Graybags

You've got to remember that Flintoff entered the England side a little green
(especially against spinners). His average for both batting and bowling has
been on the upturn for the last 3 or 4 years. I think he is comfortable a
better batsman than Botham, but a slightly lesser bowler (but that's
changing also). If you compare their 1981 / 2005 performances v Australia,
Freddie has taken something like 9 fewer wickets, and has a similar number
of runs, with 1 innings to go - it could be close (hopefully on both
counts).

Graybags

David Lewis

"Graybags" <gbas@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:3ojiamF63gg2U1@individual.net...
> You've got to remember that Flintoff entered the England side a little
green
> (especially against spinners). His average for both batting and bowling
has
> been on the upturn for the last 3 or 4 years. I think he is comfortable a
> better batsman than Botham, but a slightly lesser bowler (but that's
> changing also). If you compare their 1981 / 2005 performances v Australia,
> Freddie has taken something like 9 fewer wickets, and has a similar number
> of runs, with 1 innings to go - it could be close (hopefully on both
> counts).
>
> Graybags
>
And there were six tests in 1981.

Fred really has been quite extraordinary. Just looking at his bowling,
there have been so many highlights - his fabulous opening over in the 2nd
innings at Edgbaston, getting rid of Langer & Ponting, when Aus looked set
for an easy win, carrying the attack on the last day at Old Trafford and
almost setting up another victory, regularly nullifying Gilchrist, and, of
course, yesterday & today's marathon which has kept us in the game. I would
add that he is facing a much better batting lineup than Beefy did in 1981
and, for the most part, operating in more challenging conditions (for the
bowler, that is).

Cheers

David

Dave Turner

bit early in his career to be comparing him to Botham ...

Graybags

"Dave Turner" <not@dave> wrote in message
news:432518a8$1@quokka.wn.com.au...
> bit early in his career to be comparing him to Botham ...
>
>

Half the number of tests played. That's a fair few.

Graybags

declan_murphy@hotmail.com

Dave Turner wrote:
> bit early in his career to be comparing him to Botham ...

Former Australian captain Kim Hughes has already been comparing him
(quite favourably) to Botham. Hughes played in the 1981 series.
Flintoff has played enough tests to be measured, and has probably been
the key to this series, which England will definitely win. Even though
England are more likely to lose the Ashes in 18 months time, like
Botham, Flintoff's efforts with bat and ball in this series will be
remembered for a long time, as they should be.

Regards Declan,
Okazaki, Japan

Andy Leighton

On 12 Sep 2005 01:36:48 -0700,
declan_murphy@hotmail.com <declan_murphy@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Flintoff has played enough tests to be measured, and has probably been
> the key to this series, which England will definitely win. Even though
> England are more likely to lose the Ashes in 18 months time

I'm not so sure about that. Will McGrath and Warne still be playing.
and if they are will they be bowling well? They will both be nearly 38.
Without them, this series would have likely already been won.

--
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

declan_murphy@hotmail.com

Andy Leighton wrote:
> On 12 Sep 2005 01:36:48 -0700,
> declan_murphy@hotmail.com <declan_murphy@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Flintoff has played enough tests to be measured, and has probably been
> > the key to this series, which England will definitely win. Even though
> > England are more likely to lose the Ashes in 18 months time
>
> I'm not so sure about that. Will McGrath and Warne still be playing.
> and if they are will they be bowling well? They will both be nearly 38.
> Without them, this series would have likely already been won.

I would imagine Warne would still be playing, not sure about McGrath. I
guess with McGrath it will depend to a large extent on how he does this
southern summer. England have to some extent benefited from home ground
advantages this series and the reverse will (also to some extent at
least) apply next time around.

Australia will probably bat a lot better at home than they have this
summer, and I would expect at least 1 or 2 new faces in the team by
then as well. Certainly after this series the next one is going to be
eagerly awaited!

Regards Declan,
Okazaki, Japan

TF

"Graybags" <gbas@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:3oknmmF6c54uU1@individual.net...
>
> "Dave Turner" <not@dave> wrote in message
> news:432518a8$1@quokka.wn.com.au...
>> bit early in his career to be comparing him to Botham ...
>>
>>
>
> Half the number of tests played. That's a fair few.
>
> Graybags

It's interesting to conpare Botham's first 51 tests to his last 51:

Test no's 1-51 2833 runs @ 38.80 with 11 centuries and 10 fifties, 231
wickets @ 23.06
Test no's 52-102 2367 runs @ 28.86 with 3 centuries and 12 fifties, 152
wickets @ 36.50

David Lewis

<declan_murphy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1126522584.484694.38470@o13g2000cwo.googlegro ups.com...
> Andy Leighton wrote:
> > On 12 Sep 2005 01:36:48 -0700,
> > declan_murphy@hotmail.com <declan_murphy@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Flintoff has played enough tests to be measured, and has probably been
> > > the key to this series, which England will definitely win. Even though
> > > England are more likely to lose the Ashes in 18 months time
> >
> > I'm not so sure about that. Will McGrath and Warne still be playing.
> > and if they are will they be bowling well? They will both be nearly 38.
> > Without them, this series would have likely already been won.
>
> I would imagine Warne would still be playing, not sure about McGrath. I
> guess with McGrath it will depend to a large extent on how he does this
> southern summer. England have to some extent benefited from home ground
> advantages this series and the reverse will (also to some extent at
> least) apply next time around.
>
> Australia will probably bat a lot better at home than they have this
> summer, and I would expect at least 1 or 2 new faces in the team by
> then as well. Certainly after this series the next one is going to be
> eagerly awaited!
>
True. The other thing, if we're forecasting is that England may well be
stronger in 2006/07 than they have been this year. Whoever bats at 4 must
make more runs than Bell has in this series, and KP will be well and truly
established as a test cricketer. Simon Jones is still a work-in-progress,
and maybe we can even get Harmison to make a contribution in 18 months time.

Cheers

David

David North

Rob Nevis" <atji06@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:qIydnfUSQ_G6H7neRVnytg@pipex.net...
>dunno if this link is gonna work but :-
>
>http://tinyurl.com/94pze
>
>Makes very interesting reading.
>
>If you now project Flintoff's stats they will read after 102 matches
>
>RUNS 5122 10 hundreds 32 Fifties 276 Wickets TWO 5W hauls !!! - and 68 catches
>
>Of course IRL we can expect Freddy to score more runs and take more wickets but
>he >has to increase that 5 Wicket Haul column a bit.

Well he doubled it on the day you posted this.

Flintoff may not run through the opposition very often, but he is easily
England's most consistent bowler. He has taken at least one wicket in each of
their last 27 Test innings (excluding this afternoon of course), and averaged
under 30 in each of their last seven series.

--
David North
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