| #1 | |
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Bilge Keel Suggestions
Hi All,
In the market for a bigger boat, am currently considering a Westerly Berwick, any advice appreciated. I want a 6 berth family boat that must be able to take the ground so Bilge Keel is ideal. Required for cruising UK & Europe so would prefer something heavier that would be more comfortable in a Force 8/9 than for speed. Constraints are only have 25k to play with for the initial purchase. Any ideas? |
| #2 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
Call me old-fashioned, but I would die happy if I had a Westerly Berwick,
even better though would be a Conway because it is a ketch and can be sailed simply single handed on the two smaller sails. A tough almost unbreakable cruising ship with plenty of room for six. -- Yrs Quilly http://quilljar.users.btopenworld.com/gall.html "Phasmatis" <news@l19.co.uk> wrote in message news:46dae067$0$13934$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk... > Hi All, > > In the market for a bigger boat, am currently considering a Westerly > Berwick, any advice appreciated. > > I want a 6 berth family boat that must be able to take the ground so Bilge > Keel is ideal. > > Required for cruising UK & Europe so would prefer something heavier that > would be more comfortable in a Force 8/9 than for speed. > > Constraints are only have 25k to play with for the initial purchase. > > Any ideas? > > > > > |
| #3 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
"Quilljar" <Not@home.today> wrote in message news:QI2dnaccBOF-mUbbnZ2dnUVZ8v-dnZ2d@bt.com... > Call me old-fashioned, but I would die happy if I had a Westerly Berwick, > even better > though would be a Conway because it is a ketch and can be sailed simply > single handed on the two smaller sails. A tough almost unbreakable > cruising ship with plenty of room for six. Maybe consider a Catamaran too? TonyB |
| #4 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
On Sun, 2 Sep 2007 17:10:14 +0100, "Phasmatis" <news@l19.co.uk> wrote:
>Hi All, > >In the market for a bigger boat, am currently considering a Westerly >Berwick, any advice appreciated. > >I want a 6 berth family boat that must be able to take the ground so Bilge >Keel is ideal. > >Required for cruising UK & Europe so would prefer something heavier that >would be more comfortable in a Force 8/9 than for speed. > >Constraints are only have 25k to play with for the initial purchase. Something like a Westerly 33 or Discus would be excellent choice but probably out of price range (Conways etc even more so) although you might get a tatty one but not common with bilge keels. Pentland, Berwick would be a good choice. I dont believe anything would be comfortable in F8/9, except maybe QE2. I know of a nice Pentland going for about 20k, if it hasn't been sold. Ian |
| #5 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
Never sailed cats so will probably stick to what I know best.
"TonyB" <hatt.j.bennett@tesco.net> wrote in message news:bPudncDcD5KhiEbbnZ2dnUVZ8vidnZ2d@bt.com... > > "Quilljar" <Not@home.today> wrote in message > news:QI2dnaccBOF-mUbbnZ2dnUVZ8v-dnZ2d@bt.com... >> Call me old-fashioned, but I would die happy if I had a Westerly Berwick, >> even better >> though would be a Conway because it is a ketch and can be sailed simply >> single handed on the two smaller sails. A tough almost unbreakable >> cruising ship with plenty of room for six. > > > Maybe consider a Catamaran too? > TonyB |
| #6 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
> I dont believe anything would be comfortable in F8/9, except maybe
> QE2. I have 0ver 4k miles logged in F8 or higher but must admit, not conditions for family cruising. |
| #7 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
> Call me old-fashioned, but I would die happy if I had a Westerly Berwick,
Many thanks Quilly, I will take that as a recommendation that the Berwick is a positive option. |
| #8 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
On Sun, 2 Sep 2007 21:15:11 +0100, "Phasmatis" <news@l19.co.uk> wrote:
>> I dont believe anything would be comfortable in F8/9, except maybe >> QE2. > >I have 0ver 4k miles logged in F8 or higher but must admit, not conditions >for family cruising. Been round the southern ocean then? Ian |
| #9 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
"Phasmatis" <news@l19.co.uk> wrote in message news:46dae067$0$13934$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk... > Hi All, > > In the market for a bigger boat, am currently considering a Westerly > Berwick, any advice appreciated. > > I want a 6 berth family boat that must be able to take the ground so Bilge > Keel is ideal. > > Required for cruising UK & Europe so would prefer something heavier that > would be more comfortable in a Force 8/9 than for speed. > > Constraints are only have 25k to play with for the initial purchase. > > Any ideas? > Why a bilge keeler? I am sure you would also find plenty of long keel boats that would suit your cruising needs also. They dont point and are slower - generally. The are harder to get off the bottom if grounded. However they are easy to careen. But thats only once a year at best. DP |
| #10 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
My Pentland slept 6 but was really only big enough for two to live aboard
for more than a week. The Conway/Berwick is about 4ft longer and as a result considerably larger inside. Probably the toughest range ever made by the old Westerly company -- Yrs Quilly http://quilljar.users.btopenworld.com/gall.html <ian@atsandelldot.codot.uk> wrote in message news:h25md3hqd620f5jvljggencs0nh01ni3o9@4ax.com... > On Sun, 2 Sep 2007 17:10:14 +0100, "Phasmatis" <news@l19.co.uk> wrote: > >>Hi All, >> >>In the market for a bigger boat, am currently considering a Westerly >>Berwick, any advice appreciated. >> >>I want a 6 berth family boat that must be able to take the ground so Bilge >>Keel is ideal. >> >>Required for cruising UK & Europe so would prefer something heavier that >>would be more comfortable in a Force 8/9 than for speed. >> >>Constraints are only have 25k to play with for the initial purchase. > > Something like a Westerly 33 or Discus would be excellent choice but > probably out of price range (Conways etc even more so) although you > might get a tatty one but not common with bilge keels. Pentland, > Berwick would be a good choice. > > I dont believe anything would be comfortable in F8/9, except maybe > QE2. > > I know of a nice Pentland going for about 20k, if it hasn't been sold. > > Ian |
| #11 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:55:00 +1000, "D Parker"
<nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote: > >"Phasmatis" <news@l19.co.uk> wrote in message >news:46dae067$0$13934$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk.. . >> Hi All, >> >> In the market for a bigger boat, am currently considering a Westerly >> Berwick, any advice appreciated. >> >> I want a 6 berth family boat that must be able to take the ground so Bilge >> Keel is ideal. >> >> Required for cruising UK & Europe so would prefer something heavier that >> would be more comfortable in a Force 8/9 than for speed. >> >> Constraints are only have 25k to play with for the initial purchase. >> >> Any ideas? >> > >Why a bilge keeler? I am sure you would also find plenty of long keel boats >that would suit your cruising needs also. > >They dont point and are slower - generally. >The are harder to get off the bottom if grounded. Bilge keel boats are easier to get off when grounded. I have never had a problem getting mine off when I have grounded it. -- Martin |
| #12 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
On Sun, 2 Sep 2007 23:28:07 +0100, "Quilljar" <Not@home.today> wrote:
>My Pentland slept 6 but was really only big enough for two to live aboard >for more than a week. I dont really understand this. I have spent more than a week with four of us on boats smaller than a Pentland with no problem. >The Conway/Berwick is about 4ft longer and as a result >considerably larger inside. Probably the toughest range ever made by the old >Westerly company The Berwick is the same hull as the Pentland (Pentland, Berwick, Longbow, Renown). The Conway is same hull as Medway, Solway and Galway. The 33/Discuss is plenty big enough for 6 to live on for 3 weeks at a time. Ian |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message news:jnemd3lah5qdbo6rfi4dk923tsrrut2dl5@4ax.com... > On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:55:00 +1000, "D Parker" > <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote: > >> >>"Phasmatis" <news@l19.co.uk> wrote in message >>news:46dae067$0$13934$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk. .. >>> Hi All, >>> >>> In the market for a bigger boat, am currently considering a Westerly >>> Berwick, any advice appreciated. >>> >>> I want a 6 berth family boat that must be able to take the ground so >>> Bilge >>> Keel is ideal. >>> >>> Required for cruising UK & Europe so would prefer something heavier that >>> would be more comfortable in a Force 8/9 than for speed. >>> >>> Constraints are only have 25k to play with for the initial purchase. >>> >>> Any ideas? >>> >> >>Why a bilge keeler? I am sure you would also find plenty of long keel >>boats >>that would suit your cruising needs also. >> >>They dont point and are slower - generally. >>The are harder to get off the bottom if grounded. > > Bilge keel boats are easier to get off when grounded. I have never had a > problem > getting mine off when I have grounded it. > > -- > > Martin Perhaps you have been lucky. My experience is that they will drive into a muddy bottom, as any other boat would, and then are all but impossible to heal over to enable an easy "reverse out" DP |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
"D Parker" <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote in message news:46db452e$0$28515$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... > > "Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message > news:jnemd3lah5qdbo6rfi4dk923tsrrut2dl5@4ax.com... > > On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:55:00 +1000, "D Parker" > > <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote: > > > >> > >>"Phasmatis" <news@l19.co.uk> wrote in message > >>news:46dae067$0$13934$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk. .. > >>> Hi All, > >>> > >>> In the market for a bigger boat, am currently considering a Westerly > >>> Berwick, any advice appreciated. > >>> > >>> I want a 6 berth family boat that must be able to take the ground so > >>> Bilge > >>> Keel is ideal. > >>> > >>> Required for cruising UK & Europe so would prefer something heavier that > >>> would be more comfortable in a Force 8/9 than for speed. > >>> > >>> Constraints are only have 25k to play with for the initial purchase. > >>> > >>> Any ideas? > >>> > >> > >>Why a bilge keeler? I am sure you would also find plenty of long keel > >>boats > >>that would suit your cruising needs also. > >> > >>They dont point and are slower - generally. > >>The are harder to get off the bottom if grounded. > > > > Bilge keel boats are easier to get off when grounded. I have never had a > > problem > > getting mine off when I have grounded it. > > > > -- > > > > Martin > > Perhaps you have been lucky. My experience is that they will drive into a > muddy bottom, as any other boat would, and then are all but impossible to > heal over to enable an easy "reverse out" > > DP > > My experience is similar to Martins. I was fairly confident I would get off the mud if I grounded my old Westerly 30 BK. Bilge keel boats with inboard engines often have spade rudders and have the ability to "walk" the keels out of trouble. Engine full astern to wash away the mud and waggling the rudder would usually free the boat. Obviously being blown onto a lee shore on a falling tide is a different proposition for any yacht as having grounded it is already too late to deploy a kedge before being stuck fast due to the falling tide. Chris |
| #15 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
"chrisR" <chris@yachtsmen.co.uk> wrote in message news:46db50d4$1@nntp.onyx.net... > > "D Parker" <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote in message > news:46db452e$0$28515$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... >> >> "Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message >> news:jnemd3lah5qdbo6rfi4dk923tsrrut2dl5@4ax.com... >> > On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:55:00 +1000, "D Parker" >> > <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote: >> > >> >> >> >>"Phasmatis" <news@l19.co.uk> wrote in message >> >>news:46dae067$0$13934$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk. .. >> >>> Hi All, >> >>> >> >>> In the market for a bigger boat, am currently considering a Westerly >> >>> Berwick, any advice appreciated. >> >>> >> >>> I want a 6 berth family boat that must be able to take the ground so >> >>> Bilge >> >>> Keel is ideal. >> >>> >> >>> Required for cruising UK & Europe so would prefer something heavier > that >> >>> would be more comfortable in a Force 8/9 than for speed. >> >>> >> >>> Constraints are only have 25k to play with for the initial purchase. >> >>> >> >>> Any ideas? >> >>> >> >> >> >>Why a bilge keeler? I am sure you would also find plenty of long keel >> >>boats >> >>that would suit your cruising needs also. >> >> >> >>They dont point and are slower - generally. >> >>The are harder to get off the bottom if grounded. >> > >> > Bilge keel boats are easier to get off when grounded. I have never had >> > a >> > problem >> > getting mine off when I have grounded it. >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Martin >> >> Perhaps you have been lucky. My experience is that they will drive into a >> muddy bottom, as any other boat would, and then are all but impossible to >> heal over to enable an easy "reverse out" >> >> DP >> >> > > My experience is similar to Martins. I was fairly confident I would get > off > the mud if I grounded my old Westerly 30 BK. Bilge keel boats with > inboard > engines often have spade rudders and have the ability to "walk" the keels > out of trouble. Engine full astern to wash away the mud and waggling the > rudder would usually free the boat. Obviously being blown onto a lee > shore > on a falling tide is a different proposition for any yacht as having > grounded it is already too late to deploy a kedge before being stuck fast > due to the falling tide. > > Chris Thats the scenario I am talking about. You dont have the ability of healing the boat over to assist in shortening the draft temporarily. Wing keel boats also suffer a simimar dilema. DP |
| #16 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 09:18:18 +1000, "D Parker"
<nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote: > >"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message >news:jnemd3lah5qdbo6rfi4dk923tsrrut2dl5@4ax.com.. . >> On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:55:00 +1000, "D Parker" >> <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote: >> >>> >>>"Phasmatis" <news@l19.co.uk> wrote in message >>>news:46dae067$0$13934$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk.. . >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> In the market for a bigger boat, am currently considering a Westerly >>>> Berwick, any advice appreciated. >>>> >>>> I want a 6 berth family boat that must be able to take the ground so >>>> Bilge >>>> Keel is ideal. >>>> >>>> Required for cruising UK & Europe so would prefer something heavier that >>>> would be more comfortable in a Force 8/9 than for speed. >>>> >>>> Constraints are only have 25k to play with for the initial purchase. >>>> >>>> Any ideas? >>>> >>> >>>Why a bilge keeler? I am sure you would also find plenty of long keel >>>boats >>>that would suit your cruising needs also. >>> >>>They dont point and are slower - generally. >>>The are harder to get off the bottom if grounded. >> >> Bilge keel boats are easier to get off when grounded. I have never had a >> problem >> getting mine off when I have grounded it. >> >> -- >> >> Martin > >Perhaps you have been lucky. My experience is that they will drive into a >muddy bottom, as any other boat would, and then are all but impossible to >heal over to enable an easy "reverse out" heel? :-) I do just reverse out. I haven't just been lucky, boats go aground locally every weekend, I have yet to see a bilge keel boat that has needed a tow to get off. I have had my boat and sailed these waters since 1976, by now if it was just luck it would be obvious. -- Martin |
| #17 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 17:42:35 +1000, "D Parker"
<nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote: > >"chrisR" <chris@yachtsmen.co.uk> wrote in message >news:46db50d4$1@nntp.onyx.net... >> >> "D Parker" <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote in message >> news:46db452e$0$28515$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... >>> >>> "Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message >>> news:jnemd3lah5qdbo6rfi4dk923tsrrut2dl5@4ax.com... >>> > On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:55:00 +1000, "D Parker" >>> > <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote: >>> > >>> >> >>> >>"Phasmatis" <news@l19.co.uk> wrote in message >>> >>news:46dae067$0$13934$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk. .. >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> >>> >>> In the market for a bigger boat, am currently considering a Westerly >>> >>> Berwick, any advice appreciated. >>> >>> >>> >>> I want a 6 berth family boat that must be able to take the ground so >>> >>> Bilge >>> >>> Keel is ideal. >>> >>> >>> >>> Required for cruising UK & Europe so would prefer something heavier >> that >>> >>> would be more comfortable in a Force 8/9 than for speed. >>> >>> >>> >>> Constraints are only have 25k to play with for the initial purchase. >>> >>> >>> >>> Any ideas? >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>Why a bilge keeler? I am sure you would also find plenty of long keel >>> >>boats >>> >>that would suit your cruising needs also. >>> >> >>> >>They dont point and are slower - generally. >>> >>The are harder to get off the bottom if grounded. >>> > >>> > Bilge keel boats are easier to get off when grounded. I have never had >>> > a >>> > problem >>> > getting mine off when I have grounded it. >>> > >>> > -- >>> > >>> > Martin >>> >>> Perhaps you have been lucky. My experience is that they will drive into a >>> muddy bottom, as any other boat would, and then are all but impossible to >>> heal over to enable an easy "reverse out" >>> >>> DP >>> >>> >> >> My experience is similar to Martins. I was fairly confident I would get >> off >> the mud if I grounded my old Westerly 30 BK. Bilge keel boats with >> inboard >> engines often have spade rudders and have the ability to "walk" the keels >> out of trouble. Engine full astern to wash away the mud and waggling the >> rudder would usually free the boat. Obviously being blown onto a lee >> shore >> on a falling tide is a different proposition for any yacht as having >> grounded it is already too late to deploy a kedge before being stuck fast >> due to the falling tide. >> >> Chris > >Thats the scenario I am talking about. You dont have the ability of healing >the boat over to assist in shortening the draft temporarily. Wing keel >boats also suffer a simimar dilema. Bilge keel boats are left on drying mud moorings. I don't recall an epidemic of sunk boats. Keels occasionally fall off but that's something else :-) -- Martin |
| #18 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
I have a drying mooring in Wales and don't wish to mess on with legs or pay
more cash for a deeper mooring. I must be lucky as I have never grounded but I have pushed my luck a little and bumped over the bar into the Beaulieu River and Newtown Creek in the Solent. > Why a bilge keeler? I am sure you would also find plenty of long keel > boats that would suit your cruising needs also. > > They dont point and are slower - generally. > The are harder to get off the bottom if grounded. > > However they are easy to careen. But thats only once a year at best. > > DP > |
| #19 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
"D Parker" <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote in message news:46dbbb5f$0$28546$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... > > "chrisR" <chris@yachtsmen.co.uk> wrote in message > news:46db50d4$1@nntp.onyx.net... > > > > "D Parker" <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote in message > > news:46db452e$0$28515$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... > >> > >> "Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message > >> news:jnemd3lah5qdbo6rfi4dk923tsrrut2dl5@4ax.com... > >> > On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:55:00 +1000, "D Parker" > >> > <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote: > >> > > >> >> > >> >>"Phasmatis" <news@l19.co.uk> wrote in message > >> >>news:46dae067$0$13934$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk. .. > >> >>> Hi All, > >> >>> > >> >>> In the market for a bigger boat, am currently considering a Westerly > >> >>> Berwick, any advice appreciated. > >> >>> > >> >>> I want a 6 berth family boat that must be able to take the ground so > >> >>> Bilge > >> >>> Keel is ideal. > >> >>> > >> >>> Required for cruising UK & Europe so would prefer something heavier > > that > >> >>> would be more comfortable in a Force 8/9 than for speed. > >> >>> > >> >>> Constraints are only have 25k to play with for the initial purchase. > >> >>> > >> >>> Any ideas? > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >>Why a bilge keeler? I am sure you would also find plenty of long keel > >> >>boats > >> >>that would suit your cruising needs also. > >> >> > >> >>They dont point and are slower - generally. > >> >>The are harder to get off the bottom if grounded. > >> > > >> > Bilge keel boats are easier to get off when grounded. I have never had > >> > a > >> > problem > >> > getting mine off when I have grounded it. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > > >> > Martin > >> > >> Perhaps you have been lucky. My experience is that they will drive into a > >> muddy bottom, as any other boat would, and then are all but impossible to > >> heal over to enable an easy "reverse out" > >> > >> DP > >> > >> > > > > My experience is similar to Martins. I was fairly confident I would get > > off > > the mud if I grounded my old Westerly 30 BK. Bilge keel boats with > > inboard > > engines often have spade rudders and have the ability to "walk" the keels > > out of trouble. Engine full astern to wash away the mud and waggling the > > rudder would usually free the boat. Obviously being blown onto a lee > > shore > > on a falling tide is a different proposition for any yacht as having > > grounded it is already too late to deploy a kedge before being stuck fast > > due to the falling tide. > > > > Chris > > Thats the scenario I am talking about. You dont have the ability of healing > the boat over to assist in shortening the draft temporarily. Wing keel > boats also suffer a simimar dilema. > > DP > > Could you please explain how to heel a yacht which has gone aground to refloat her as I do not fully understand the procedure for successful execution. ChrisR |
| #20 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
There are different ways to do this, my immediate response would be to get
all the crew to sit on the boom, failing that take the anchor out in a dinghy and hope the windlass will assist. > Could you please explain how to heel a yacht which has gone aground to > refloat her as I do not fully understand the procedure for successful > execution. > > ChrisR > > |
| #21 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message news:39hnd3p8tanlk77tcsqum9a7sn6u2c9orc@4ax.com... > On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 17:42:35 +1000, "D Parker" > <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote: > >> >>"chrisR" <chris@yachtsmen.co.uk> wrote in message >>news:46db50d4$1@nntp.onyx.net... >>> >>> "D Parker" <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote in message >>> news:46db452e$0$28515$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... >>>> >>>> "Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message >>>> news:jnemd3lah5qdbo6rfi4dk923tsrrut2dl5@4ax.com... >>>> > On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:55:00 +1000, "D Parker" >>>> > <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>"Phasmatis" <news@l19.co.uk> wrote in message >>>> >>news:46dae067$0$13934$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk. .. >>>> >>> Hi All, >>>> >>> >>>> >>> In the market for a bigger boat, am currently considering a >>>> >>> Westerly >>>> >>> Berwick, any advice appreciated. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> I want a 6 berth family boat that must be able to take the ground >>>> >>> so >>>> >>> Bilge >>>> >>> Keel is ideal. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Required for cruising UK & Europe so would prefer something heavier >>> that >>>> >>> would be more comfortable in a Force 8/9 than for speed. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Constraints are only have 25k to play with for the initial >>>> >>> purchase. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Any ideas? >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>Why a bilge keeler? I am sure you would also find plenty of long keel >>>> >>boats >>>> >>that would suit your cruising needs also. >>>> >> >>>> >>They dont point and are slower - generally. >>>> >>The are harder to get off the bottom if grounded. >>>> > >>>> > Bilge keel boats are easier to get off when grounded. I have never >>>> > had >>>> > a >>>> > problem >>>> > getting mine off when I have grounded it. >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > >>>> > Martin >>>> >>>> Perhaps you have been lucky. My experience is that they will drive into >>>> a >>>> muddy bottom, as any other boat would, and then are all but impossible >>>> to >>>> heal over to enable an easy "reverse out" >>>> >>>> DP >>>> >>>> >>> >>> My experience is similar to Martins. I was fairly confident I would get >>> off >>> the mud if I grounded my old Westerly 30 BK. Bilge keel boats with >>> inboard >>> engines often have spade rudders and have the ability to "walk" the >>> keels >>> out of trouble. Engine full astern to wash away the mud and waggling >>> the >>> rudder would usually free the boat. Obviously being blown onto a lee >>> shore >>> on a falling tide is a different proposition for any yacht as having >>> grounded it is already too late to deploy a kedge before being stuck >>> fast >>> due to the falling tide. >>> >>> Chris >> >>Thats the scenario I am talking about. You dont have the ability of >>healing >>the boat over to assist in shortening the draft temporarily. Wing keel >>boats also suffer a simimar dilema. > > Bilge keel boats are left on drying mud moorings. I don't recall an > epidemic of > sunk boats. Keels occasionally fall off but that's something else :-) > -- > yeh.. they are also careened very successfully.. but thats something else too.. DP |
| #22 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
"chrisR" <chris@yachtsmen.co.uk> wrote in message news:46dbf8c8$1@nntp.onyx.net... > > "D Parker" <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote in message > news:46dbbb5f$0$28546$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... >> >> "chrisR" <chris@yachtsmen.co.uk> wrote in message >> news:46db50d4$1@nntp.onyx.net... >> > >> > "D Parker" <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote in message >> > news:46db452e$0$28515$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... >> >> >> >> "Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message >> >> news:jnemd3lah5qdbo6rfi4dk923tsrrut2dl5@4ax.com... >> >> > On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:55:00 +1000, "D Parker" >> >> > <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >>"Phasmatis" <news@l19.co.uk> wrote in message >> >> >>news:46dae067$0$13934$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk. .. >> >> >>> Hi All, >> >> >>> >> >> >>> In the market for a bigger boat, am currently considering a > Westerly >> >> >>> Berwick, any advice appreciated. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> I want a 6 berth family boat that must be able to take the ground > so >> >> >>> Bilge >> >> >>> Keel is ideal. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Required for cruising UK & Europe so would prefer something >> >> >>> heavier >> > that >> >> >>> would be more comfortable in a Force 8/9 than for speed. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Constraints are only have 25k to play with for the initial > purchase. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Any ideas? >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >>Why a bilge keeler? I am sure you would also find plenty of long >> >> >>keel >> >> >>boats >> >> >>that would suit your cruising needs also. >> >> >> >> >> >>They dont point and are slower - generally. >> >> >>The are harder to get off the bottom if grounded. >> >> > >> >> > Bilge keel boats are easier to get off when grounded. I have never > had >> >> > a >> >> > problem >> >> > getting mine off when I have grounded it. >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > >> >> > Martin >> >> >> >> Perhaps you have been lucky. My experience is that they will drive >> >> into > a >> >> muddy bottom, as any other boat would, and then are all but impossible > to >> >> heal over to enable an easy "reverse out" >> >> >> >> DP >> >> >> >> >> > >> > My experience is similar to Martins. I was fairly confident I would >> > get >> > off >> > the mud if I grounded my old Westerly 30 BK. Bilge keel boats with >> > inboard >> > engines often have spade rudders and have the ability to "walk" the > keels >> > out of trouble. Engine full astern to wash away the mud and waggling > the >> > rudder would usually free the boat. Obviously being blown onto a lee >> > shore >> > on a falling tide is a different proposition for any yacht as having >> > grounded it is already too late to deploy a kedge before being stuck > fast >> > due to the falling tide. >> > >> > Chris >> >> Thats the scenario I am talking about. You dont have the ability of > healing >> the boat over to assist in shortening the draft temporarily. Wing keel >> boats also suffer a simimar dilema. >> >> DP >> >> > > Could you please explain how to heel a yacht which has gone aground to > refloat her as I do not fully understand the procedure for successful > execution. > > ChrisR As you heel a long or short keel boat over the draft gets shorter. With a bilge keeler or wing keeled boat the draft gets longer. With the single keel boat (not winged) you simply get all the crew and any other wieghts to one side and start the boat heeling. A kedging anchor can be used to assist. A long line attached to a halyard taken ashore will also assist in healing the boat in the desired direction. The more the boat heels the more the keel is lifted off the bottom and subsequently frees itself. In the case of a bilge (double) keel boat the distance to the bottom of one keel will decrease substancially. But the other keel will have to go down further as the boat heels DP |
| #23 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 13:15:05 +0100, "Phasmatis" <news@l19.co.uk> wrote:
>There are different ways to do this, my immediate response would be to get >all the crew to sit on the boom, failing that take the anchor out in a >dinghy and hope the windlass will assist. Perhaps this is what they were doing here http://www.knrm.nl/70reddingstations...heArticle=9529 -- Martin |
| #24 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 22:52:14 +1000, "D Parker"
<nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote: > >"chrisR" <chris@yachtsmen.co.uk> wrote in message >news:46dbf8c8$1@nntp.onyx.net... >> >> "D Parker" <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote in message >> news:46dbbb5f$0$28546$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... >>> >>> "chrisR" <chris@yachtsmen.co.uk> wrote in message >>> news:46db50d4$1@nntp.onyx.net... >>> > >>> > "D Parker" <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote in message >>> > news:46db452e$0$28515$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... >>> >> >>> >> "Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message >>> >> news:jnemd3lah5qdbo6rfi4dk923tsrrut2dl5@4ax.com... >>> >> > On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:55:00 +1000, "D Parker" >>> >> > <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >>"Phasmatis" <news@l19.co.uk> wrote in message >>> >> >>news:46dae067$0$13934$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk. .. >>> >> >>> Hi All, >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> In the market for a bigger boat, am currently considering a >> Westerly >>> >> >>> Berwick, any advice appreciated. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> I want a 6 berth family boat that must be able to take the ground >> so >>> >> >>> Bilge >>> >> >>> Keel is ideal. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Required for cruising UK & Europe so would prefer something >>> >> >>> heavier >>> > that >>> >> >>> would be more comfortable in a Force 8/9 than for speed. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Constraints are only have 25k to play with for the initial >> purchase. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Any ideas? >>> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>Why a bilge keeler? I am sure you would also find plenty of long >>> >> >>keel >>> >> >>boats >>> >> >>that would suit your cruising needs also. >>> >> >> >>> >> >>They dont point and are slower - generally. >>> >> >>The are harder to get off the bottom if grounded. >>> >> > >>> >> > Bilge keel boats are easier to get off when grounded. I have never >> had >>> >> > a >>> >> > problem >>> >> > getting mine off when I have grounded it. >>> >> > >>> >> > -- >>> >> > >>> >> > Martin >>> >> >>> >> Perhaps you have been lucky. My experience is that they will drive >>> >> into >> a >>> >> muddy bottom, as any other boat would, and then are all but impossible >> to >>> >> heal over to enable an easy "reverse out" >>> >> >>> >> DP >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> > My experience is similar to Martins. I was fairly confident I would >>> > get >>> > off >>> > the mud if I grounded my old Westerly 30 BK. Bilge keel boats with >>> > inboard >>> > engines often have spade rudders and have the ability to "walk" the >> keels >>> > out of trouble. Engine full astern to wash away the mud and waggling >> the >>> > rudder would usually free the boat. Obviously being blown onto a lee >>> > shore >>> > on a falling tide is a different proposition for any yacht as having >>> > grounded it is already too late to deploy a kedge before being stuck >> fast >>> > due to the falling tide. >>> > >>> > Chris >>> >>> Thats the scenario I am talking about. You dont have the ability of >> healing >>> the boat over to assist in shortening the draft temporarily. Wing keel >>> boats also suffer a simimar dilema. >>> >>> DP >>> >>> >> >> Could you please explain how to heel a yacht which has gone aground to >> refloat her as I do not fully understand the procedure for successful >> execution. >> >> ChrisR > >As you heel a long or short keel boat over the draft gets shorter. With a >bilge keeler or wing keeled boat the draft gets longer. Only if it sinks. -- Martin |
| #25 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
Martin wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 22:52:14 +1000, "D Parker" > <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote: >> >>As you heel a long or short keel boat over the draft gets shorter. With a >>bilge keeler or wing keeled boat the draft gets longer. > > Only if it sinks. You what? A bilge keeler, when afloat and level, has a certain draft D, and if we may assume that the draft of the rudder is less than that of the keels, then the draft of the port keel and of the starboard keel will both equal D. If the boat is now heeled to port, the new draft of the port keel will be D+P and that of the starboard keel will be D+S. If the angle of heel is small, then P+S is approximately zero, i.e. the draft of the port keel must increase by about the same amount as that of the starboard keel decreases. The draft of the boat is equal to the larger of these two drafts, and thus draft initially increases when you heel the boat, and peaks, I think, when the centre of buoyancy moves past being vertically above the tip of the deeper keel. If heeled beyond this point, draft will begin to decrease, but heel will have to be substantial before the draft decreases to less than the original D. |
| #26 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 14:54:37 GMT, Ronald Raygun <no.spam@localhost.localdomain>
wrote: >Martin wrote: > >> On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 22:52:14 +1000, "D Parker" >> <nospamozskipper@hotmailnospam.com.> wrote: >>> >>>As you heel a long or short keel boat over the draft gets shorter. With a >>>bilge keeler or wing keeled boat the draft gets longer. >> >> Only if it sinks. > >You what? > >A bilge keeler, when afloat and level, has a certain draft D, and if >we may assume that the draft of the rudder is less than that of the >keels, then the draft of the port keel and of the starboard keel will >both equal D. > >If the boat is now heeled to port, the new draft of the port keel will >be D+P and that of the starboard keel will be D+S. If the angle of >heel is small, then P+S is approximately zero, i.e. the draft of the >port keel must increase by about the same amount as that of the >starboard keel decreases. > >The draft of the boat is equal to the larger of these two drafts, and >thus draft initially increases when you heel the boat, and peaks, I >think, when the centre of buoyancy moves past being vertically above >the tip of the deeper keel. If heeled beyond this point, draft will >begin to decrease, but heel will have to be substantial before the >draft decreases to less than the original D. In the meantime water could pour into the boat and sink it. -- Martin |
| #27 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
The point is simple,fin keel, deep, unstable, fast, suits racers and deep
sea sailors. Bilge keels, shorter, stable, a bit slower, suits cruisers and sailors who like to go up creeks. You takes yer choice. -- Yrs Quilly http://quilljar.users.btopenworld.com/gall.html "Phasmatis" <news@l19.co.uk> wrote in message news:46dbd3b8$0$13937$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk... >I have a drying mooring in Wales and don't wish to mess on with legs or pay >more cash for a deeper mooring. > > I must be lucky as I have never grounded but I have pushed my luck a > little and bumped over the bar into the Beaulieu River and Newtown Creek > in the Solent. > > >> Why a bilge keeler? I am sure you would also find plenty of long keel >> boats that would suit your cruising needs also. >> >> They dont point and are slower - generally. >> The are harder to get off the bottom if grounded. >> >> However they are easy to careen. But thats only once a year at best. >> >> DP >> > > |
| #28 | |
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Re: Bilge Keel Suggestions
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