>> "Bow and stern" terminology has the advantage of being unambiguous.
>>
>> A "bow spring" is the line which goes from the bows of the boat to a
>> point on the shore approximately abreast of the boat's stern.
>>
>> With a "fore spring", it's not clear whether it's a line which leads
>> from the fore part of the boat (i.e. the bow) or which leads forward
>> from (the stern of) the boat.
>>
>> > But what are docklines from a cleat amidships to shore bollards
>positioned
>> > ahead and astern of the vessel called?
>>
>> I reckon "docklines" is definitely an American term. :-)
>
>I agree :-) I used "dockline" as an unabiguous adjective for a device that
>may not be a "spring"

"dockline" is a noun.

--

Martin

chrisR

"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:c0a0c3pmvu4mvpbtgdhijhjh61ngnug3jh@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:56:40 +0100, "chrisR" <chris@yachtsmen.co.uk>
wrote:
>
> >
> >"Ronald Raygun" <no.spam@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message
> >news:MmMvi.5860$cw7.5845@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> >> chrisR wrote:
> >>
> >> > Yes, I use "fore" and "aft" springs as opposed to the OP's "bow" and
> >> > "stern" springs. I have a feeling after browsing the net, that bow
and
> >> > stern springs may be US terminology.
> >>
> >> "Bow and stern" terminology has the advantage of being unambiguous.
> >>
> >> A "bow spring" is the line which goes from the bows of the boat to a
> >> point on the shore approximately abreast of the boat's stern.
> >>
> >> With a "fore spring", it's not clear whether it's a line which leads
> >> from the fore part of the boat (i.e. the bow) or which leads forward
> >> from (the stern of) the boat.
> >>
> >> > But what are docklines from a cleat amidships to shore bollards
> >positioned
> >> > ahead and astern of the vessel called?
> >>
> >> I reckon "docklines" is definitely an American term. :-)
> >
> >I agree :-) I used "dockline" as an unabiguous adjective for a device
that
> >may not be a "spring"
>
> "dockline" is a noun.
>
> --
>
> Martin
>


how silly :-)

ChrisR

Keith

In message <c0a0c3pmvu4mvpbtgdhijhjh61ngnug3jh@4ax.com>, Martin
<me@address.invalid> writes
>On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:56:40 +0100, "chrisR" <chris@yachtsmen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> I reckon "docklines" is definitely an American term. :-)
>>
>>I agree :-) I used "dockline" as an unabiguous adjective for a device that
>>may not be a "spring"
>
>"dockline" is a noun.
>
"I use my dockline warp as a spring when necessary"

Discuss at you leisure..
--
Keith replace nospam with ilf0rd