Bob

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39420

McLaren are under investigation by Formula 1’s governing body, the FIA,
over a possible breach of F1’s sporting code in Sunday’s Monaco Grand
Prix.

Hell and High Water

In article <mn.e3727d75b54b868a.67894@privacy.net>, bob@privacy.net
says...
> http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39420
>
> McLaren are under investigation by Formula 1â¤=3Fs governing body, the FIA,
> over a possible breach of F1â¤=3Fs sporting code in Sundayâ¤=3Fs Monaco Grand
> Prix.


Team orders were outlawed in F1 following the Austrian GP in 2002,



-Bob

Luigi Topolino

On Mon, 28 May 2007 09:12:38 -0500, Hell and High Water
<tifosoREM@OVEcomcast.net> wrote:
>In article <mn.e3727d75b54b868a.67894@privacy.net>, bob@privacy.net
>says...
>> http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39420
>>
>> McLaren are under investigation by Formula 1â€=3Fs governing body, the FIA,
>> over a possible breach of F1â€=3Fs sporting code in Sundayâ€=3Fs Monaco Grand
>> Prix.
>
>Team orders were outlawed in F1 following the Austrian GP in 2002,

After some 50 years of being integral to the sport.

....Wonder what that was about?

--

"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris."

Trev

"Luigi Topolino" <tifoso@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:7gpl53limi2ds71ndtsern5kkdcs53b11e@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 28 May 2007 09:12:38 -0500, Hell and High Water
> <tifosoREM@OVEcomcast.net> wrote:
>>In article <mn.e3727d75b54b868a.67894@privacy.net>, bob@privacy.net
>>says...
>>> http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39420
>>>
>>> McLaren are under investigation by Formula 1â?=3Fs governing body, the
>>> FIA,
>>> over a possible breach of F1â?=3Fs sporting code in Sundayâ?=3Fs Monaco
>>> Grand
>>> Prix.
>>
>>Team orders were outlawed in F1 following the Austrian GP in 2002,
>
> After some 50 years of being integral to the sport.
>
> ...Wonder what that was about?
>
> --
>
> "...Luigi follow only the Ferraris."

If you follow the Ferraris you must remember the uproar when Rubi had slow
and let shumi pass then in the next race Shumi practically stopped before
the finish line to let Rubi though. Its more they way they did it.

RzR

"Bob" <bob@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:mn.e3727d75b54b868a.67894@privacy.net...
> http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39420
>
> McLaren are under investigation by Formula 1’s governing body, the FIA,
> over a possible breach of F1’s sporting code in Sunday’s Monaco Grand
> Prix.
>

lol...all the other teams should protest it, since its obvious if ron let
them race, all the other teams would get lapped

noone

In article <MPG.20c49f4e98bd5e4e989a51@news.giganews.com>,
Hell and High Water <tifosoREM@OVEcomcast.net> wrote:

> Team orders were outlawed in F1 following the Austrian GP in 2002,
>
>
>
> -Bob

Team orders were introduced into F1 by McLaren for their sole use. It
violated the spirit of the series for another team to use a mechanism
reserved for a single team.

--



..

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Yaris

"Luigi Topolino" <tifoso@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:7gpl53limi2ds71ndtsern5kkdcs53b11e@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 28 May 2007 09:12:38 -0500, Hell and High Water
> <tifosoREM@OVEcomcast.net> wrote:
>>In article <mn.e3727d75b54b868a.67894@privacy.net>, bob@privacy.net
>>says...
>>> http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39420
>>>
>>> McLaren are under investigation by Formula 1â?=3Fs governing body, the
>>> FIA,
>>> over a possible breach of F1â?=3Fs sporting code in Sundayâ?=3Fs Monaco
>>> Grand
>>> Prix.
>>
>>Team orders were outlawed in F1 following the Austrian GP in 2002,
>
> After some 50 years of being integral to the sport.
>
> ...Wonder what that was about?
>
> --
>
> "...Luigi follow only the Ferraris."

Integral? You must mean damaging.

tim.....

"Yaris" <Yaris@yawrong24567.com> wrote in message
news:WPCdnTK1VebzksbbnZ2dnUVZ_vKunZ2d@centurytel.n et...
>
> "Luigi Topolino" <tifoso@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:7gpl53limi2ds71ndtsern5kkdcs53b11e@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 28 May 2007 09:12:38 -0500, Hell and High Water
>> <tifosoREM@OVEcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>In article <mn.e3727d75b54b868a.67894@privacy.net>, bob@privacy.net
>>>says...
>>>> http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39420
>>>>
>>>> McLaren are under investigation by Formula 1â?=3Fs governing body, the
>>>> FIA,
>>>> over a possible breach of F1â?=3Fs sporting code in Sundayâ?=3Fs Monaco
>>>> Grand
>>>> Prix.
>>>
>>>Team orders were outlawed in F1 following the Austrian GP in 2002,
>>
>> After some 50 years of being integral to the sport.
>>
>> ...Wonder what that was about?
>>
>> --
>>
>> "...Luigi follow only the Ferraris."
>
> Integral? You must mean damaging.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

tim

Trev

"RzR" <razorback@stormstrike.org> wrote in message
news:f3f13a$e35$1@ss408.t-com.hr...
>
> "Bob" <bob@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:mn.e3727d75b54b868a.67894@privacy.net...
>> http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39420
>>
>> McLaren are under investigation by Formula 1's governing body, the FIA,
>> over a possible breach of F1's sporting code in Sunday's Monaco Grand
>> Prix.
>>
>
> lol...all the other teams should protest it, since its obvious if ron let
> them race, all the other teams would get lapped

er, they did

John Briggs

Trev wrote:
> "RzR" <razorback@stormstrike.org> wrote in message
> news:f3f13a$e35$1@ss408.t-com.hr...
>>
>> "Bob" <bob@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:mn.e3727d75b54b868a.67894@privacy.net...
>>> http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39420
>>>
>>> McLaren are under investigation by Formula 1's governing body, the
>>> FIA, over a possible breach of F1's sporting code in Sunday's
>>> Monaco Grand Prix.
>>>
>>
>> lol...all the other teams should protest it, since its obvious if
>> ron let them race, all the other teams would get lapped
>
> er, they did

But not with all their cars :-)
--
John Briggs

Trev

"John Briggs" <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:gWE6i.1750$E9.706@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
> Trev wrote:
>> "RzR" <razorback@stormstrike.org> wrote in message
>> news:f3f13a$e35$1@ss408.t-com.hr...
>>>
>>> "Bob" <bob@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:mn.e3727d75b54b868a.67894@privacy.net...
>>>> http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39420
>>>>
>>>> McLaren are under investigation by Formula 1's governing body, the
>>>> FIA, over a possible breach of F1's sporting code in Sunday's
>>>> Monaco Grand Prix.
>>>>
>>>
>>> lol...all the other teams should protest it, since its obvious if
>>> ron let them race, all the other teams would get lapped
>>
>> er, they did
>
> But not with all their cars :-)
Massa was only 15 second in front of Alonso who had slowed by 2 secs a lap
on the last 20 laps

Bigbird

Trev wrote:

>
> "John Briggs" <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:gWE6i.1750$E9.706@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
> > Trev wrote:
> >>"RzR" <razorback@stormstrike.org> wrote in message
> > > news:f3f13a$e35$1@ss408.t-com.hr...
> > > >
> >>>"Bob" <bob@privacy.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:mn.e3727d75b54b868a.67894@privacy.net...
> > > > > http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39420
> > > > >
> > > > > McLaren are under investigation by Formula 1's governing
> > > > > body, the FIA, over a possible breach of F1's sporting code
> > > > > in Sunday's Monaco Grand Prix.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > lol...all the other teams should protest it, since its obvious
> > > > if ron let them race, all the other teams would get lapped
> > >
> > > er, they did
> >
> > But not with all their cars :-)
> Massa was only 15 second in front of Alonso who had slowed by 2 secs
> a lap on the last 20 laps

Shame really, if they had kept up the pace we might have seen whether
Massa really has what it takes to be Michaels protege.

--

Luigi Topolino

On Mon, 28 May 2007 17:49:00 +0100, "Trev"
<trevbowdenAT.dsl.pipex.COM> wrote:
>"Luigi Topolino" <tifoso@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:7gpl53limi2ds71ndtsern5kkdcs53b11e@4ax.com.. .
>> On Mon, 28 May 2007 09:12:38 -0500, Hell and High Water
>> <tifosoREM@OVEcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>In article <mn.e3727d75b54b868a.67894@privacy.net>, bob@privacy.net
>>>says...
>>>> http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39420
>>>>
>>>> McLaren are under investigation by Formula 1â?=3Fs governing body, the
>>>> FIA,
>>>> over a possible breach of F1â?=3Fs sporting code in Sundayâ?=3Fs Monaco
>>>> Grand
>>>> Prix.
>>>
>>>Team orders were outlawed in F1 following the Austrian GP in 2002,
>>
>> After some 50 years of being integral to the sport.
>>
>> ...Wonder what that was about?
>>
>> "...Luigi follow only the Ferraris."
>
>If you follow the Ferraris you must remember the uproar when Rubi had slow
>and let shumi pass then in the next race Shumi practically stopped before
>the finish line to let Rubi though. Its more they way they did it.

If you follow the sport you'd know that at least one driver was forced
to give up his car in preference of one with a chance to win a
championship and teams have from the start otherwise engineered a
preferred race winner many, many times. The uproar over Ferrari doing
it was never over the practice but over the practitioners.

Of course this recent investigation is merely a sham display of
unpartiality which will no doubt result in a declaration of 'no foul
for McLaren', despite the obvious.


--

"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris."

Trev

"Luigi Topolino" <tifoso@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:q3km53drnn630qgn1tdj728112eos1aqtg@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 28 May 2007 17:49:00 +0100, "Trev"
> <trevbowdenAT.dsl.pipex.COM> wrote:
>>"Luigi Topolino" <tifoso@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>news:7gpl53limi2ds71ndtsern5kkdcs53b11e@4ax.com. ..
>>> On Mon, 28 May 2007 09:12:38 -0500, Hell and High Water
>>> <tifosoREM@OVEcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>>In article <mn.e3727d75b54b868a.67894@privacy.net>, bob@privacy.net
>>>>says...
>>>>> http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39420
>>>>>
>>>>> McLaren are under investigation by Formula 1â?=3Fs governing body, the
>>>>> FIA,
>>>>> over a possible breach of F1â?=3Fs sporting code in Sundayâ?=3Fs
>>>>> Monaco
>>>>> Grand
>>>>> Prix.
>>>>
>>>>Team orders were outlawed in F1 following the Austrian GP in 2002,
>>>
>>> After some 50 years of being integral to the sport.
>>>
>>> ...Wonder what that was about?
>>>
>>> "...Luigi follow only the Ferraris."
>>
>>If you follow the Ferraris you must remember the uproar when Rubi had slow
>>and let shumi pass then in the next race Shumi practically stopped before
>>the finish line to let Rubi though. Its more they way they did it.
>
> If you follow the sport you'd know that at least one driver was forced
> to give up his car in preference of one with a chance to win a
> championship and teams have from the start otherwise engineered a
> preferred race winner many, many times. The uproar over Ferrari doing
> it was never over the practice but over the practitioners.
>
> Of course this recent investigation is merely a sham display of
> unpartiality which will no doubt result in a declaration of 'no foul
> for McLaren', despite the obvious.
>
>
> --
>
My View is that there is nothing wrong with Team rules, that is why they
have a team.
surly its the job of which ever driver is following his team mate to protect
him from the rest of the field.

Mike Swift

In article <RsidnSxFr-dAz8bbnZ2dnUVZ8silnZ2d@pipex.net>, Trev <trevbowde
nAT.dsl.pipex.COM@?.?> writes
> My View is that there is nothing wrong with Team rules, that is why
>they have a team. surly its the job of which ever driver is following
>his team mate to protect him from the rest of the field.

And they could claim they're protecting the engines for the next race or
from blowing up in this, nothing like stopping and letting a team mate
through to win.

Mike

--
Michael Swift We do not regard Englishmen as foreigners.
Kirkheaton We look on them only as rather mad Norwegians.
Yorkshire Halvard Lange

Phil Carmody

"AC" <xxx@xxx.xxx> writes:
> "Bob" <bob@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:mn.e3727d75b54b868a.67894@privacy.net...
> > http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39420
> >
> > McLaren are under investigation by Formula 1's governing body, the
> > FIA, over a possible breach of F1's sporting code in Sunday's Monaco
> > Grand Prix.
>
> I dunno what has happened to F1.
>
> F1 is a team sport. So team orders are inevitable. The only way to
> stop it is to only have 1 car per team.
>
> Its the team that invest millions in the cars. Its the teams that
> employ the drivers. The first priority of any driver should be the
> team, not him self. Thier job is to earn the constuctors championship.
> The drivers championship is the icing on the cake for a driver.
>
> I am no supporter of Alonso, but he won fair and square. Not team
> would have alowed Hamilton to run Alonso down at this point in the
> year. Imagin loosing 18 points in a crash.

You seem to be missing the point that (it is hypothesised that)
Hamilton had so much extra fuel that he could have overtaken
Alonso in the pits, and it was only McLaren pulling him in half
a dozen laps early for his final pit stop that prevented that.

I don't think anyone's criticising RD for telling them not to
take any unnecessary risks. I think it's more for the perceived
manipulation of the result.

Phil
--
"Home taping is killing big business profits. We left this side blank
so you can help." -- Dead Kennedys, written upon the B-side of tapes of
/In God We Trust, Inc./.

noone

In article <RsidnSxFr-dAz8bbnZ2dnUVZ8silnZ2d@pipex.net>,
"Trev" <trevbowdenAT.dsl.pipex.COM> wrote:

> My View is that there is nothing wrong with Team rules, that is why they
> have a team.
> surly its the job of which ever driver is following his team mate to protect
> him from the rest of the field.

Ah, we're back to 1999, are we?

If McLaren keeps winning, look for 10-6-4-3-2-1 to reemerge.

--



..

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

John Smith

"Phil Carmody" <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:87y7j8zanx.fsf@nonospaz.fatphil.org...
> "AC" <xxx@xxx.xxx> writes:
>> "Bob" <bob@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:mn.e3727d75b54b868a.67894@privacy.net...
>> > http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39420
>> >
>> > McLaren are under investigation by Formula 1's governing body, the
>> > FIA, over a possible breach of F1's sporting code in Sunday's Monaco
>> > Grand Prix.
>>
>> I dunno what has happened to F1.
>>
>> F1 is a team sport. So team orders are inevitable. The only way to
>> stop it is to only have 1 car per team.
>>
>> Its the team that invest millions in the cars. Its the teams that
>> employ the drivers. The first priority of any driver should be the
>> team, not him self. Thier job is to earn the constuctors championship.
>> The drivers championship is the icing on the cake for a driver.
>>
>> I am no supporter of Alonso, but he won fair and square. Not team
>> would have alowed Hamilton to run Alonso down at this point in the
>> year. Imagin loosing 18 points in a crash.
>
> You seem to be missing the point that (it is hypothesised that)
> Hamilton had so much extra fuel that he could have overtaken
> Alonso in the pits, and it was only McLaren pulling him in half
> a dozen laps early for his final pit stop that prevented that.
>
> I don't think anyone's criticising RD for telling them not to
> take any unnecessary risks. I think it's more for the perceived
> manipulation of the result.
>
> Phil

So what you are saying is that a team can't change it's strategy during the
race? FA started the race with the odds against his race strategy. If the SC
came out then LH would have won. RD made the right call and should be
allowed to do so imo.

CatharticF1

Bob <bob@privacy.net> wrote in
news:mn.e3727d75b54b868a.67894@privacy.net:

> http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39420
>
> McLaren are under investigation by Formula 1’s governing body, the
> FIA, over a possible breach of F1’s sporting code in Sunday’s
> Monaco Grand Prix.

So how flexible are you all? I mean surely there are only so many issues on
which you can backflip..

I like this part:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59249

(Ron Dennis)

"And we do not and have not manipulated Grands Prix, unless there were some
exceptional circumstances, which occurred, for example, in Australia
[1998], when at that time someone had tapped into our radio and instructed
Mika Hakkinen to enter the pits.

"He entered the pits and I reversed that, because that was unfair, that was
an outside influence on the outcome of the race. That is one of the very
rare occasions that there's been a team order."

Ron must have forgotten Mika's first win in 97 too, huh.

Oh the hypocrisy...!

--
CatharticF1

"Formula 1 - Visible McLaren cheating here now."

ric zito

noone <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:

> Ah, we're back to 1999, are we?
>
> If McLaren keeps winning, look for 10-6-4-3-2-1 to reemerge.

Er, no. Engage your neuron, FFS. Or has it caught a cold?
--
ric at pixelligence dot com

Paul Ian Harman

"Bob" <bob@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:mn.e3727d75b54b868a.67894@privacy.net...
> http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39420
>
> McLaren are under investigation by Formula 1's governing body, the FIA,
> over a possible breach of F1's sporting code in Sunday's Monaco Grand
> Prix.


Whilst I hate the very idea of team orders and wish Ron was not allowed to
do what he did on Sunday... I can't see why this situation was any different
to any other race in the last 20 years where a team was heading for a 1-2
and decided not to throw the result away.

So why are the FIA acting now? Because it looks like McLaren are going to
run away with the championship otherwise? Isn't it a bit early in the season
for the FIA to play those kind of mind games with the teams?

Paul

Geoff Berrow

Message-ID: <87y7j8zanx.fsf@nonospaz.fatphil.org> from Phil Carmody
contained the following:

>> I am no supporter of Alonso, but he won fair and square. Not team
>> would have alowed Hamilton to run Alonso down at this point in the
>> year. Imagin loosing 18 points in a crash.
>
>You seem to be missing the point that (it is hypothesised that)
>Hamilton had so much extra fuel that he could have overtaken
>Alonso in the pits, and it was only McLaren pulling him in half
>a dozen laps early for his final pit stop that prevented that.

Let's assume no team orders. To win, Hamilton would have had to stay
close to Alonso in the first part of the race and then leap frog in the
pit change. But instead Alonso opened up a five second lead fairly
quickly. Now it makes sense to have your team mate acting as a buffer
on a tight circuit like Monaco but it isn't good racing. If Alonso was
simply quicker, then he deserves to win the race.

When it became obvious that no one else was in the frame Lewis seemed to
push. Alonso's response was to pick up the pace also. Again, does it
really make much sense to have team mates racing each other and risking
it all? Not saying I like it much, but I'm not surprised.

I don't have too much of a problem with any of that, Alonso was on pole
after all. However it would annoy me if the situations were reversed
and Alonso was still given a team advantage.

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

ric zito

Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> You seem to be missing the point that (it is hypothesised that)
> Hamilton had so much extra fuel that he could have overtaken
> Alonso in the pits, and it was only McLaren pulling him in half
> a dozen laps early for his final pit stop that prevented that.

Well who's doing the hypothesising? James Allen? I wonder if his
nationalism hasn't got the better of his ability to calculate.

Lewis himself claimed he had five laps more in the first stint - two of
which Fred says he claimed back by saving fuel. Which, given that Fred
has shown that kind of smart car-management many times before, seems
reasonably credible to me. If true, Lewis pitted exactly when expected :
three laps after Fred. Why nobody else has pointed that out is beyond
me.

His first pitstop took 1.4 seconds longer than Fred's. When he finally
pitted again, it was two laps after Fred. Are you suggesting ( "McLaren
pulling him in half a dozen laps early for his final pit stop" ) that he
thus had EIGHT laps extra fuel in the second stint? Does 1.4 seconds
give you that much more fuel? No, it doesn't.

If you take Fred as a comparison, his first stop was 7.5 secs, good for
25 laps. That's 3.33 laps per second. By my calculations, those 1.4 secs
would give Lewis 4.66 laps more fuel. He used two of those, so he was in
fact pulled in only 2-3 laps early.

When he came out of the pits for the final stint, he was some 4 seconds
behind Fred. I don't have the gap just before the stop : I'm assuming it
was around 4 secs. People are suggesting he could've gained 1.5-2.0 secs
a lap in those 2-3 laps and jumped Fred at the second stops. Perhaps.
Although given that their relative speeds at all points during the race
were so much closer than that, I think it unlikely. I think he would've
been on Fred's tail, probably a second or two behind, but not in front.
--
ric at pixelligence dot com

ric zito

Paul Ian Harman <chatterbox@doctorwhowebguide.net> wrote:

> Whilst I hate the very idea of team orders and wish Ron was not allowed to
> do what he did on Sunday... I can't see why this situation was any different
> to any other race in the last 20 years where a team was heading for a 1-2
> and decided not to throw the result away.

Quite so.

> So why are the FIA acting now? Because it looks like McLaren are going to
> run away with the championship otherwise? Isn't it a bit early in the season
> for the FIA to play those kind of mind games with the teams?

Because the British press are howling blue murder, and generally being
obnoxious. Max, no fan of Ron remember, is using that as ammo against
him.
--
ric at pixelligence dot com

Phil Newnham

ric zito wrote:
> When he came out of the pits for the final stint, he was some 4 seconds
> behind Fred. I don't have the gap just before the stop : I'm assuming it
> was around 4 secs. People are suggesting he could've gained 1.5-2.0 secs
> a lap in those 2-3 laps and jumped Fred at the second stops. Perhaps.
> Although given that their relative speeds at all points during the race
> were so much closer than that, I think it unlikely. I think he would've
> been on Fred's tail, probably a second or two behind, but not in front.

He was over 9s adrift before the second stops, and only 4s adrift after.
But, Alonso came out of the pits after his second stop like a man with
time to stop and have a cup of tea at the pitlane exit and clearly was
not in a rush.

--
Phil

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tmc1979/

Phil Newnham

Paul Ian Harman wrote:
> So why are the FIA acting now? Because it looks like McLaren are going to
> run away with the championship otherwise? Isn't it a bit early in the season
> for the FIA to play those kind of mind games with the teams?

In an international marketing exercise that is also a sport, wrongdoing
is much less important than the appearance of wrongdoing.

--
Phil

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tmc1979/

AC

"Phil Carmody" <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:87y7j8zanx.fsf@nonospaz.fatphil.org...
> "AC" <xxx@xxx.xxx> writes:
>> "Bob" <bob@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:mn.e3727d75b54b868a.67894@privacy.net...
>> > http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39420
>> >
>> > McLaren are under investigation by Formula 1's governing body,
>> > the
>> > FIA, over a possible breach of F1's sporting code in Sunday's
>> > Monaco
>> > Grand Prix.
>>
>> I dunno what has happened to F1.
>>
>> F1 is a team sport. So team orders are inevitable. The only way to
>> stop it is to only have 1 car per team.
>>
>> Its the team that invest millions in the cars. Its the teams that
>> employ the drivers. The first priority of any driver should be the
>> team, not him self. Thier job is to earn the constuctors
>> championship.
>> The drivers championship is the icing on the cake for a driver.
>>
>> I am no supporter of Alonso, but he won fair and square. Not team
>> would have alowed Hamilton to run Alonso down at this point in the
>> year. Imagin loosing 18 points in a crash.
>
> You seem to be missing the point that (it is hypothesised that)
> Hamilton had so much extra fuel that he could have overtaken
> Alonso in the pits, and it was only McLaren pulling him in half
> a dozen laps early for his final pit stop that prevented that.
>
> I don't think anyone's criticising RD for telling them not to
> take any unnecessary risks. I think it's more for the perceived
> manipulation of the result.
>
> Phil
> --
> "Home taping is killing big business profits. We left this side
> blank
> so you can help." -- Dead Kennedys, written upon the B-side of tapes
> of
> /In God We Trust, Inc./.

Im guessing you got your fuel info from ITV? Hmm. Far too offen I have
heard Allen say things as fact that are contradicted by what we are
seeing on the screen. While realising that the commentators do a very
hard job, they do get it wrong, a lot.

Now, Mclaren went racing. Not Hamilton. Its not the Hammy show. Its
the Macca show. Either fans understand that or find another formula.
It has ALWAYS been this way, unless you can point so some FIA thingy
that changed this. Public misunderstanding is irrelivent.

Mclaren had the lead and no one else could challenge them. So they
ensured both cars getting home. Simple.

In your world, if it had been Massa been 2nd, FA should have thrashed
the nuts out of the car to stay infront, even though you cant over
take at Monaco. Just so the fan who dont understand F1 can have a
thrill. Would you have had FA tharsh the car if Massa was 20secs
behind with clear air and 10 laps left? No, FA would have still gone
slowly, while the idiots assumed that he was slow and Massa would
catch him. How many false battles haved ended like this.

I think it was Stewart (or perhaps he was quoting some one else) who
said that the point of a GP was to win as slowly as possible. Thats
what Mclaren did.

I might well be missing your point, but you are missing the point of
F1. As I said, its a team sport, and not a driver sport.

And remember, Im NOT a FA fan. If anything Im a Hamilton fan, I would
have loved to see him keep his Monaco record and would love to see him
put FA in his place. But I also understand enough about F1 not to be
bothered by team orders.

Tell me, do you watch football? Do you support a team, or do you
follow a player? Would you support football team orders or let the
players play for thier own ends?

AC

AC

"ric zito" <address@in.sig> wrote in message
news:1hyvc2g.13ax0xa1iiyoN%address@in.sig...
> Paul Ian Harman <chatterbox@doctorwhowebguide.net> wrote:
>
>> Whilst I hate the very idea of team orders and wish Ron was not
>> allowed to
>> do what he did on Sunday... I can't see why this situation was any
>> different
>> to any other race in the last 20 years where a team was heading for
>> a 1-2
>> and decided not to throw the result away.
>
> Quite so.
>
>> So why are the FIA acting now? Because it looks like McLaren are
>> going to
>> run away with the championship otherwise? Isn't it a bit early in
>> the season
>> for the FIA to play those kind of mind games with the teams?
>
> Because the British press are howling blue murder, and generally
> being
> obnoxious. Max, no fan of Ron remember, is using that as ammo
> against
> him.
> --

Exactly.

Im British and theoretically I'm therefor a Hammy fan. But the crap in
the British tabloid press is just skin crawling.

And for sure, its what the FIA are reacting too. And since it looks
*possible* that this could be a runaway Mclaren season , it makes a
warped kinda sense to dock some points now. And hey, this is another
oppertunity for the FIA to earn a nice juicy fine.

AC ( who just used the phrase "for sure". Why am I talking like MS?)

Paul Ian Harman

"ric zito" <address@in.sig> wrote in message
news:1hyv8u7.17o3q26113ne20N%address@in.sig...
> When he came out of the pits for the final stint, he was some 4 seconds
> behind Fred. I don't have the gap just before the stop : I'm assuming it
> was around 4 secs. People are suggesting he could've gained 1.5-2.0 secs
> a lap in those 2-3 laps and jumped Fred at the second stops. Perhaps.


Alonso dropped 2 secs per lap after switching to the supersoft tyres,
although admittedly that could just be him taking it easy because he knew
he'd been granted the win.

Paul

Brian Lawrence

"Luigi Topolino" <tifoso@mindspring.com> wrote:

> If you follow the sport you'd know that at least one driver was forced
> to give up his car in preference of one with a chance to win a
> championship and teams have from the start otherwise engineered a
> preferred race winner many, many times. The uproar over Ferrari doing
> it was never over the practice but over the practitioners.

I don't recall anyone being "forced" to give up their car - particulaly
as some drivers refused to do so. They may have been "asked" to do so,
but usually they volunteered. Of course that was then and this is now -
things change - quite often for the worse.

> Of course this recent investigation is merely a sham display of
> unpartiality which will no doubt result in a declaration of 'no foul
> for McLaren', despite the obvious.

--

Brian

John Briggs

Brian Lawrence wrote:
> "Luigi Topolino" <tifoso@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> If you follow the sport you'd know that at least one driver was
>> forced to give up his car in preference of one with a chance to win a
>> championship and teams have from the start otherwise engineered a
>> preferred race winner many, many times. The uproar over Ferrari
>> doing it was never over the practice but over the practitioners.
>
> I don't recall anyone being "forced" to give up their car -
> particulaly as some drivers refused to do so. They may have been
> "asked" to do so, but usually they volunteered. Of course that was
> then and this is now - things change - quite often for the worse.

I certainly remember Schumacher taking his teammate's car because he thought
it was set up better.
--
John Briggs

Phil Carmody

Bigbird Hater <troll@under.the.bridge> writes:
[SNIP - christ knows, probably nothing of worth]

In so many killfiles, Knight who says "NI", that you
feel the need to morph? Sad, really.

Phil
--
"Home taping is killing big business profits. We left this side blank
so you can help." -- Dead Kennedys, written upon the B-side of tapes of
/In God We Trust, Inc./.

John Briggs

Mike Swift wrote:
> In article <RsidnSxFr-dAz8bbnZ2dnUVZ8silnZ2d@pipex.net>, Trev
> <trevbowde nAT.dsl.pipex.COM@?.?> writes
>> My View is that there is nothing wrong with Team rules, that is why
>> they have a team. surly its the job of which ever driver is following
>> his team mate to protect him from the rest of the field.