Abersoch tragedy

Chaps/chapesses

I've been away on hols in Pwllheli just up the road from Abersoch,
where a Laser 4000 sailor died under an upturned hull.

When I got back I tried trawling for any mentions on this group but so
far have drawn a blank.

I am very interested in entrapment (in the sailing sense) and I
believe that this poor chap became entrapped, for reasons that are not
yet clear.

Does the group know any more, please?

Thanks

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:57:50 -0700, Stephen Page
<steve@the-page-family.net> wrote:

>Chaps/chapesses
>
>I've been away on hols in Pwllheli just up the road from Abersoch,
>where a Laser 4000 sailor died under an upturned hull.
>
>When I got back I tried trawling for any mentions on this group but so
>far have drawn a blank.
>
>I am very interested in entrapment (in the sailing sense) and I
>believe that this poor chap became entrapped, for reasons that are not
>yet clear.
>
>Does the group know any more, please?
>
>Thanks

http://tinyurl.com/yqrc6u
http://www.rnliabersoch.co.uk/callout_files.htm

On 13 Aug, 18:57, Stephen Page <st...@the-page-family.net> wrote:

> When I got back I tried trawling for any mentions on this group but so
> far have drawn a blank.

"Race goes on after dinghy death" is the thread. Well, threadette -
oriinal post plus one reply.

Ian

On 13 Aug, 18:57, Stephen Page <st...@the-page-family.net> wrote:

> Does the group know any more, please?

I found this interesting:

"Abersoch's Atlantic class RNLI lifeboat was requested to launch by
Holyhead Coastguard at 14.40 on 30 July. The volunteer RNLI crew were
directed by one of the South Caernarfonshire Yacht Club safety boats
to another, which had recovered an unconscious casualty from a
capsized sailing dinghy. The RNLI requested the assistance of a
helicopter. Two of the RNLI crew remained on the safety boat which
headed for the beach and carried out CPR on the casualty, until the
air ambulance arrived on the scene"

I wonder if things would have turned out differently if the helicopter
had been called out at once, rather than waiting for the lifeboat to
arrive and asses the situation?

I wonder how the CG decide what to send in such cases. I can see that
sending a helicopter every time on the offchance wuld be prohibitively
expensive - but equally there must be some occasions when sending a
lifeboat first is clearly a (literal) waste of time.

Ian

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 12:33:33 -0700, Ian <ian.groups@btinternet.com>
wrote:

>On 13 Aug, 18:57, Stephen Page <st...@the-page-family.net> wrote:
>
>> Does the group know any more, please?
>
>I found this interesting:
>
>"Abersoch's Atlantic class RNLI lifeboat was requested to launch by
>Holyhead Coastguard at 14.40 on 30 July. The volunteer RNLI crew were
>directed by one of the South Caernarfonshire Yacht Club safety boats
>to another, which had recovered an unconscious casualty from a
>capsized sailing dinghy. The RNLI requested the assistance of a
>helicopter. Two of the RNLI crew remained on the safety boat which
>headed for the beach and carried out CPR on the casualty, until the
>air ambulance arrived on the scene"
>
>I wonder if things would have turned out differently if the helicopter
>had been called out at once, rather than waiting for the lifeboat to
>arrive and asses the situation?
>
>I wonder how the CG decide what to send in such cases. I can see that
>sending a helicopter every time on the offchance wuld be prohibitively
>expensive - but equally there must be some occasions when sending a
>lifeboat first is clearly a (literal) waste of time.
>
>Ian

"air ambulance"

On 13 Aug, 20:52, Goofball_star_dot_etal <w...@needs.email.anyhow>
wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 12:33:33 -0700, Ian <ian.gro...@btinternet.com>
> wrote:

> >"The RNLI requested the assistance of a helicopter"

> "air ambulance"

So? They still seem to have kept the chap in a rescue boat for the
lifeboat to have a look, rather than take him straight to the shore.

Ian

On 14 Aug, 06:45, Ian <ian.gro...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 13 Aug, 20:52, Goofball_star_dot_etal <w...@needs.email.anyhow>
> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 12:33:33 -0700, Ian <ian.gro...@btinternet.com>
> > wrote:
> > >"The RNLI requested the assistance of a helicopter"
> > "air ambulance"
>
> So? They still seem to have kept the chap in a rescue boat for the
> lifeboat to have a look, rather than take him straight to the shore.

If he needed CPR his chances were only about 1 in 5 even with the best
treatment possible so probably no harm done.

However, it's a pretty good point. If you've dragged someone out of
the water surely full throttle to the nearest bit of shoreline with
access for ambulance and/or helicopter is the obvious thing to do. You
might even get lucky and find a doctor on the shore. I wonder why the
rescue boat elected to keep the casualty at sea? Were they assuming it
would be easier to winch from the sea if an S&R helicopter turned up?

On 14 Aug, 11:25, toad <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> If he needed CPR his chances were only about 1 in 5 even with the best
> treatment possible so probably no harm done.

Indeed.

> However, it's a pretty good point. If you've dragged someone out of
> the water surely full throttle to the nearest bit of shoreline with
> access for ambulance and/or helicopter is the obvious thing to do. You
> might even get lucky and find a doctor on the shore. I wonder why the
> rescue boat elected to keep the casualty at sea? Were they assuming it
> would be easier to winch from the sea if an S&R helicopter turned up?

Perhaps they got him just as the lifeboat arrived, of course. I'd be
interested to know. Presumably there'll be a MAIB report along in due
course.

Ian

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 03:25:49 -0700, toad <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 14 Aug, 06:45, Ian <ian.gro...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On 13 Aug, 20:52, Goofball_star_dot_etal <w...@needs.email.anyhow>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 12:33:33 -0700, Ian <ian.gro...@btinternet.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >"The RNLI requested the assistance of a helicopter"
>> > "air ambulance"
>>
>> So? They still seem to have kept the chap in a rescue boat for the
>> lifeboat to have a look, rather than take him straight to the shore.
>
>If he needed CPR his chances were only about 1 in 5 even with the best
>treatment possible so probably no harm done.
>
>However, it's a pretty good point. If you've dragged someone out of
>the water surely full throttle to the nearest bit of shoreline with
>access for ambulance and/or helicopter is the obvious thing to do. You
>might even get lucky and find a doctor on the shore.

Sounds a bit like "pass the buck even if it kills them!" What's lucky
about finding a doctor, they need air NOW. A GP friend told me that
paramedics/ambulance/fire er..persons would be a much better choice
than her/GPs in a first aid situation.

I wonder why the
>rescue boat elected to keep the casualty at sea? Were they assuming it
>would be easier to winch from the sea if an S&R helicopter turned up?

Perhaps they were busy.. one would hope.

	#1
Stephen Page	Abersoch tragedy Chaps/chapesses I've been away on hols in Pwllheli just up the road from Abersoch, where a Laser 4000 sailor died under an upturned hull. When I got back I tried trawling for any mentions on this group but so far have drawn a blank. I am very interested in entrapment (in the sailing sense) and I believe that this poor chap became entrapped, for reasons that are not yet clear. Does the group know any more, please? Thanks

	#2
Goofball_star_dot_etal	Re: Abersoch tragedy On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:57:50 -0700, Stephen Page <steve@the-page-family.net> wrote: >Chaps/chapesses > >I've been away on hols in Pwllheli just up the road from Abersoch, >where a Laser 4000 sailor died under an upturned hull. > >When I got back I tried trawling for any mentions on this group but so >far have drawn a blank. > >I am very interested in entrapment (in the sailing sense) and I >believe that this poor chap became entrapped, for reasons that are not >yet clear. > >Does the group know any more, please? > >Thanks http://tinyurl.com/yqrc6u http://www.rnliabersoch.co.uk/callout_files.htm

	#3
Ian	Re: Abersoch tragedy On 13 Aug, 18:57, Stephen Page <st...@the-page-family.net> wrote: > When I got back I tried trawling for any mentions on this group but so > far have drawn a blank. "Race goes on after dinghy death" is the thread. Well, threadette - oriinal post plus one reply. Ian

	#6
Ian	Re: Abersoch tragedy On 13 Aug, 20:52, Goofball_star_dot_etal <w...@needs.email.anyhow> wrote: > On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 12:33:33 -0700, Ian <ian.gro...@btinternet.com> > wrote: > >"The RNLI requested the assistance of a helicopter" > "air ambulance" So? They still seem to have kept the chap in a rescue boat for the lifeboat to have a look, rather than take him straight to the shore. Ian

	#7
toad	Re: Abersoch tragedy On 14 Aug, 06:45, Ian <ian.gro...@btinternet.com> wrote: > On 13 Aug, 20:52, Goofball_star_dot_etal <w...@needs.email.anyhow> > wrote: > > > On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 12:33:33 -0700, Ian <ian.gro...@btinternet.com> > > wrote: > > >"The RNLI requested the assistance of a helicopter" > > "air ambulance" > > So? They still seem to have kept the chap in a rescue boat for the > lifeboat to have a look, rather than take him straight to the shore. If he needed CPR his chances were only about 1 in 5 even with the best treatment possible so probably no harm done. However, it's a pretty good point. If you've dragged someone out of the water surely full throttle to the nearest bit of shoreline with access for ambulance and/or helicopter is the obvious thing to do. You might even get lucky and find a doctor on the shore. I wonder why the rescue boat elected to keep the casualty at sea? Were they assuming it would be easier to winch from the sea if an S&R helicopter turned up?

	#8
Ian	Re: Abersoch tragedy On 14 Aug, 11:25, toad <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > If he needed CPR his chances were only about 1 in 5 even with the best > treatment possible so probably no harm done. Indeed. > However, it's a pretty good point. If you've dragged someone out of > the water surely full throttle to the nearest bit of shoreline with > access for ambulance and/or helicopter is the obvious thing to do. You > might even get lucky and find a doctor on the shore. I wonder why the > rescue boat elected to keep the casualty at sea? Were they assuming it > would be easier to winch from the sea if an S&R helicopter turned up? Perhaps they got him just as the lifeboat arrived, of course. I'd be interested to know. Presumably there'll be a MAIB report along in due course. Ian

	#9
Goofball_star_dot_etal	Re: Abersoch tragedy On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 03:25:49 -0700, toad <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >On 14 Aug, 06:45, Ian <ian.gro...@btinternet.com> wrote: >> On 13 Aug, 20:52, Goofball_star_dot_etal <w...@needs.email.anyhow> >> wrote: >> >> > On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 12:33:33 -0700, Ian <ian.gro...@btinternet.com> >> > wrote: >> > >"The RNLI requested the assistance of a helicopter" >> > "air ambulance" >> >> So? They still seem to have kept the chap in a rescue boat for the >> lifeboat to have a look, rather than take him straight to the shore. > >If he needed CPR his chances were only about 1 in 5 even with the best >treatment possible so probably no harm done. > >However, it's a pretty good point. If you've dragged someone out of >the water surely full throttle to the nearest bit of shoreline with >access for ambulance and/or helicopter is the obvious thing to do. You >might even get lucky and find a doctor on the shore. Sounds a bit like "pass the buck even if it kills them!" What's lucky about finding a doctor, they need air NOW. A GP friend told me that paramedics/ambulance/fire er..persons would be a much better choice than her/GPs in a first aid situation. I wonder why the >rescue boat elected to keep the casualty at sea? Were they assuming it >would be easier to winch from the sea if an S&R helicopter turned up? Perhaps they were busy.. one would hope.