Can anyone honestly say....

....that the team I wanted for the first Test - see below - would not
have had the Ashes tied up by now?

Vaughan
Strauss
Key
Trescothick
Thorpe
Flintoff
Foster
Giles
Tremlett*
Hoggard
Harmison

Apart from anything else, it is highly improbable that the 15 chances
missed by Jones and Pietersen would have been missed by Thorpe and
Foster.

Jones has missed 9 chances out of 25, one in three. A Test keeper should
take 9 in ten chances.

* He was bowling well at that point in the season. RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk

"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XgfakGL5yrIDFwGF@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
> ...that the team I wanted for the first Test - see below - would not
> have had the Ashes tied up by now?
>
> Vaughan
> Strauss
> Key
> Trescothick
> Thorpe
> Flintoff
> Foster
> Giles
> Tremlett*
> Hoggard
> Harmison
>
> Apart from anything else, it is highly improbable that the 15 chances
> missed by Jones and Pietersen would have been missed by Thorpe and
> Foster.
>
> Jones has missed 9 chances out of 25, one in three. A Test keeper should
> take 9 in ten chances.
>
> * He was bowling well at that point in the season. RH

Well, yes. You are missing out the impact Jones S has had on the series.
We are really missing him this match. I thinkhe adds a variety that
Tremlett would not.

STC

Robert Henderson wrote:
> ....that the team I wanted for the first Test - see below - would not
> have had the Ashes tied up by now?
>
> Vaughan
> Strauss
> Key
> Trescothick
> Thorpe
> Flintoff
> Foster
> Giles
> Tremlett*
> Hoggard
> Harmison
>
> Apart from anything else, it is highly improbable that the 15 chances
> missed by Jones and Pietersen would have been missed by Thorpe and Foster.
>
> Jones has missed 9 chances out of 25, one in three. A Test keeper should
> take 9 in ten chances.
>
> * He was bowling well at that point in the season. RH

Personally I wouldn't have had Thorpe in the team - this ashes series
will prove to be a great learning experience for some of the newer
players, which will benefit England for years to come. Thorpe has
retired and returned on too many occasions so I can't be certain that he
really has the hunger and motivation any more.

Also agree with the Jones (S) comment made my Man Mountain - Jones has
been immense, and added depth and variety to the attack.

Bell hasn't impressed, maybe Key would have been the better option.

As far as I am concerned Jury is still out on GO Jones - he has played
some key innings at crucial times, but has made some howlers behind the
stumps.

Pietersen has disappointed more than he has impressed and his fielding
is suspect - lots more hard work and practice needed before he becomes a
player of the calibre that he believes he is.

"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XgfakGL5yrIDFwGF@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
> ...that the team I wanted for the first Test - see below - would not have had
> the Ashes tied up by now?
>
> Vaughan
> Strauss
> Key
> Trescothick
> Thorpe
> Flintoff
> Foster
> Giles
> Tremlett*
> Hoggard
> Harmison

Can anyone else find a post where Robert selected this team for the first Test,
because I can't? I found his selection for the second Test, which was the above
team, but with Collingwood replacing Thorpe, and I found another, where he
claimed that he would have picked Key rather than Bell, which was posted after
Bell had been dismissed on the first day of the series, but AFAICS he did not
post this, or any other, selection before the series started; nor did he state,
in any post prior to the first Test, that he would not have picked Bell. Funny
that!
--
David North
Email to this address will be deleted as spam
Use usenetATlaneHYPHENfarm.fsnet.co.uk

In message <3oh2tbF5vrvnU1@individual.net>, David North
<dnorth@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes
>"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:XgfakGL5yrIDFwGF@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>> ...that the team I wanted for the first Test - see below - would not
>>have had
>> the Ashes tied up by now?
>>
>> Vaughan
>> Strauss
>> Key
>> Trescothick
>> Thorpe
>> Flintoff
>> Foster
>> Giles
>> Tremlett*
>> Hoggard
>> Harmison
>
>Can anyone else find a post where Robert selected this team for the
>first Test,
>because I can't? I found his selection for the second Test, which was
>the above
>team, but with Collingwood replacing Thorpe, and I found another, where he
>claimed that he would have picked Key rather than Bell, which was posted after
>Bell had been dismissed on the first day of the series, but AFAICS he did not
>post this, or any other, selection before the series started; nor did
>he state,
>in any post prior to the first Test, that he would not have picked Bell. Funny
>that!

You will find it in a thread started by someone else. RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk

"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:T7YrS$IiIAJDFw$r@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
> In message <3oh2tbF5vrvnU1@individual.net>, David North
> <dnorth@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes
>>"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:XgfakGL5yrIDFwGF@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>>> ...that the team I wanted for the first Test - see below - would not have
>>> had
>>> the Ashes tied up by now?
>>>
>>> Vaughan
>>> Strauss
>>> Key
>>> Trescothick
>>> Thorpe
>>> Flintoff
>>> Foster
>>> Giles
>>> Tremlett*
>>> Hoggard
>>> Harmison
>>
>>Can anyone else find a post where Robert selected this team for the first
>>Test,
>>because I can't? I found his selection for the second Test, which was the
>>above
>>team, but with Collingwood replacing Thorpe, and I found another, where he
>>claimed that he would have picked Key rather than Bell, which was posted after
>>Bell had been dismissed on the first day of the series, but AFAICS he did not
>>post this, or any other, selection before the series started; nor did he
>>state,
>>in any post prior to the first Test, that he would not have picked Bell. Funny
>>that!
>
> You will find it in a thread started by someone else. RH

A Google search would have picked that up. It found the claim about Key in a
thread started by someone else and entitled "Ahem". I did several searches,
including 'Key +Henderson', which would have picked up any post where you
mentioned Key.
--
David North
Email to this address will be deleted as spam
Use usenetATlaneHYPHENfarm.fsnet.co.uk

"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XgfakGL5yrIDFwGF@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
> ...that the team I wanted for the first Test - see below - would not
> have had the Ashes tied up by now?
>
> Vaughan
> Strauss
> Key
> Trescothick
> Thorpe
> Flintoff
> Foster
> Giles
> Tremlett*
> Hoggard
> Harmison
>

I would imagine anyone who's been paying close attention to the series would
differ with you.

I remain fascinated by your assertion that Tresco should bat at 4, thereby
regularly starting against Warne. IIRC, there have been 4 occasions in this
series when he has fallen quickly to Warne after getting a start against the
quicks, and only 2 occasions when he's gone cheaply to the new ball. He's
also been our top scorer, so it beggars belief that your juggling of the
openers would help at all. Vaughan, as has been mentioned previously,
became less effective at the top of the order once he became captain, and
has looked increasingly settled at 3 as this series has progressed. Key for
Bell? Might have done better, but hardly a definite given his performances
in SA. Likewise Thorpe for Pietersen, especially as GP's catching has
hardly been infallible, even if he probably wouldn't have dropped all 6 (nor
reached one of two of them). I'll give you the keeper, although we're both
guessing that he has improved since 2001/02 when he dropped as many as G.
Jones. Of course, the biggest nonsense is the non-selection of S. Jones,
who, at time of writing, has the best average and strike rate of any of our
bowlers. The idea that Tremlett would have done better is fanciful in the
extreme. Perhaps you meant to say that he should have been picked instad of
Harmison.

Or have I missed something?

David

"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XgfakGL5yrIDFwGF@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
> ...that the team I wanted for the first Test - see below - would not
> have had the Ashes tied up by now?
>
> Vaughan
> Strauss
> Key
> Trescothick
> Thorpe
> Flintoff
> Foster
> Giles
> Tremlett*
> Hoggard
> Harmison

Yes, me. You simply have no idea what would have occurred had a different
team been selected, and it is fanciful to suggest otherwise.

We'll have to take your word that the above would have been your choice for
the first Test - it doesn't appear to have been posted here.

<snip>

Andrew

	#1
Robert Henderson	Can anyone honestly say.... ....that the team I wanted for the first Test - see below - would not have had the Ashes tied up by now? Vaughan Strauss Key Trescothick Thorpe Flintoff Foster Giles Tremlett* Hoggard Harmison Apart from anything else, it is highly improbable that the 15 chances missed by Jones and Pietersen would have been missed by Thorpe and Foster. Jones has missed 9 chances out of 25, one in three. A Test keeper should take 9 in ten chances. * He was bowling well at that point in the season. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk

	#2
->Man Mountain	Re: Can anyone honestly say.... "Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:XgfakGL5yrIDFwGF@anywhere.demon.co.uk... > ...that the team I wanted for the first Test - see below - would not > have had the Ashes tied up by now? > > Vaughan > Strauss > Key > Trescothick > Thorpe > Flintoff > Foster > Giles > Tremlett* > Hoggard > Harmison > > Apart from anything else, it is highly improbable that the 15 chances > missed by Jones and Pietersen would have been missed by Thorpe and > Foster. > > Jones has missed 9 chances out of 25, one in three. A Test keeper should > take 9 in ten chances. > > * He was bowling well at that point in the season. RH Well, yes. You are missing out the impact Jones S has had on the series. We are really missing him this match. I thinkhe adds a variety that Tremlett would not. STC

	#3
Stuart Riches	Re: Can anyone honestly say.... Robert Henderson wrote: > ....that the team I wanted for the first Test - see below - would not > have had the Ashes tied up by now? > > Vaughan > Strauss > Key > Trescothick > Thorpe > Flintoff > Foster > Giles > Tremlett* > Hoggard > Harmison > > Apart from anything else, it is highly improbable that the 15 chances > missed by Jones and Pietersen would have been missed by Thorpe and Foster. > > Jones has missed 9 chances out of 25, one in three. A Test keeper should > take 9 in ten chances. > > * He was bowling well at that point in the season. RH Personally I wouldn't have had Thorpe in the team - this ashes series will prove to be a great learning experience for some of the newer players, which will benefit England for years to come. Thorpe has retired and returned on too many occasions so I can't be certain that he really has the hunger and motivation any more. Also agree with the Jones (S) comment made my Man Mountain - Jones has been immense, and added depth and variety to the attack. Bell hasn't impressed, maybe Key would have been the better option. As far as I am concerned Jury is still out on GO Jones - he has played some key innings at crucial times, but has made some howlers behind the stumps. Pietersen has disappointed more than he has impressed and his fielding is suspect - lots more hard work and practice needed before he becomes a player of the calibre that he believes he is.

	#4
David North	Re: Can anyone honestly say.... "Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:XgfakGL5yrIDFwGF@anywhere.demon.co.uk... > ...that the team I wanted for the first Test - see below - would not have had > the Ashes tied up by now? > > Vaughan > Strauss > Key > Trescothick > Thorpe > Flintoff > Foster > Giles > Tremlett* > Hoggard > Harmison Can anyone else find a post where Robert selected this team for the first Test, because I can't? I found his selection for the second Test, which was the above team, but with Collingwood replacing Thorpe, and I found another, where he claimed that he would have picked Key rather than Bell, which was posted after Bell had been dismissed on the first day of the series, but AFAICS he did not post this, or any other, selection before the series started; nor did he state, in any post prior to the first Test, that he would not have picked Bell. Funny that! -- David North Email to this address will be deleted as spam Use usenetATlaneHYPHENfarm.fsnet.co.uk

	#5
Robert Henderson	Re: Can anyone honestly say.... In message <3oh2tbF5vrvnU1@individual.net>, David North <dnorth@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes >"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message >news:XgfakGL5yrIDFwGF@anywhere.demon.co.uk... >> ...that the team I wanted for the first Test - see below - would not >>have had >> the Ashes tied up by now? >> >> Vaughan >> Strauss >> Key >> Trescothick >> Thorpe >> Flintoff >> Foster >> Giles >> Tremlett* >> Hoggard >> Harmison > >Can anyone else find a post where Robert selected this team for the >first Test, >because I can't? I found his selection for the second Test, which was >the above >team, but with Collingwood replacing Thorpe, and I found another, where he >claimed that he would have picked Key rather than Bell, which was posted after >Bell had been dismissed on the first day of the series, but AFAICS he did not >post this, or any other, selection before the series started; nor did >he state, >in any post prior to the first Test, that he would not have picked Bell. Funny >that! You will find it in a thread started by someone else. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk

	#7
David Lewis	Re: Can anyone honestly say.... "Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:XgfakGL5yrIDFwGF@anywhere.demon.co.uk... > ...that the team I wanted for the first Test - see below - would not > have had the Ashes tied up by now? > > Vaughan > Strauss > Key > Trescothick > Thorpe > Flintoff > Foster > Giles > Tremlett* > Hoggard > Harmison > I would imagine anyone who's been paying close attention to the series would differ with you. I remain fascinated by your assertion that Tresco should bat at 4, thereby regularly starting against Warne. IIRC, there have been 4 occasions in this series when he has fallen quickly to Warne after getting a start against the quicks, and only 2 occasions when he's gone cheaply to the new ball. He's also been our top scorer, so it beggars belief that your juggling of the openers would help at all. Vaughan, as has been mentioned previously, became less effective at the top of the order once he became captain, and has looked increasingly settled at 3 as this series has progressed. Key for Bell? Might have done better, but hardly a definite given his performances in SA. Likewise Thorpe for Pietersen, especially as GP's catching has hardly been infallible, even if he probably wouldn't have dropped all 6 (nor reached one of two of them). I'll give you the keeper, although we're both guessing that he has improved since 2001/02 when he dropped as many as G. Jones. Of course, the biggest nonsense is the non-selection of S. Jones, who, at time of writing, has the best average and strike rate of any of our bowlers. The idea that Tremlett would have done better is fanciful in the extreme. Perhaps you meant to say that he should have been picked instad of Harmison. Or have I missed something? David

	#8
Andrew Dunford	Re: Can anyone honestly say.... "Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:XgfakGL5yrIDFwGF@anywhere.demon.co.uk... > ...that the team I wanted for the first Test - see below - would not > have had the Ashes tied up by now? > > Vaughan > Strauss > Key > Trescothick > Thorpe > Flintoff > Foster > Giles > Tremlett* > Hoggard > Harmison Yes, me. You simply have no idea what would have occurred had a different team been selected, and it is fanciful to suggest otherwise. We'll have to take your word that the above would have been your choice for the first Test - it doesn't appear to have been posted here. <snip> Andrew