Liferaft recommendations?

Trying to choose a liferaft for our Jeanneau 34.2, used for mainly coastal
sailing and occasional channel crossing, rarely more than four people
aboard. Main (easily available) options seem to be Plastimo, Seago (very
cheap) or XM.

Does anyone have any views on the most suitable? Advice appreciated.

Regards

Martin

Check the test of those very models in PBO (May)
there's still videos on their website at
http://www.ybw.com/pbo/video/liferafts/

In summary, of the cheap liferafts, they favoured the seago.

........which pleased me because I had already bought one.

"Martin Lewy" <martin.lewy@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:Z7WdnUlGt-oODSrbRVnyigA@bt.com...
> Trying to choose a liferaft for our Jeanneau 34.2, used for mainly coastal
> sailing and occasional channel crossing, rarely more than four people
> aboard. Main (easily available) options seem to be Plastimo, Seago (very
> cheap) or XM.
>
> Does anyone have any views on the most suitable? Advice appreciated.
>
> Regards
>
> Martin
>
>

Martin Lewy wrote:

> Trying to choose a liferaft for our Jeanneau 34.2, used for mainly coastal
> sailing and occasional channel crossing, rarely more than four people
> aboard. Main (easily available) options seem to be Plastimo, Seago (very
> cheap) or XM.
>
> Does anyone have any views on the most suitable? Advice appreciated.
>
> Regards
>
> Martin

For J I got the 4 man Viking which seemed to be good middle ground between
the cheapies and the expensive.

Its easy to pick the right raft.... Just imagine being in one raft and
whether you would be thinking you should have bought the better one.

D{
"Martin Lewy" <martin.lewy@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:Z7WdnUlGt-oODSrbRVnyigA@bt.com...
> Trying to choose a liferaft for our Jeanneau 34.2, used for mainly coastal
> sailing and occasional channel crossing, rarely more than four people
> aboard. Main (easily available) options seem to be Plastimo, Seago (very
> cheap) or XM.
>
> Does anyone have any views on the most suitable? Advice appreciated.
>
> Regards
>
> Martin
>
>

On 7 Aug, 12:58, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
wrote:

> Its easy to pick the right raft.... Just imagine being in one raft and
> whether you would be thinking you should have bought the better one.

Which would lead to everyone towing a Severn Class Lifeboat around
with them.

Why? Doesn't everybody do that?

--
Yrs Quilly

http://quilljar.users.btopenworld.com/gall.html

>
> Which would lead to everyone towing a Severn Class Lifeboat around
> with them.
>

On 7 Aug, 16:16, "Quilljar" <N...@home.today> wrote:

> > Which would lead to everyone towing a Severn Class Lifeboat around
> > with them
>
> Why? Doesn't everybody do that?

I used to, but one day I imagined being in it and realized I'd prefer
this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_%28yacht%29

It's a hell of a tow for my Leisure 17 though!

> I used to, but one day I imagined being in it and realized I'd prefer
> this.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_%28yacht%29
>
> It's a hell of a tow for my Leisure 17 though!

Pah. There's no liferaft mentioned for that yacht. Unless
you count the helicopter of course....

TonyB

"toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1186489115.773855.305150@g4g2000hsf.googlegro ups.com...
> On 7 Aug, 12:58, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
> wrote:
>
>> Its easy to pick the right raft.... Just imagine being in one raft and
>> whether you would be thinking you should have bought the better one.
>
> Which would lead to everyone towing a Severn Class Lifeboat around
> with them.
>

Or never leave land perhaps. But seriously, buying one that is too small
because of budget restraints or one that is under rated for the same reason
is going to be nothing but a dissapointment and downright scary if ever it
needs to be used.

No one ever wants to have to use a raft. But when the S#!t hits the fan, its
too late to re-consider the options.

DP

"toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1186489115.773855.305150@g4g2000hsf.googlegro ups.com...
> On 7 Aug, 12:58, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
> wrote:
>
>> Its easy to pick the right raft.... Just imagine being in one raft and
>> whether you would be thinking you should have bought the better one.
>
> Which would lead to everyone towing a Severn Class Lifeboat around
> with them.

Hmmm..... Severn Class are getting a bit dated now. Maybe it would be better
to wait for an upgrade. Rather like buying a computer
really.....................aarrrgh!

On 7 Aug, 23:50, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
wrote:
> "toad" <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:1186489115.773855.305150@g4g2000hsf.googlegro ups.com...
>
> > On 7 Aug, 12:58, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Its easy to pick the right raft.... Just imagine being in one raft and
> >> whether you would be thinking you should have bought the better one.
>
> > Which would lead to everyone towing a Severn Class Lifeboat around
> > with them.
>
> Or never leave land perhaps. But seriously, buying one that is too small
> because of budget restraints or one that is under rated for the same reason
> is going to be nothing but a dissapointment and downright scary if ever it
> needs to be used.

Apparently it's better to go for one that's too small because the
weight of the occupants is essential for stability. So in a 6 man boat
you're better off with a 4 man raft than an 8.

I guess that assumes a short duration in the raft. Fair enough, in UK
waters if you've thought through your kit you probably won't be in it
for more than 2 hours.

On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 09:04:15 +0100, "Duncan Heenan"
<pleasenospammersduncanheenan@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:1186489115.773855.305150@g4g2000hsf.googlegr oups.com...
>> On 7 Aug, 12:58, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Its easy to pick the right raft.... Just imagine being in one raft and
>>> whether you would be thinking you should have bought the better one.
>>
>> Which would lead to everyone towing a Severn Class Lifeboat around
>> with them.
>
>Hmmm..... Severn Class are getting a bit dated now. Maybe it would be better
>to wait for an upgrade. Rather like buying a computer
>really.....................aarrrgh!
>

We've come a long way since MS Raft 3.1
http://www.all-art.org/neoclasscism/374.jpg
--

Martin

On 8 Aug, 10:14, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 09:04:15 +0100, "Duncan Heenan"
>
>
>
>
>
> <pleasenospammersduncanhee...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >"toad" <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:1186489115.773855.305150@g4g2000hsf.googlegr oups.com...
> >> On 7 Aug, 12:58, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> Its easy to pick the right raft.... Just imagine being in one raft and
> >>> whether you would be thinking you should have bought the better one.
>
> >> Which would lead to everyone towing a Severn Class Lifeboat around
> >> with them.
>
> >Hmmm..... Severn Class are getting a bit dated now. Maybe it would be better
> >to wait for an upgrade. Rather like buying a computer
> >really.....................aarrrgh!
>
> We've come a long way since MS Raft 3.1http://www.all-art.org/neoclasscism/374.jpg

The Pogues!

"toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1186563975.185733.294950@o61g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
> On 7 Aug, 23:50, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
> wrote:
>> "toad" <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1186489115.773855.305150@g4g2000hsf.googlegro ups.com...
>>
>> > On 7 Aug, 12:58, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >> Its easy to pick the right raft.... Just imagine being in one raft
>> >> and
>> >> whether you would be thinking you should have bought the better one.
>>
>> > Which would lead to everyone towing a Severn Class Lifeboat around
>> > with them.
>>
>> Or never leave land perhaps. But seriously, buying one that is too small
>> because of budget restraints or one that is under rated for the same
>> reason
>> is going to be nothing but a dissapointment and downright scary if ever
>> it
>> needs to be used.
>
> Apparently it's better to go for one that's too small because the
> weight of the occupants is essential for stability. So in a 6 man boat
> you're better off with a 4 man raft than an 8.
>
> I guess that assumes a short duration in the raft. Fair enough, in UK
> waters if you've thought through your kit you probably won't be in it
> for more than 2 hours.
>

Almost true.... In a six man boat, you want a 6 man raft. Not a 4 or an 8.
People still have to fit in there and not have to hang on in the water.

There are other considerations to make when you use that train of thought.
The difficulty in getting the last people on board (particularly if they are
in the water) and the sever lack of rations etc- some rafts have as little
as 0.125 litres of water per person while some have 1 litre pp. You will
also be short on seasickness tablets. Let alone the strength of the raft-
six 85 kilo men will weigh over half a tonne.

On a good day it may only take two hours to locate you. But they still have
to get you out of the water. If you have to wait for a ship it can take
hours. However, on a bad day (winds 50 knots and 5 meter seas) it will take
much much longer to locate and recover you.

Planning for the best is not why we buy liferafts in the first place. Its
because we are preparing for the worst.

DP

On 9 Aug, 00:32, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
wrote:
> "toad" <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:1186563975.185733.294950@o61g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 7 Aug, 23:50, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
> > wrote:
> >> "toad" <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> >>news:1186489115.773855.305150@g4g2000hsf.googleg roups.com...
>
> >> > On 7 Aug, 12:58, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
> >> > wrote:
>
> >> >> Its easy to pick the right raft.... Just imagine being in one raft
> >> >> and
> >> >> whether you would be thinking you should have bought the better one.
>
> >> > Which would lead to everyone towing a Severn Class Lifeboat around
> >> > with them.
>
> >> Or never leave land perhaps. But seriously, buying one that is too small
> >> because of budget restraints or one that is under rated for the same
> >> reason
> >> is going to be nothing but a dissapointment and downright scary if ever
> >> it
> >> needs to be used.
>
> > Apparently it's better to go for one that's too small because the
> > weight of the occupants is essential for stability. So in a 6 man boat
> > you're better off with a 4 man raft than an 8.
>
> > I guess that assumes a short duration in the raft. Fair enough, in UK
> > waters if you've thought through your kit you probably won't be in it
> > for more than 2 hours.
>
> Almost true.... In a six man boat, you want a 6 man raft. Not a 4 or an 8.
> People still have to fit in there and not have to hang on in the water.

The number of people crewing boats will vary. It's not practical to
have a different life raft for the day's your out with the girlfriend,
the days you're out with two mates and the days when you are racing
with 8 people on board. Of course, where possible the right number is
best.

> There are other considerations to make when you use that train of thought.

It's not _my_ train of thought but it did seem reasonable at the time.

> The difficulty in getting the last people on board (particularly if they are
> in the water) and the sever lack of rations etc- some rafts have as little
> as 0.125 litres of water per person while some have 1 litre pp. You will
> also be short on seasickness tablets. Let alone the strength of the raft-
> six 85 kilo men will weigh over half a tonne.

In UK waters with an effective way of alerting others to your
situation I doubt sea sickness tablets water and rations are a
consideration. Away from speedy assistance I wonder if a liferaft will
really do the job anyway. Every account I've ever read of long
durations at sea in liferafts the raft has been a constant source of
problems breakages and suffers the nightmare problem of being
comlpetely imobile in the water.

> On a good day it may only take two hours to locate you. But they still have
> to get you out of the water. If you have to wait for a ship it can take
> hours. However, on a bad day (winds 50 knots and 5 meter seas) it will take
> much much longer to locate and recover you.

I'm talking about UK sailing. If you've got an effective way of
alerting other's you really aren't going to be in long. 50kt winds and
big seas are just a normal working day for air sea rescue.

Clearly in the Southern Ocean your problems are rather different.

> Planning for the best is not why we buy liferafts in the first place. Its
> because we are preparing for the worst.

Yet in your list of liferaft essentials you make no mention of an
effective way of seeking help. Water and seasickness tablets won't
save your life. They won't even prolong it by much. An epirb and
handheld VHF might.

"toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1186645707.159417.146760@22g2000hsm.googlegro ups.com...

Snip
>
> I'm talking about UK sailing. If you've got an effective way of
> alerting other's you really aren't going to be in long. 50kt winds and
> big seas are just a normal working day for air sea rescue.

Assuming youre the only one they are looking for.

> Clearly in the Southern Ocean your problems are rather different.

As in the of the North Atlantic. Although the shipping levels are somewhat
higher the severity of the weather and capabilities of ships to retrieve
people is still very limited in those conditions.

Snip
>
> Yet in your list of liferaft essentials you make no mention of an
> effective way of seeking help. Water and seasickness tablets won't
> save your life. They won't even prolong it by much. An epirb and
> handheld VHF might.

I didnt make a list of essentials. I was talking about a couple of items
that come standard and the variations between them. If your hit in the
night and have no time to get the grab bag. All you have is the rations on
board the raft. Of course in a perfect world we would also take a personal
helicopter and a pub ;-)

DP

"toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1186645707.159417.146760@22g2000hsm.googlegro ups.com...

Snipped again to make reading easier.

>> There are other considerations to make when you use that train of
>> thought.
>
> It's not _my_ train of thought but it did seem reasonable at the time.
>
>> The difficulty in getting the last people on board (particularly if they
>> are
>> in the water) and the sever lack of rations etc- some rafts have as
>> little
>> as 0.125 litres of water per person while some have 1 litre pp. You will
>> also be short on seasickness tablets. Let alone the strength of the
>> raft-
>> six 85 kilo men will weigh over half a tonne.
>
> In UK waters with an effective way of alerting others to your
> situation I doubt sea sickness tablets water and rations are a
> consideration. Away from speedy assistance I wonder if a liferaft will
> really do the job anyway. Every account I've ever read of long
> durations at sea in liferafts the raft has been a constant source of
> problems breakages and suffers the nightmare problem of being
> comlpetely imobile in the water.
>

Absolutely. Liferaft storyies are horrific and occasionally involve the loss
of one of the occupants. That was my point. That the more equiped the raft
the better.

Though heres an interesting point. They almost always have a fishing line
and no bait. With good reason. Its there to keep you occupied.

DP

On 9 Aug, 10:13, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
wrote:
> "toad" <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:1186645707.159417.146760@22g2000hsm.googlegro ups.com...
>
> > I'm talking about UK sailing. If you've got an effective way of
> > alerting other's you really aren't going to be in long. 50kt winds and
> > big seas are just a normal working day for air sea rescue.
>
> Assuming youre the only one they are looking for.

No, even in mass disasters like the Fastnet and SHYR nobody was out
long enough to die for lack or water.

> > Clearly in the Southern Ocean your problems are rather different.
>
> As in the of the North Atlantic. Although the shipping levels are somewhat
> higher the severity of the weather and capabilities of ships to retrieve
> people is still very limited in those conditions.

As I made clear, my comments were strictly limited to UK coastal
waters. Once you're out of S&R range you could be in for a very long
wait. Clearly you and I do very different sailing.

On 9 Aug, 10:17, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
wrote:
> "toad" <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:1186645707.159417.146760@22g2000hsm.googlegro ups.com...
>
> Snipped again to make reading easier.
>
>
>
>
>
> >> There are other considerations to make when you use that train of
> >> thought.
>
> > It's not _my_ train of thought but it did seem reasonable at the time.
>
> >> The difficulty in getting the last people on board (particularly if they
> >> are
> >> in the water) and the sever lack of rations etc- some rafts have as
> >> little
> >> as 0.125 litres of water per person while some have 1 litre pp. You will
> >> also be short on seasickness tablets. Let alone the strength of the
> >> raft-
> >> six 85 kilo men will weigh over half a tonne.
>
> > In UK waters with an effective way of alerting others to your
> > situation I doubt sea sickness tablets water and rations are a
> > consideration. Away from speedy assistance I wonder if a liferaft will
> > really do the job anyway. Every account I've ever read of long
> > durations at sea in liferafts the raft has been a constant source of
> > problems breakages and suffers the nightmare problem of being
> > comlpetely imobile in the water.
>
> Absolutely. Liferaft storyies are horrific and occasionally involve the loss
> of one of the occupants. That was my point. That the more equiped the raft
> the better.

....but your definition of well equiped included water and excluded a
way to summon help. Access to fresh water in UK waters is not going to
make a difference to your chances of survival if you have an effective
method to summon help.

> Though heres an interesting point. They almost always have a fishing line
> and no bait. With good reason. Its there to keep you occupied.

I think keeping in regular contact with rescuers on the handheld,
keeping dry and warm and ensuring I was visible to rescuers would be a
more productive way to keep occupied, but you're welcome to get cold
and soaked while dangling something sharp off an inflatable if you so
wish!

"toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1186652260.530571.58240@d30g2000prg.googlegro ups.com...
> On 9 Aug, 10:17, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
> wrote:
>> "toad" <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1186645707.159417.146760@22g2000hsm.googlegro ups.com...
>>
>> Snipped again to make reading easier.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >> There are other considerations to make when you use that train of
>> >> thought.
>>
>> > It's not _my_ train of thought but it did seem reasonable at the time.
>>
>> >> The difficulty in getting the last people on board (particularly if
>> >> they
>> >> are
>> >> in the water) and the sever lack of rations etc- some rafts have as
>> >> little
>> >> as 0.125 litres of water per person while some have 1 litre pp. You
>> >> will
>> >> also be short on seasickness tablets. Let alone the strength of the
>> >> raft-
>> >> six 85 kilo men will weigh over half a tonne.
>>
>> > In UK waters with an effective way of alerting others to your
>> > situation I doubt sea sickness tablets water and rations are a
>> > consideration. Away from speedy assistance I wonder if a liferaft will
>> > really do the job anyway. Every account I've ever read of long
>> > durations at sea in liferafts the raft has been a constant source of
>> > problems breakages and suffers the nightmare problem of being
>> > comlpetely imobile in the water.
>>
>> Absolutely. Liferaft storyies are horrific and occasionally involve the
>> loss
>> of one of the occupants. That was my point. That the more equiped the
>> raft
>> the better.
>
> ...but your definition of well equiped included water and excluded a
> way to summon help. Access to fresh water in UK waters is not going to
> make a difference to your chances of survival if you have an effective
> method to summon help.

I assume you have never shopped for a life raft before. They dont come with
Radios installed! You dont buy a raft then pack it yourself. It comes pre
packed. A part of the purchasing decision needs to be based on whats inside
it.

>
>> Though heres an interesting point. They almost always have a fishing line
>> and no bait. With good reason. Its there to keep you occupied.
>
> I think keeping in regular contact with rescuers on the handheld,
> keeping dry and warm and ensuring I was visible to rescuers would be a
> more productive way to keep occupied, but you're welcome to get cold
> and soaked while dangling something sharp off an inflatable if you so
> wish!
>

Right.. you seem to missunderstand that liferafts are not sold with Sat
Phones and VHF/HF installed. No, not even a cell phone!

My point. Once again. is that the more equiped the raft the better. Simple
really. Put as many radios as you can into your grab bag. But there wont be
any installed the raft.

So, Now we have that cleared up.. Put yourself back onto that raft. The grab
bag went down with the yacht. What ya gunna do now? Look at the Rafts
Inventory. Thats all ya got.

DP

"D Parker" <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote in message
news:46bb10ef$0$22570$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>
> "toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1186652260.530571.58240@d30g2000prg.googlegro ups.com...
> > On 9 Aug, 10:17, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
> > wrote:
> >> "toad" <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> >>
> >> news:1186645707.159417.146760@22g2000hsm.googlegro ups.com...
> >>
> >> Snipped again to make reading easier.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >> There are other considerations to make when you use that train of
> >> >> thought.
> >>
> >> > It's not _my_ train of thought but it did seem reasonable at the
time.
> >>
> >> >> The difficulty in getting the last people on board (particularly if
> >> >> they
> >> >> are
> >> >> in the water) and the sever lack of rations etc- some rafts have as
> >> >> little
> >> >> as 0.125 litres of water per person while some have 1 litre pp. You
> >> >> will
> >> >> also be short on seasickness tablets. Let alone the strength of the
> >> >> raft-
> >> >> six 85 kilo men will weigh over half a tonne.
> >>
> >> > In UK waters with an effective way of alerting others to your
> >> > situation I doubt sea sickness tablets water and rations are a
> >> > consideration. Away from speedy assistance I wonder if a liferaft
will
> >> > really do the job anyway. Every account I've ever read of long
> >> > durations at sea in liferafts the raft has been a constant source of
> >> > problems breakages and suffers the nightmare problem of being
> >> > comlpetely imobile in the water.
> >>
> >> Absolutely. Liferaft storyies are horrific and occasionally involve the
> >> loss
> >> of one of the occupants. That was my point. That the more equiped the
> >> raft
> >> the better.
> >
> > ...but your definition of well equiped included water and excluded a
> > way to summon help. Access to fresh water in UK waters is not going to
> > make a difference to your chances of survival if you have an effective
> > method to summon help.
>
> I assume you have never shopped for a life raft before. They dont come
with
> Radios installed! You dont buy a raft then pack it yourself. It comes pre
> packed. A part of the purchasing decision needs to be based on whats
inside
> it.
>
>
> >
> >> Though heres an interesting point. They almost always have a fishing
line
> >> and no bait. With good reason. Its there to keep you occupied.
> >
> > I think keeping in regular contact with rescuers on the handheld,
> > keeping dry and warm and ensuring I was visible to rescuers would be a
> > more productive way to keep occupied, but you're welcome to get cold
> > and soaked while dangling something sharp off an inflatable if you so
> > wish!
> >
>
> Right.. you seem to missunderstand that liferafts are not sold with Sat
> Phones and VHF/HF installed. No, not even a cell phone!
>
> My point. Once again. is that the more equiped the raft the better. Simple
> really. Put as many radios as you can into your grab bag. But there wont
be
> any installed the raft.
>
> So, Now we have that cleared up.. Put yourself back onto that raft. The
grab
> bag went down with the yacht. What ya gunna do now? Look at the Rafts
> Inventory. Thats all ya got.
>
>
> DP
>

Come on chaps we all know it just boils down to cash. Most of us have a
limited budget and have to balance cost against risk and benefit. By
comparison to yachtsmen of the 1960's we have the most amazing rescue
facilities in uk waters and we can give our correct position by dsc radio in
a few seconds.
This is rec.UK sailing and in our waters an epirb and vhf must come high on
the list, maybe even before a liferaft if you have a reasonable dinghy. As
for choice of a liferaft a cheap one is better than nothing and could be a
lifesaver. They must be fit for purpose so you can always return it if is
no good!

ChrisR

On 9 Aug, 14:05, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
wrote:
> "toad" <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:1186652260.530571.58240@d30g2000prg.googlegro ups.com...
>
> > On 9 Aug, 10:17, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
> > wrote:
> >> "toad" <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> >>news:1186645707.159417.146760@22g2000hsm.googleg roups.com...
>
> >> Snipped again to make reading easier.
>
> >> >> There are other considerations to make when you use that train of
> >> >> thought.
>
> >> > It's not _my_ train of thought but it did seem reasonable at the time.
>
> >> >> The difficulty in getting the last people on board (particularly if
> >> >> they
> >> >> are
> >> >> in the water) and the sever lack of rations etc- some rafts have as
> >> >> little
> >> >> as 0.125 litres of water per person while some have 1 litre pp. You
> >> >> will
> >> >> also be short on seasickness tablets. Let alone the strength of the
> >> >> raft-
> >> >> six 85 kilo men will weigh over half a tonne.
>
> >> > In UK waters with an effective way of alerting others to your
> >> > situation I doubt sea sickness tablets water and rations are a
> >> > consideration. Away from speedy assistance I wonder if a liferaft will
> >> > really do the job anyway. Every account I've ever read of long
> >> > durations at sea in liferafts the raft has been a constant source of
> >> > problems breakages and suffers the nightmare problem of being
> >> > comlpetely imobile in the water.
>
> >> Absolutely. Liferaft storyies are horrific and occasionally involve the
> >> loss
> >> of one of the occupants. That was my point. That the more equiped the
> >> raft
> >> the better.
>
> > ...but your definition of well equiped included water and excluded a
> > way to summon help. Access to fresh water in UK waters is not going to
> > make a difference to your chances of survival if you have an effective
> > method to summon help.
>
> I assume you have never shopped for a life raft before. They dont come with
> Radios installed! You dont buy a raft then pack it yourself. It comes pre
> packed. A part of the purchasing decision needs to be based on whats inside
> it.

You can pretty much ask them to put what you like in. Failing that at
service time they will put whatever you like inso in the worst case
yuo might have to ask for a service on the day you buy it just to get
the kit you need in. I've never tried but I imagine you can service
yourself and re-pack yourself with whatever kit you choose, but I've
never tried.

However for safety reasons, you do _need_ an effective method to
summon help, and the fact that you didn't get one in the box as
standard is going to be of little comfort.

> >> Though heres an interesting point. They almost always have a fishing line
> >> and no bait. With good reason. Its there to keep you occupied.
>
> > I think keeping in regular contact with rescuers on the handheld,
> > keeping dry and warm and ensuring I was visible to rescuers would be a
> > more productive way to keep occupied, but you're welcome to get cold
> > and soaked while dangling something sharp off an inflatable if you so
> > wish!
>
> Right.. you seem to missunderstand that liferafts are not sold with Sat
> Phones and VHF/HF installed. No, not even a cell phone!

However for safety reasons, you do _need_ an effective method to
summon help, and the fact that you didn't get one in the box as
standard is going to be of little comfort.

> My point. Once again. is that the more equiped the raft the better. Simple
> really. Put as many radios as you can into your grab bag. But there wont be
> any installed the raft.

> So, Now we have that cleared up.. Put yourself back onto that raft. The grab
> bag went down with the yacht. What ya gunna do now? Look at the Rafts
> Inventory. Thats all ya got.

You will need an effective way of alerting help. Without that your
chances are _much_ reduced.

How you achieve that it up to you.

The argument that you should manage without essential kit just because
it doesn't come free as standard is just beyond my comprehension. The
argument that you should mitigate the danger of managing without
essential kit with non-essential kit is insanity.

Hopefully you'll never have to manage on the scant kit you get in a
liferaft as standard, but if you do you'll be very sorry you didn't
have a method of alerting help.

On 9 Aug, 14:31, "chrisR" <ch...@yachtsmen.co.uk> wrote:

> Come on chaps we all know it just boils down to cash. Most of us have a
> limited budget and have to balance cost against risk and benefit. By
> comparison to yachtsmen of the 1960's we have the most amazing rescue
> facilities in uk waters and we can give our correct position by dsc radio in
> a few seconds.
> This is rec.UK sailing and in our waters an epirb and vhf must come high on
> the list, maybe even before a liferaft

Very wise words.

On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:31:03 +0100, "chrisR" <chris@yachtsmen.co.uk> wrote:

>This is rec.UK sailing

No it isn't.
--

Martin

Have you ever been in a raft, let's say practising?
Liferaft seem to be very small inside for the number of people sold for.
I guess they design some people sitting in the middle of the circle, not just around.
So in a 6 man boat you're definitely better off with a 8 man raft than an 4.
JaC

-----

> Apparently it's better to go for one that's too small because the weight of the occupants is essential for stability.
> So in a 6 man boat you're better off with a 4 man raft than an 8.

In message
<46badaab$0$22602$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>, D Parker
<nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.?.invalid> writes
>
>
>I didnt make a list of essentials. I was talking about a couple of items
>that come standard and the variations between them. If your hit in the
>night and have no time to get the grab bag. All you have is the rations on
>board the raft. Of course in a perfect world we would also take a personal
>helicopter and a pub ;-)
>

As it happens, all single engined aircraft more than 3 miles from land
(err, that's over water, not height) are required to carry a liferaft.

That's aviation law (or it was, when I used to fly to Hilversum twice a
week)

In our perfect would we'd better make that chopper twin engined, or
you'll face the same dilemma of which liferaft to buy...

As for pubs, you don't need one. Call HMC&R and order your 'bar box' -
all duty free.

(Dunno if anyone's tried it but there's a test case to be tried for
ordering a duty free bar box from Southend Airport and having it
delivered to your ocean-going yacht on the East Coast.... they do it
with armament and ammunition.)
--
Keith replace nospam with ilf0rd

"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:e78mb3haett5fsb52g5lnmccgd9bna3dlr@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:31:03 +0100, "chrisR" <chris@yachtsmen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> >This is rec.UK sailing
>
> No it isn't.
> --
>
> Martin
>
Oh no it isn't :-P

ChrisR

"toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1186666333.145431.322250@r34g2000hsd.googlegr oups.com...
> On 9 Aug, 14:05, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
> wrote:
>> "toad" <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1186652260.530571.58240@d30g2000prg.googlegro ups.com...
>>
>> > On 9 Aug, 10:17, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.>
>> > wrote:
>> >> "toad" <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:1186645707.159417.146760@22g2000hsm.googleg roups.com...
>>
>> >> Snipped again to make reading easier.
>>
>> >> >> There are other considerations to make when you use that train of
>> >> >> thought.
>>
>> >> > It's not _my_ train of thought but it did seem reasonable at the
>> >> > time.
>>
>> >> >> The difficulty in getting the last people on board (particularly if
>> >> >> they
>> >> >> are
>> >> >> in the water) and the sever lack of rations etc- some rafts have as
>> >> >> little
>> >> >> as 0.125 litres of water per person while some have 1 litre pp. You
>> >> >> will
>> >> >> also be short on seasickness tablets. Let alone the strength of
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> raft-
>> >> >> six 85 kilo men will weigh over half a tonne.
>>
>> >> > In UK waters with an effective way of alerting others to your
>> >> > situation I doubt sea sickness tablets water and rations are a
>> >> > consideration. Away from speedy assistance I wonder if a liferaft
>> >> > will
>> >> > really do the job anyway. Every account I've ever read of long
>> >> > durations at sea in liferafts the raft has been a constant source of
>> >> > problems breakages and suffers the nightmare problem of being
>> >> > comlpetely imobile in the water.
>>
>> >> Absolutely. Liferaft storyies are horrific and occasionally involve
>> >> the
>> >> loss
>> >> of one of the occupants. That was my point. That the more equiped the
>> >> raft
>> >> the better.
>>
>> > ...but your definition of well equiped included water and excluded a
>> > way to summon help. Access to fresh water in UK waters is not going to
>> > make a difference to your chances of survival if you have an effective
>> > method to summon help.
>>
>> I assume you have never shopped for a life raft before. They dont come
>> with
>> Radios installed! You dont buy a raft then pack it yourself. It comes
>> pre
>> packed. A part of the purchasing decision needs to be based on whats
>> inside
>> it.
>
> You can pretty much ask them to put what you like in. Failing that at
> service time they will put whatever you like inso in the worst case
> yuo might have to ask for a service on the day you buy it just to get
> the kit you need in. I've never tried but I imagine you can service
> yourself and re-pack yourself with whatever kit you choose, but I've
> never tried.
>
> However for safety reasons, you do _need_ an effective method to
> summon help, and the fact that you didn't get one in the box as
> standard is going to be of little comfort.
>
>> >> Though heres an interesting point. They almost always have a fishing
>> >> line
>> >> and no bait. With good reason. Its there to keep you occupied.
>>
>> > I think keeping in regular contact with rescuers on the handheld,
>> > keeping dry and warm and ensuring I was visible to rescuers would be a
>> > more productive way to keep occupied, but you're welcome to get cold
>> > and soaked while dangling something sharp off an inflatable if you so
>> > wish!
>>
>> Right.. you seem to missunderstand that liferafts are not sold with Sat
>> Phones and VHF/HF installed. No, not even a cell phone!
>
> However for safety reasons, you do _need_ an effective method to
> summon help, and the fact that you didn't get one in the box as
> standard is going to be of little comfort.
>
>> My point. Once again. is that the more equiped the raft the better.
>> Simple
>> really. Put as many radios as you can into your grab bag. But there wont
>> be
>> any installed the raft.
>
>> So, Now we have that cleared up.. Put yourself back onto that raft. The
>> grab
>> bag went down with the yacht. What ya gunna do now? Look at the Rafts
>> Inventory. Thats all ya got.
>
> You will need an effective way of alerting help. Without that your
> chances are _much_ reduced.
>
> How you achieve that it up to you.
>
> The argument that you should manage without essential kit just because
> it doesn't come free as standard is just beyond my comprehension. The
> argument that you should mitigate the danger of managing without
> essential kit with non-essential kit is insanity.
>
> Hopefully you'll never have to manage on the scant kit you get in a
> liferaft as standard, but if you do you'll be very sorry you didn't
> have a method of alerting help.
>

I NEVER said you "should" manage on a standard kit. I am talking about what
is provided and the most likely scenario. Sheesh! Even most SOLAS ( do you
know what they are?) rafts come without a 406 let alone any other form of
communication aside from a heliograph, and some extra flares.

sigh..

DP

DP

Experience from STCW training, pool conditions.
BTW you may need your liferaft not only in a rough gale/storm, but i.e after collision in calm seas.
The last liferaft I know of use is the morning night of 23rd July 2007 N of Oland (Sweden).
Bavaria 410 'Blue Dream", wind 5-6°B (up to 12 m/s), sea 3°, rudder started it's 3D movements and making a hole in a
hull causing a leak, the crew decided to disembark to liferaft.
5-10 minutes after that the yacht sunk.
AFAIK they called a rescue by cellular phone SMS from the raft rather than unsuccesful radio call from the yacht (firs
with voice, than with DSC), 15 Nm from ashore.
They got a serious seasick. on the raft.
JaC

-----

> Can you explain your case for erring on the large size so I can make up my own mind.

	#1
Martin Lewy	Liferaft recommendations? Trying to choose a liferaft for our Jeanneau 34.2, used for mainly coastal sailing and occasional channel crossing, rarely more than four people aboard. Main (easily available) options seem to be Plastimo, Seago (very cheap) or XM. Does anyone have any views on the most suitable? Advice appreciated. Regards Martin

	#2
Richard	Re: Liferaft recommendations? Check the test of those very models in PBO (May) there's still videos on their website at http://www.ybw.com/pbo/video/liferafts/ In summary, of the cheap liferafts, they favoured the seago. ........which pleased me because I had already bought one. "Martin Lewy" <martin.lewy@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:Z7WdnUlGt-oODSrbRVnyigA@bt.com... > Trying to choose a liferaft for our Jeanneau 34.2, used for mainly coastal > sailing and occasional channel crossing, rarely more than four people > aboard. Main (easily available) options seem to be Plastimo, Seago (very > cheap) or XM. > > Does anyone have any views on the most suitable? Advice appreciated. > > Regards > > Martin > >

	#3
Tony of Judicious	Re: Liferaft recommendations? Martin Lewy wrote: > Trying to choose a liferaft for our Jeanneau 34.2, used for mainly coastal > sailing and occasional channel crossing, rarely more than four people > aboard. Main (easily available) options seem to be Plastimo, Seago (very > cheap) or XM. > > Does anyone have any views on the most suitable? Advice appreciated. > > Regards > > Martin For J I got the 4 man Viking which seemed to be good middle ground between the cheapies and the expensive.

	#4
D Parker	Re: Liferaft recommendations? Its easy to pick the right raft.... Just imagine being in one raft and whether you would be thinking you should have bought the better one. D{ "Martin Lewy" <martin.lewy@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:Z7WdnUlGt-oODSrbRVnyigA@bt.com... > Trying to choose a liferaft for our Jeanneau 34.2, used for mainly coastal > sailing and occasional channel crossing, rarely more than four people > aboard. Main (easily available) options seem to be Plastimo, Seago (very > cheap) or XM. > > Does anyone have any views on the most suitable? Advice appreciated. > > Regards > > Martin > >

	#5
toad	Re: Liferaft recommendations? On 7 Aug, 12:58, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote: > Its easy to pick the right raft.... Just imagine being in one raft and > whether you would be thinking you should have bought the better one. Which would lead to everyone towing a Severn Class Lifeboat around with them.

	#6
Quilljar	Re: Liferaft recommendations? Why? Doesn't everybody do that? -- Yrs Quilly http://quilljar.users.btopenworld.com/gall.html > > Which would lead to everyone towing a Severn Class Lifeboat around > with them. >

	#8
TonyB	Re: Liferaft recommendations? > I used to, but one day I imagined being in it and realized I'd prefer > this. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_%28yacht%29 > > It's a hell of a tow for my Leisure 17 though! Pah. There's no liferaft mentioned for that yacht. Unless you count the helicopter of course.... TonyB

	#9
D Parker	Re: Liferaft recommendations? "toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:1186489115.773855.305150@g4g2000hsf.googlegro ups.com... > On 7 Aug, 12:58, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.> > wrote: > >> Its easy to pick the right raft.... Just imagine being in one raft and >> whether you would be thinking you should have bought the better one. > > Which would lead to everyone towing a Severn Class Lifeboat around > with them. > Or never leave land perhaps. But seriously, buying one that is too small because of budget restraints or one that is under rated for the same reason is going to be nothing but a dissapointment and downright scary if ever it needs to be used. No one ever wants to have to use a raft. But when the S#!t hits the fan, its too late to re-consider the options. DP

	#10
Duncan Heenan	Re: Liferaft recommendations? "toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:1186489115.773855.305150@g4g2000hsf.googlegro ups.com... > On 7 Aug, 12:58, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.> > wrote: > >> Its easy to pick the right raft.... Just imagine being in one raft and >> whether you would be thinking you should have bought the better one. > > Which would lead to everyone towing a Severn Class Lifeboat around > with them. Hmmm..... Severn Class are getting a bit dated now. Maybe it would be better to wait for an upgrade. Rather like buying a computer really.....................aarrrgh!

	#12
Martin	Re: Liferaft recommendations? On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 09:04:15 +0100, "Duncan Heenan" <pleasenospammersduncanheenan@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: > >"toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message >news:1186489115.773855.305150@g4g2000hsf.googlegr oups.com... >> On 7 Aug, 12:58, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.> >> wrote: >> >>> Its easy to pick the right raft.... Just imagine being in one raft and >>> whether you would be thinking you should have bought the better one. >> >> Which would lead to everyone towing a Severn Class Lifeboat around >> with them. > >Hmmm..... Severn Class are getting a bit dated now. Maybe it would be better >to wait for an upgrade. Rather like buying a computer >really.....................aarrrgh! > We've come a long way since MS Raft 3.1 http://www.all-art.org/neoclasscism/374.jpg -- Martin

	#13
toad	Re: Liferaft recommendations? On 8 Aug, 10:14, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote: > On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 09:04:15 +0100, "Duncan Heenan" > > > > > > <pleasenospammersduncanhee...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: > > >"toad" <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message > >news:1186489115.773855.305150@g4g2000hsf.googlegr oups.com... > >> On 7 Aug, 12:58, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.> > >> wrote: > > >>> Its easy to pick the right raft.... Just imagine being in one raft and > >>> whether you would be thinking you should have bought the better one. > > >> Which would lead to everyone towing a Severn Class Lifeboat around > >> with them. > > >Hmmm..... Severn Class are getting a bit dated now. Maybe it would be better > >to wait for an upgrade. Rather like buying a computer > >really.....................aarrrgh! > > We've come a long way since MS Raft 3.1http://www.all-art.org/neoclasscism/374.jpg The Pogues!

	#15
toad	Re: Liferaft recommendations? On 9 Aug, 00:32, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote: > "toad" <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message > > news:1186563975.185733.294950@o61g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com... > > > > > > > On 7 Aug, 23:50, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.> > > wrote: > >> "toad" <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message > > >>news:1186489115.773855.305150@g4g2000hsf.googleg roups.com... > > >> > On 7 Aug, 12:58, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.> > >> > wrote: > > >> >> Its easy to pick the right raft.... Just imagine being in one raft > >> >> and > >> >> whether you would be thinking you should have bought the better one. > > >> > Which would lead to everyone towing a Severn Class Lifeboat around > >> > with them. > > >> Or never leave land perhaps. But seriously, buying one that is too small > >> because of budget restraints or one that is under rated for the same > >> reason > >> is going to be nothing but a dissapointment and downright scary if ever > >> it > >> needs to be used. > > > Apparently it's better to go for one that's too small because the > > weight of the occupants is essential for stability. So in a 6 man boat > > you're better off with a 4 man raft than an 8. > > > I guess that assumes a short duration in the raft. Fair enough, in UK > > waters if you've thought through your kit you probably won't be in it > > for more than 2 hours. > > Almost true.... In a six man boat, you want a 6 man raft. Not a 4 or an 8. > People still have to fit in there and not have to hang on in the water. The number of people crewing boats will vary. It's not practical to have a different life raft for the day's your out with the girlfriend, the days you're out with two mates and the days when you are racing with 8 people on board. Of course, where possible the right number is best. > There are other considerations to make when you use that train of thought. It's not _my_ train of thought but it did seem reasonable at the time. > The difficulty in getting the last people on board (particularly if they are > in the water) and the sever lack of rations etc- some rafts have as little > as 0.125 litres of water per person while some have 1 litre pp. You will > also be short on seasickness tablets. Let alone the strength of the raft- > six 85 kilo men will weigh over half a tonne. In UK waters with an effective way of alerting others to your situation I doubt sea sickness tablets water and rations are a consideration. Away from speedy assistance I wonder if a liferaft will really do the job anyway. Every account I've ever read of long durations at sea in liferafts the raft has been a constant source of problems breakages and suffers the nightmare problem of being comlpetely imobile in the water. > On a good day it may only take two hours to locate you. But they still have > to get you out of the water. If you have to wait for a ship it can take > hours. However, on a bad day (winds 50 knots and 5 meter seas) it will take > much much longer to locate and recover you. I'm talking about UK sailing. If you've got an effective way of alerting other's you really aren't going to be in long. 50kt winds and big seas are just a normal working day for air sea rescue. Clearly in the Southern Ocean your problems are rather different. > Planning for the best is not why we buy liferafts in the first place. Its > because we are preparing for the worst. Yet in your list of liferaft essentials you make no mention of an effective way of seeking help. Water and seasickness tablets won't save your life. They won't even prolong it by much. An epirb and handheld VHF might.

	#21
chrisR	Re: Liferaft recommendations? "D Parker" <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote in message news:46bb10ef$0$22570$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... > > "toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message > news:1186652260.530571.58240@d30g2000prg.googlegro ups.com... > > On 9 Aug, 10:17, "D Parker" <nospamozskip...@hotmailnospam.com.> > > wrote: > >> "toad" <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message > >> > >> news:1186645707.159417.146760@22g2000hsm.googlegro ups.com... > >> > >> Snipped again to make reading easier. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> There are other considerations to make when you use that train of > >> >> thought. > >> > >> > It's not _my_ train of thought but it did seem reasonable at the time. > >> > >> >> The difficulty in getting the last people on board (particularly if > >> >> they > >> >> are > >> >> in the water) and the sever lack of rations etc- some rafts have as > >> >> little > >> >> as 0.125 litres of water per person while some have 1 litre pp. You > >> >> will > >> >> also be short on seasickness tablets. Let alone the strength of the > >> >> raft- > >> >> six 85 kilo men will weigh over half a tonne. > >> > >> > In UK waters with an effective way of alerting others to your > >> > situation I doubt sea sickness tablets water and rations are a > >> > consideration. Away from speedy assistance I wonder if a liferaft will > >> > really do the job anyway. Every account I've ever read of long > >> > durations at sea in liferafts the raft has been a constant source of > >> > problems breakages and suffers the nightmare problem of being > >> > comlpetely imobile in the water. > >> > >> Absolutely. Liferaft storyies are horrific and occasionally involve the > >> loss > >> of one of the occupants. That was my point. That the more equiped the > >> raft > >> the better. > > > > ...but your definition of well equiped included water and excluded a > > way to summon help. Access to fresh water in UK waters is not going to > > make a difference to your chances of survival if you have an effective > > method to summon help. > > I assume you have never shopped for a life raft before. They dont come with > Radios installed! You dont buy a raft then pack it yourself. It comes pre > packed. A part of the purchasing decision needs to be based on whats inside > it. > > > > > >> Though heres an interesting point. They almost always have a fishing line > >> and no bait. With good reason. Its there to keep you occupied. > > > > I think keeping in regular contact with rescuers on the handheld, > > keeping dry and warm and ensuring I was visible to rescuers would be a > > more productive way to keep occupied, but you're welcome to get cold > > and soaked while dangling something sharp off an inflatable if you so > > wish! > > > > Right.. you seem to missunderstand that liferafts are not sold with Sat > Phones and VHF/HF installed. No, not even a cell phone! > > My point. Once again. is that the more equiped the raft the better. Simple > really. Put as many radios as you can into your grab bag. But there wont be > any installed the raft. > > So, Now we have that cleared up.. Put yourself back onto that raft. The grab > bag went down with the yacht. What ya gunna do now? Look at the Rafts > Inventory. Thats all ya got. > > > DP > Come on chaps we all know it just boils down to cash. Most of us have a limited budget and have to balance cost against risk and benefit. By comparison to yachtsmen of the 1960's we have the most amazing rescue facilities in uk waters and we can give our correct position by dsc radio in a few seconds. This is rec.UK sailing and in our waters an epirb and vhf must come high on the list, maybe even before a liferaft if you have a reasonable dinghy. As for choice of a liferaft a cheap one is better than nothing and could be a lifesaver. They must be fit for purpose so you can always return it if is no good! ChrisR

	#24
Martin	Re: Liferaft recommendations? On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:31:03 +0100, "chrisR" <chris@yachtsmen.co.uk> wrote: >This is rec.UK sailing No it isn't. -- Martin

	#25
666	Re: Liferaft recommendations? Have you ever been in a raft, let's say practising? Liferaft seem to be very small inside for the number of people sold for. I guess they design some people sitting in the middle of the circle, not just around. So in a 6 man boat you're definitely better off with a 8 man raft than an 4. JaC ----- > Apparently it's better to go for one that's too small because the weight of the occupants is essential for stability. > So in a 6 man boat you're better off with a 4 man raft than an 8.

	#26
Keith	Re: Liferaft recommendations? In message <46badaab$0$22602$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>, D Parker <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.?.invalid> writes > > >I didnt make a list of essentials. I was talking about a couple of items >that come standard and the variations between them. If your hit in the >night and have no time to get the grab bag. All you have is the rations on >board the raft. Of course in a perfect world we would also take a personal >helicopter and a pub ;-) > As it happens, all single engined aircraft more than 3 miles from land (err, that's over water, not height) are required to carry a liferaft. That's aviation law (or it was, when I used to fly to Hilversum twice a week) In our perfect would we'd better make that chopper twin engined, or you'll face the same dilemma of which liferaft to buy... As for pubs, you don't need one. Call HMC&R and order your 'bar box' - all duty free. (Dunno if anyone's tried it but there's a test case to be tried for ordering a duty free bar box from Southend Airport and having it delivered to your ocean-going yacht on the East Coast.... they do it with armament and ammunition.) -- Keith replace nospam with ilf0rd

	#27
chrisR	Re: Liferaft recommendations? "Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message news:e78mb3haett5fsb52g5lnmccgd9bna3dlr@4ax.com... > On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:31:03 +0100, "chrisR" <chris@yachtsmen.co.uk> wrote: > > > >This is rec.UK sailing > > No it isn't. > -- > > Martin > Oh no it isn't :-P ChrisR