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A-Bolts
A deck fitting called an A-Bolt failed on my Westerly Cirrus 22 footer, here on
the Great Lakes of the USA. I could not find a local supplier. I did find them in an old RWO catalog, but they are obviously not available here. Are they being sold in Britain? The base of the deck plate is 3 inches long and the attached bolts are about 2 1/4 inches center to center. Replacing the damaged bolt that holds the outer shroud to the deck will be no easy task as the nuts inside the boat are all fiberglassed over. I have replaced one of the broken bolts with another bolt through the deck plate just inside of the A-Bolt. I'm not sure if this repair will hold, so I'm lining up a replacement, just in case. Any ideas of how much force is being put on this fitting in say moderate winds? Sherwin D. |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 01:14:13 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net>
wrote: >A deck fitting called an A-Bolt failed on my Westerly Cirrus 22 footer, here on >the >Great Lakes of the USA. I could not find a local supplier. I did find them in >an old >RWO catalog, but they are obviously not available here. Are they being sold in >Britain? The base of the deck plate is 3 inches long and the attached bolts are >about >2 1/4 inches center to center. Replacing the damaged bolt that holds the outer >shroud to the deck will be no easy task as the nuts inside the boat are all >fiberglassed >over. I have replaced one of the broken bolts with another bolt through the >deck >plate just inside of the A-Bolt. I'm not sure if this repair will hold, so I'm >lining up a >replacement, just in case. Any ideas of how much force is being put on this >fitting >in say moderate winds? Like this? http://www.proboat.co.uk/item.asp?de...=289&cat_id=33 I believe that failure of these bolts is not uncommon on some Westerlies due the bolt being out of line with the shroud, so that the bolt is in bending when the load come on. Ian |
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Re: A-Bolts
In message <46DE4935.67AAB068@comcast.net>, sherwindu
<sherwindu@comcast.net> writes >A deck fitting called an A-Bolt failed on my Westerly Cirrus 22 footer, here on >the >Great Lakes of the USA. I could not find a local supplier. I did find them in >an old >RWO catalog, but they are obviously not available here. Are they being sold in >Britain? The base of the deck plate is 3 inches long and the attached >bolts are >about >2 1/4 inches center to center. Replacing the damaged bolt that holds the outer >shroud to the deck will be no easy task as the nuts inside the boat are all >fiberglassed >over. I have replaced one of the broken bolts with another bolt through the >deck >plate just inside of the A-Bolt. I'm not sure if this repair will hold, so I'm >lining up a >replacement, just in case. Any ideas of how much force is being put on this >fitting >in say moderate winds? > > Sherwin D. > I believe that RWO gear (or at least some categories of it) is now supplied by a company called Barton in Whitstable, Kent England - see www.bartonmarine.com An email to them may bring some info. I have found them to be helpful (and I have some of their kit on our boat). ELSE try www.baselinemarine.com who are based in Fareham, Hampshire, England. I have also bought kit from them - their .pdf catalogue can be useful ELSE try www.quaywest-chandlers.co.uk who stock RWO kit. Hope you find a source. -- Spike |
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Re: A-Bolts
Thanks for the suggestions, but none of these suppliers stock an A-bolt. Could be
that Westerly had this piece specially made up for their boats. Is there something like a Westerly junk yard, where old boats are dissassembled for their parts? NotMyRealName wrote: > In message <46DE4935.67AAB068@comcast.net>, sherwindu > <sherwindu@comcast.net> writes > >A deck fitting called an A-Bolt failed on my Westerly Cirrus 22 footer, here on > >the > >Great Lakes of the USA. I could not find a local supplier. I did find them in > >an old > >RWO catalog, but they are obviously not available here. Are they being sold in > >Britain? The base of the deck plate is 3 inches long and the attached > >bolts are > >about > >2 1/4 inches center to center. Replacing the damaged bolt that holds the outer > >shroud to the deck will be no easy task as the nuts inside the boat are all > >fiberglassed > >over. I have replaced one of the broken bolts with another bolt through the > >deck > >plate just inside of the A-Bolt. I'm not sure if this repair will hold, so I'm > >lining up a > >replacement, just in case. Any ideas of how much force is being put on this > >fitting > >in say moderate winds? > > > > Sherwin D. > > > > I believe that RWO gear (or at least some categories of it) is now > supplied by a company called Barton in Whitstable, Kent England - see > > www.bartonmarine.com > > An email to them may bring some info. I have found them to be helpful > (and I have some of their kit on our boat). > > ELSE > > try > > www.baselinemarine.com > > who are based in Fareham, Hampshire, England. > > I have also bought kit from them - their .pdf catalogue can be useful > > ELSE > > try > > www.quaywest-chandlers.co.uk > > who stock RWO kit. > > Hope you find a source. > -- > Spike |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:55:25 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net>
wrote: >Thanks for the suggestions, but none of these suppliers stock an A-bolt. Some A-bolts here: http://marinestore.co.uk/Merchant2/m... Code=u-bolts |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:55:25 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote:
>Thanks for the suggestions, but none of these suppliers stock an A-bolt. Could be >that Westerly had this piece specially made up for their boats. I've seen them on non-Westerly Boats of the same vintage. > Is there something >like a Westerly junk yard, where old boats are dissassembled for their parts? My 1973 Westerly has U bolts. Is there any reason why you can't use a U bolt? Do you know that there is a Westerly Owners Yahoogroup with 600-700 subscribers from all over the world including the USA Westerly-Owners@yahoogroups.com and an Owners Association website, http://www.westerly-owners.co.uk/index.html where you can ask for help? -- Martin |
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Re: A-Bolts
Did you look at the proboat link that I posted/ They seemed to do just
what you wanted. Ian (puzzled). On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:55:25 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote: >Thanks for the suggestions, but none of these suppliers stock an A-bolt. Could be >that Westerly had this piece specially made up for their boats. Is there something >like a Westerly junk yard, where old boats are dissassembled for their parts? > >NotMyRealName wrote: > >> In message <46DE4935.67AAB068@comcast.net>, sherwindu >> <sherwindu@comcast.net> writes >> >A deck fitting called an A-Bolt failed on my Westerly Cirrus 22 footer, here on >> >the >> >Great Lakes of the USA. I could not find a local supplier. I did find them in >> >an old >> >RWO catalog, but they are obviously not available here. Are they being sold in >> >Britain? The base of the deck plate is 3 inches long and the attached >> >bolts are >> >about >> >2 1/4 inches center to center. Replacing the damaged bolt that holds the outer >> >shroud to the deck will be no easy task as the nuts inside the boat are all >> >fiberglassed >> >over. I have replaced one of the broken bolts with another bolt through the >> >deck >> >plate just inside of the A-Bolt. I'm not sure if this repair will hold, so I'm >> >lining up a >> >replacement, just in case. Any ideas of how much force is being put on this >> >fitting >> >in say moderate winds? >> > >> > Sherwin D. >> > >> >> I believe that RWO gear (or at least some categories of it) is now >> supplied by a company called Barton in Whitstable, Kent England - see >> >> www.bartonmarine.com >> >> An email to them may bring some info. I have found them to be helpful >> (and I have some of their kit on our boat). >> >> ELSE >> >> try >> >> www.baselinemarine.com >> >> who are based in Fareham, Hampshire, England. >> >> I have also bought kit from them - their .pdf catalogue can be useful >> >> ELSE >> >> try >> >> www.quaywest-chandlers.co.uk >> >> who stock RWO kit. >> >> Hope you find a source. >> -- >> Spike |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:14:35 +0200, Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:55:25 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote: > >>Thanks for the suggestions, but none of these suppliers stock an A-bolt. Could be >>that Westerly had this piece specially made up for their boats. > >I've seen them on non-Westerly Boats of the same vintage. Yes, so have I. Most of the boats on my moorings are 1970/80's vintage and I have noticed them on several boats. Ian |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:08:31 GMT, ian@atsandelldot.codot.uk wrote:
>On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:14:35 +0200, Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote: > >>On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:55:25 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote: >> >>>Thanks for the suggestions, but none of these suppliers stock an A-bolt. Could be >>>that Westerly had this piece specially made up for their boats. >> >>I've seen them on non-Westerly Boats of the same vintage. > >Yes, so have I. Most of the boats on my moorings are 1970/80's vintage >and I have noticed them on several boats. Is there are any reason they used A and not U bolts, Ian? I have seen several where the alignment between the A and the rigging looks bad. -- Martin |
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Re: A-Bolts
If they do, it's well hidden. Searching their site for A-bolts came up with nothing.
Goofball_star_dot_etal wrote: > On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:55:25 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> > wrote: > > >Thanks for the suggestions, but none of these suppliers stock an A-bolt. > > Some A-bolts here: > http://marinestore.co.uk/Merchant2/m... Code=u-bolts |
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Re: A-Bolts
Martin wrote: > On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:55:25 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote: > > >Thanks for the suggestions, but none of these suppliers stock an A-bolt. Could be > >that Westerly had this piece specially made up for their boats. > > I've seen them on non-Westerly Boats of the same vintage. > > > Is there something > >like a Westerly junk yard, where old boats are dissassembled for their parts? > > My 1973 Westerly has U bolts. Is there any reason why you can't use a U bolt? Mostly appearance. The starboard bolt would not match the port bolt indicating an obvious repair and reminding me constantly of the missmatch. > > > Do you know that there is a Westerly Owners Yahoogroup with 600-700 subscribers > from all over the world including the USA > Westerly-Owners@yahoogroups.com > > and an Owners Association website, http://www.westerly-owners.co.uk/index.html > where you can ask for help? > -- > > Martin I have tried those folks before, without any success. I may have to try again anyways. Sherwin |
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Re: A-Bolts
ian@atsandelldot.codot.uk wrote: > On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:14:35 +0200, Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote: > > >On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:55:25 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote: > > > >>Thanks for the suggestions, but none of these suppliers stock an A-bolt. Could be > >>that Westerly had this piece specially made up for their boats. > > > >I've seen them on non-Westerly Boats of the same vintage. > > Yes, so have I. Most of the boats on my moorings are 1970/80's vintage > and I have noticed them on several boats. > > Ian Makes one wonder where they get their replacements. Westerly must have thought this bolt was good for the life of the boat, hence they fiberglassed over the bolts under the deck. Either they did not put enough caulk under the top deck plate or somehow salt water got under it. The bolt broke off just below the plate and revealed a rusty colored bolt. It's the second rigging failure on this boat this year. Last one was an open body turnbuckle on the forestay where water probably sat in the pocket between the end of the bolt and the body itself. It took a lot of chasing to find a replacement for that one to match my other turnbuckles. I just hope my rig has not reached some magical breakdown point where everything is going to start failing. Visual inspection shows no outward signs of damage or rusting, so I am just going to take my chances with the existing rig. It has served me well for 35 years, so I'm hoping to get another 5 to 10 years out of it. Another thought I had on the A-bolt was that it was welded to the top plate. Perhaps the welding somehow weakened the bolt. Sherwin |
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Re: A-Bolts
Martin wrote: > On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:08:31 GMT, ian@atsandelldot.codot.uk wrote: > > >On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:14:35 +0200, Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote: > > > >>On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:55:25 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote: > >> > >>>Thanks for the suggestions, but none of these suppliers stock an A-bolt. Could be > >>>that Westerly had this piece specially made up for their boats. > >> > >>I've seen them on non-Westerly Boats of the same vintage. > > > >Yes, so have I. Most of the boats on my moorings are 1970/80's vintage > >and I have noticed them on several boats. > > Is there are any reason they used A and not U bolts, Ian? Sorry for butting in, but I think it might have been for looks. I think they look a lot nicer. > > > I have seen several where the alignment between the A and the rigging looks bad. Actually, my A-bolt is not vertically oriented to the deck, but has a slight incline to be more in line with the shroud. Sherwin > > -- > > Martin |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 02:00:08 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net>
wrote: > > >ian@atsandelldot.codot.uk wrote: > >> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:14:35 +0200, Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote: >> >> >On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:55:25 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote: >> > >> >>Thanks for the suggestions, but none of these suppliers stock an A-bolt. Could be >> >>that Westerly had this piece specially made up for their boats. >> > >> >I've seen them on non-Westerly Boats of the same vintage. >> >> Yes, so have I. Most of the boats on my moorings are 1970/80's vintage >> and I have noticed them on several boats. >> >> Ian > > Makes one wonder where they get their replacements. Prolly walk into their local chandlers and if they have not got them in stock, they will order from Proboat, as I keep saying. Ian |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 23:23:36 +0200, Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:08:31 GMT, ian@atsandelldot.codot.uk wrote: > >>On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:14:35 +0200, Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote: >> >>>On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:55:25 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote: >>> >>>>Thanks for the suggestions, but none of these suppliers stock an A-bolt. Could be >>>>that Westerly had this piece specially made up for their boats. >>> >>>I've seen them on non-Westerly Boats of the same vintage. >> >>Yes, so have I. Most of the boats on my moorings are 1970/80's vintage >>and I have noticed them on several boats. > >Is there are any reason they used A and not U bolts, Ian? A couple of structural reasons that I can postulate. First, the toggle attaching the stroud to the u-bolt could slide sideways on the top of the U as the load comes and goes, causing wear. Second, the U will tend to be pulled out of shape, into an A shape, causing bending loads, particularly at the base.Neither reason seems overwhelming but may warrant an increase in size. Personally, I think that U/A bolts are only really good for lightweight rigs, otherwise the chain plate should be tied into a structural member, eg the caps into the main bulkhead and the lowers onto tie rods terminating at the main longeron of frame etc. In both cases the line on the load should run straight though, so that the tie rod, chain plate and stay should be in a straight line. Ian |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 01:47:27 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net>
wrote: >If they do, it's well hidden. Searching their site for A-bolts came up with nothing. > Never mind searching the site, just scroll to the bottom of the page I gave you Try this if the link was too long for you.... http://tinyurl.com/yqpnkf >Goofball_star_dot_etal wrote: > >> On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:55:25 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> >> wrote: >> >> >Thanks for the suggestions, but none of these suppliers stock an A-bolt. >> >> Some A-bolts here: >> http://marinestore.co.uk/Merchant2/m... Code=u-bolts |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 02:03:12 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote:
> > >Martin wrote: > >> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:08:31 GMT, ian@atsandelldot.codot.uk wrote: >> >> >On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:14:35 +0200, Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote: >> > >> >>On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:55:25 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote: >> >> >> >>>Thanks for the suggestions, but none of these suppliers stock an A-bolt. Could be >> >>>that Westerly had this piece specially made up for their boats. >> >> >> >>I've seen them on non-Westerly Boats of the same vintage. >> > >> >Yes, so have I. Most of the boats on my moorings are 1970/80's vintage >> >and I have noticed them on several boats. >> >> Is there are any reason they used A and not U bolts, Ian? > > Sorry for butting in, but I think it might have been for looks. I think they look > a lot nicer. > >> >> >> I have seen several where the alignment between the A and the rigging looks bad. > > Actually, my A-bolt is not vertically oriented to the deck, but has a slight incline > to be more in line with the shroud. Yes, but was it like that when new? :-) I meant lateral alignment as well as vertical alignment. -- Martin |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 02:00:08 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote:
> > >ian@atsandelldot.codot.uk wrote: > >> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:14:35 +0200, Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote: >> >> >On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:55:25 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote: >> > >> >>Thanks for the suggestions, but none of these suppliers stock an A-bolt. Could be >> >>that Westerly had this piece specially made up for their boats. >> > >> >I've seen them on non-Westerly Boats of the same vintage. >> >> Yes, so have I. Most of the boats on my moorings are 1970/80's vintage >> and I have noticed them on several boats. >> >> Ian > > Makes one wonder where they get their replacements. Westerly must have thought this >bolt was good for the life of the boat, hence they fiberglassed over >the bolts under the deck. Either they did not put enough caulk under the top deck >plate or somehow salt water got under it. The bolt broke off just below the plate >and revealed a rusty colored bolt. It's the second rigging failure on this boat this >year. Last one was an open body turnbuckle on the forestay where water probably >sat in the pocket between the end of the bolt and the body itself. It took a lot of >chasing to find a replacement for that one to match my other turnbuckles. Maybe you should have replaced then all? > I just hope >my rig has not reached some magical breakdown point where everything is going to >start failing. You may lose your mast eventually. > Visual inspection shows no outward signs of damage or rusting, so I am >just going to take my chances with the existing rig. It has served me well for 35 >years, so I'm hoping to get another 5 to 10 years out of it. Another thought I had on >the A-bolt was that it was welded to the top plate. Perhaps the welding somehow >weakened the bolt. > > Sherwin > -- Martin |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 01:51:07 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote:
> > >Martin wrote: > >> On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:55:25 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote: >> >> >Thanks for the suggestions, but none of these suppliers stock an A-bolt. Could be >> >that Westerly had this piece specially made up for their boats. >> >> I've seen them on non-Westerly Boats of the same vintage. >> >> > Is there something >> >like a Westerly junk yard, where old boats are dissassembled for their parts? >> >> My 1973 Westerly has U bolts. Is there any reason why you can't use a U bolt? > > Mostly appearance. The starboard bolt would not match the port bolt indicating an > obvious repair and reminding me constantly of the missmatch. I'd have replaced both. > >> >> >> Do you know that there is a Westerly Owners Yahoogroup with 600-700 subscribers >> from all over the world including the USA >> Westerly-Owners@yahoogroups.com >> >> and an Owners Association website, http://www.westerly-owners.co.uk/index.html >> where you can ask for help? > I have tried those folks before, without any success. What did you ask? > I may have to try again >anyways. There is an ex-Westerly employee answering questions there and several Americans in various stages of resurrecting old Westerly boats. -- Martin |
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Re: A-Bolts
Martin wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 02:03:12 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> > wrote: >>Martin wrote: >>> >>> I have seen several where the alignment between the A and the rigging >>> looks bad. >> >> Actually, my A-bolt is not vertically oriented to the deck, but has a >> slight incline to be more in line with the shroud. > > Yes, but was it like that when new? :-) The drawing on the catalogue page which someone (you?) posted does show that they're like that when new. It strikes me that this type of design is just asking for trouble, because it is bound to put a bending strain on the structural deck through which it is mounted. And it's not just a static strain. It's in the nature of shrouds for the load to vary, so it's rather like trying to forcibly wriggle it loose. I reckon the fitting itself should be straight, and whatever is used as a backing plate should be wedge-shaped so the load is perpendicular to its surface. That means the holes through the deck need to be at an angle, i.e. parallel to the shroud. Also, the fitting should be aligned on deck in such a way that the plane of the A (or U, as the case may be) should contain the line of the shroud and be perpendicular to the deck. |
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Re: A-Bolts
Sher wind u mmm! |
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Re: A-Bolts
ian@atsandelldot.codot.uk wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 23:23:36 +0200, Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote: >> >>Is there are any reason they used A and not U bolts, Ian? > > A couple of structural reasons that I can postulate. > > First, the toggle attaching the stroud to the u-bolt could slide > sideways on the top of the U as the load comes and goes, causing wear. I think you'd get just as much wear on the A, because the A doesn't really have a sharp pointy internal angle, it's more like a U which has been splayed out a bit. The toggle could still move about when it goes slack, which is in any case very rare, given that 99% of boats spend 99% of their time not actually sailing. If one were worried about wear caused by the toggle shifting about, one could "lock" it in position by filling the dead space inside the A or U with some kind of putty, to be dug out whenever the mast is taken down. > Second, the U will tend to be pulled out of shape, into an A shape, > causing bending loads, particularly at the base. I don't think so, not if it's sized correctly. You could say the same about anchor chain links being stretched out of shape. |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:31:38 +0100, "chrisR" <chris@yachtsmen.co.uk> wrote:
> > >Sher wind u > >mmm! > .... up? -- Martin |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 10:26:06 GMT, Ronald Raygun <no.spam@localhost.localdomain>
wrote: >Martin wrote: > >> On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 02:03:12 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> >> wrote: >>>Martin wrote: >>>> >>>> I have seen several where the alignment between the A and the rigging >>>> looks bad. >>> >>> Actually, my A-bolt is not vertically oriented to the deck, but has a >>> slight incline to be more in line with the shroud. >> >> Yes, but was it like that when new? :-) > >The drawing on the catalogue page which someone (you? I think Ian. It wasn't me. >) posted does show >that they're like that when new. It strikes me that this type of design >is just asking for trouble, because it is bound to put a bending strain >on the structural deck through which it is mounted. And it's not just >a static strain. It's in the nature of shrouds for the load to vary, >so it's rather like trying to forcibly wriggle it loose. > >I reckon the fitting itself should be straight, and whatever is used >as a backing plate should be wedge-shaped so the load is perpendicular >to its surface. That means the holes through the deck need to be at >an angle, i.e. parallel to the shroud. > >Also, the fitting should be aligned on deck in such a way that the >plane of the A (or U, as the case may be) should contain the line >of the shroud and be perpendicular to the deck. Yes. -- Martin |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 10:26:06 GMT, Ronald Raygun
<no.spam@localhost.localdomain> wrote: >Martin wrote: > >> On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 02:03:12 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> >> wrote: >>>Martin wrote: >>>> >>>> I have seen several where the alignment between the A and the rigging >>>> looks bad. >>> >>> Actually, my A-bolt is not vertically oriented to the deck, but has a >>> slight incline to be more in line with the shroud. >> >> Yes, but was it like that when new? :-) > >The drawing on the catalogue page which someone (you?) posted does show >that they're like that when new. It strikes me that this type of design >is just asking for trouble, because it is bound to put a bending strain >on the structural deck through which it is mounted. And it's not just >a static strain. It's in the nature of shrouds for the load to vary, >so it's rather like trying to forcibly wriggle it loose. > >I reckon the fitting itself should be straight, and whatever is used >as a backing plate should be wedge-shaped so the load is perpendicular >to its surface. That means the holes through the deck need to be at >an angle, i.e. parallel to the shroud. Nonsense! As long as the line through the shroud intersects the line beween the two nuts (ideally at a point half way between them) in the plane of the nuts' upper surfaces and the deck's thickness is negligible and the bend is small, there is no problem. I bent my own U-bolts just so.. > >Also, the fitting should be aligned on deck in such a way that the >plane of the A (or U, as the case may be) should contain the line >of the shroud and be perpendicular to the deck. |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 12:46:15 +0100, Goofball_star_dot_etal
<who@needs.email.anyhow> wrote: >Nonsense! As long as the line through the shroud intersects the line >beween the two nuts (ideally at a point half way between them) in the >plane of the nuts' upper surfaces and the deck's thickness is >negligible and the bend is small, there is no problem. I bent my own >U-bolts just so.. I can believe it. Lucky they didn't sheer off or pull out of your negligible thickness deck. :-) -- Martin |
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Re: A-Bolts
Goofball_star_dot_etal wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 10:26:06 GMT, Ronald Raygun > <no.spam@localhost.localdomain> wrote: >> >>I reckon the fitting itself should be straight, and whatever is used >>as a backing plate should be wedge-shaped so the load is perpendicular >>to its surface. That means the holes through the deck need to be at >>an angle, i.e. parallel to the shroud. > > Nonsense! As long as the line through the shroud intersects the line > beween the two nuts (ideally at a point half way between them) in the > plane of the nuts' upper surfaces and the deck's thickness is > negligible and the bend is small, there is no problem. Unfortunately the deck is usually not of negligible thickness, bearing in mind that it might be of sandwich construction, and of course that you need to include the thickness of any backing pads. Since the bend is above the deck, then if the line of the shroud is in the "upper plane" [see below], it will not intersect the plane of the tops of the nuts in the line between them, but at a point a distance x away from it, where x is the height h of the "bend point" [see below] above the plane of the nuts times the tan of the bend angle. This assumes that the bend angle built into the A bolt agrees with the angle the shroud line forms with the deck. [I define the "bend point" in the obvious way. Think of the A/U bolt as defining two planes, the "upper plane" in which the legs of the A lie, and the "lower plane" in which the threaded bolt ends live. The bend point is where the shroud line intersects the lower plane. Actually it might make more sense to refer to a "bend line" than a bend point; this line is where the upper and lower planes intersect. For h use the height of the bend line above the nut plane, they will be parallel (horizontal).] If x is reasonably small, it may still be OK in practice even though it's dodgy in principle. Not sure how small "reasonably small" is. Perhaps less than the radius of the bolts? |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:53:05 +0200, Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 12:46:15 +0100, Goofball_star_dot_etal ><who@needs.email.anyhow> wrote: > > >>Nonsense! As long as the line through the shroud intersects the line >>beween the two nuts (ideally at a point half way between them) in the >>plane of the nuts' upper surfaces and the deck's thickness is >>negligible and the bend is small, there is no problem. I bent my own >>U-bolts just so.. > >I can believe it. Lucky they didn't sheer off or pull out of your negligible >thickness deck. :-) Don't hold your breath waiting for my mast to fall down. I still have the original lowers fitted as well, just in case.. All seemed fine when I put the jib sheet winches in the water. |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 18:47:22 +0100, Goofball_star_dot_etal
<who@needs.email.anyhow> wrote: >On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:53:05 +0200, Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote: > >>On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 12:46:15 +0100, Goofball_star_dot_etal >><who@needs.email.anyhow> wrote: >> >> >>>Nonsense! As long as the line through the shroud intersects the line >>>beween the two nuts (ideally at a point half way between them) in the >>>plane of the nuts' upper surfaces and the deck's thickness is >>>negligible and the bend is small, there is no problem. I bent my own >>>U-bolts just so.. >> >>I can believe it. Lucky they didn't sheer off or pull out of your negligible >>thickness deck. :-) > >Don't hold your breath waiting for my mast to fall down. I still have >the original lowers fitted as well, just in case.. All seemed fine >when I put the jib sheet winches in the water. Why? My first one fell down after three years, all the terminals had been put on with the wrong sized swaging tool. -- Martin |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 11:14:07 +0200, Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 01:51:07 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote: > >> >> >>Martin wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:55:25 -0500, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote: >>> >>> >Thanks for the suggestions, but none of these suppliers stock an A-bolt. Could be >>> >that Westerly had this piece specially made up for their boats. >>> >>> I've seen them on non-Westerly Boats of the same vintage. >>> >>> > Is there something >>> >like a Westerly junk yard, where old boats are dissassembled for their parts? >>> >>> My 1973 Westerly has U bolts. Is there any reason why you can't use a U bolt? >> >> Mostly appearance. The starboard bolt would not match the port bolt indicating an >> obvious repair and reminding me constantly of the missmatch. > >I'd have replaced both. 30 years old, one has failed. Who would not replace both, regardless of whether or not you can get a matching replacement. Ian |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 10:56:54 GMT, Ronald Raygun
<no.spam@localhost.localdomain> wrote: >ian@atsandelldot.codot.uk wrote: > >> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 23:23:36 +0200, Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>Is there are any reason they used A and not U bolts, Ian? >> >> A couple of structural reasons that I can postulate. >> >> First, the toggle attaching the stroud to the u-bolt could slide >> sideways on the top of the U as the load comes and goes, causing wear. > >I think you'd get just as much wear on the A, because the A doesn't >really have a sharp pointy internal angle, it's more like a U which >has been splayed out a bit. The toggle could still move about when >it goes slack, which is in any case very rare, given that 99% of >boats spend 99% of their time not actually sailing. Possible the difference in wear would not be significant - I dont know. However, I dont accept that an A bolt is like a U bolt with the legs splayed out a bit. Toggles often go slack in the chainplate. The usual recommendation for rigging tension is that the lee shroud should lack when hard on the wind in a breeze. Ours will be slack in all wind above about F3, on the wind. Ian |
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Re: A-Bolts
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 20:57:58 +0200, Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote: >On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 18:47:22 +0100, Goofball_star_dot_etal ><who@needs.email.anyhow> wrote: > >>On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:53:05 +0200, Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote: >> >>>On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 12:46:15 +0100, Goofball_star_dot_etal >>><who@needs.email.anyhow> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Nonsense! As long as the line through the shroud intersects the line >>>>beween the two nuts (ideally at a point half way between them) in the >>>>plane of the nuts' upper surfaces and the deck's thickness is >>>>negligible and the bend is small, there is no problem. I bent my own >>>>U-bolts just so.. >>> >>>I can believe it. Lucky they didn't sheer off or pull out of your negligible >>>thickness deck. :-) >> >>Don't hold your breath waiting for my mast to fall down. I still have >>the original lowers fitted as well, just in case.. All seemed fine >>when I put the jib sheet winches in the water. > >Why? Why move the lower shrouds? Because they are swept back at about 45 degrees and when there is tension on them they bend the mast "the wrong way". They also get in the way of t |
