Ben Stevenson

"altheim" <altheim@spamblokfreeuk.com> wrote in message
news:1056355444.27123.1@despina.uk.clara.net...
>
> "Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > OK , a word of caution, I think that 'evil' as such is just as likely in
any
> > shape or form, and can be found in churches, greengrocers , anywhere,
> > the problem is Pagananism being mis-used, nisunderstood ,
> > and for people to be completely aware and armed with
> > Knowledge,
> > when I first started doing clairvoyance, about 20 years ago,
> > I was inundated with people who had been actively attacked by black
magic,
> > at first this alarmed me,
> > and like a lot of people , [I guess] I wondered about the victims
sanity.
> > But after many case |I decided to research it.
> > I started with the Golden Bough, then went on to Dion Fortune
> > [Psychic self-defence] the more I read the more I realised just how
> > insidious and horribly alive and well this withcraft was.
> > Very naive people were describing to me absolutely classic symptoms of
> > psychic attack, possession, hauntings, etc.
> > in details which stunned me.
> > Things it had taken me a year of research to find out about,
> > things they would never have guessed.
> > I started to realise that , yes , it does happen, and people need to be
> > educated in self-protection, usually a complex and intricate
> > time-consuming set of rituals and visualisations,
> > One of the biggest problems is the way in which withcraft attacks,
> > it can be so subtle to begin with,
> > so now , as I say proceed with caution,
> [...]
>
> Sceptical - though ignorant - as I am in regards to witchcraft I feel
> that there is no way that I could be harmed (so what need would I
> have of protection). Do you think that witchcraft, if used against
> someone with evil intent, can harm disbelievers?

I don't think witches have any power at all. Its the fear factor people have
of them, that scares them of the witches' doings. If at all witches have any
power, why didn't this power save them from being burnt at the stake in the
dark ages a few centuries ago.

Ben

AMWP Center for Enlightenment

--
"The kind of man to make attacks on
Should NEVER be an Anglo Sax-on"
Burmashave.
"Ben Stevenson" <nospam@firemail.com> wrote in message
news:3efdc4d0$1@news.starhub.net.sg...
>
>
> "altheim" <altheim@spamblokfreeuk.com> wrote in message
> news:1056355444.27123.1@despina.uk.clara.net...
> >
> > "Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > OK , a word of caution, I think that 'evil' as such is just as likely
in
> any
> > > shape or form, and can be found in churches, greengrocers , anywhere,
> > > the problem is Pagananism being mis-used, nisunderstood ,
> > > and for people to be completely aware and armed with
> > > Knowledge,
> > > when I first started doing clairvoyance, about 20 years ago,
> > > I was inundated with people who had been actively attacked by black
> magic,
> > > at first this alarmed me,
> > > and like a lot of people , [I guess] I wondered about the victims
> sanity.
> > > But after many case |I decided to research it.
> > > I started with the Golden Bough, then went on to Dion Fortune
> > > [Psychic self-defence] the more I read the more I realised just how
> > > insidious and horribly alive and well this withcraft was.
> > > Very naive people were describing to me absolutely classic symptoms of
> > > psychic attack, possession, hauntings, etc.
> > > in details which stunned me.
> > > Things it had taken me a year of research to find out about,
> > > things they would never have guessed.
> > > I started to realise that , yes , it does happen, and people need to
be
> > > educated in self-protection, usually a complex and intricate
> > > time-consuming set of rituals and visualisations,
> > > One of the biggest problems is the way in which withcraft attacks,
> > > it can be so subtle to begin with,
> > > so now , as I say proceed with caution,
> > [...]
> >
> > Sceptical - though ignorant - as I am in regards to witchcraft I feel
> > that there is no way that I could be harmed (so what need would I
> > have of protection). Do you think that witchcraft, if used against
> > someone with evil intent, can harm disbelievers?
>
> I don't think witches have any power at all. Its the fear factor people
have
> of them, that scares them of the witches' doings. If at all witches have
any
> power, why didn't this power save them from being burnt at the stake in
the
> dark ages a few centuries ago.
>
> Ben

They were burnt because it was their DESTINY. AMWP.

Evil Noodle

"Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:bdkokn$iff$1@titan.btinternet.com...
>
> "Ben Stevenson" <nospam@firemail.com> wrote in message
> news:3efdc4d0$1@news.starhub.net.sg...
> >
> >
> > "altheim" <altheim@spamblokfreeuk.com> wrote in message
> > news:1056355444.27123.1@despina.uk.clara.net...
> > >
> > > "Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com> wrote:

<snip>

> BUT it is growing , and unfortunately this time round there is a
> new strain or type of witch.
> These are not nice little herbalists , but often power hungry people
> who find that witchcraft can be used, can work, and are
> unscrupulous enough to use it for bad things.
>
> Gea

I can't really see this as being anything new, human nature dictates
that we will use whatever is at our disposal to achieve our ends.
Nothing new there, but centuries ago it would have been a lot safer
to achieve power through or with the church, even today I can't
imagine it would be a positive step to disclose an interest in this.

Ben Stevenson

"AMWP Center for Enlightenment" <k35454@direct.ca> wrote in message
news:vfri2ea8uatn62@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
> --
> "The kind of man to make attacks on
> Should NEVER be an Anglo Sax-on"
> Burmashave.
> "Ben Stevenson" <nospam@firemail.com> wrote in message
> news:3efdc4d0$1@news.starhub.net.sg...
> >
> >
> > "altheim" <altheim@spamblokfreeuk.com> wrote in message
> > news:1056355444.27123.1@despina.uk.clara.net...
> > >
> > > "Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > > OK , a word of caution, I think that 'evil' as such is just as
likely
> in
> > any
> > > > shape or form, and can be found in churches, greengrocers ,
anywhere,
> > > > the problem is Pagananism being mis-used, nisunderstood ,
> > > > and for people to be completely aware and armed with
> > > > Knowledge,
> > > > when I first started doing clairvoyance, about 20 years ago,
> > > > I was inundated with people who had been actively attacked by black
> > magic,
> > > > at first this alarmed me,
> > > > and like a lot of people , [I guess] I wondered about the victims
> > sanity.
> > > > But after many case |I decided to research it.
> > > > I started with the Golden Bough, then went on to Dion Fortune
> > > > [Psychic self-defence] the more I read the more I realised just how
> > > > insidious and horribly alive and well this withcraft was.
> > > > Very naive people were describing to me absolutely classic symptoms
of
> > > > psychic attack, possession, hauntings, etc.
> > > > in details which stunned me.
> > > > Things it had taken me a year of research to find out about,
> > > > things they would never have guessed.
> > > > I started to realise that , yes , it does happen, and people need to
> be
> > > > educated in self-protection, usually a complex and intricate
> > > > time-consuming set of rituals and visualisations,
> > > > One of the biggest problems is the way in which withcraft attacks,
> > > > it can be so subtle to begin with,
> > > > so now , as I say proceed with caution,
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > Sceptical - though ignorant - as I am in regards to witchcraft I feel
> > > that there is no way that I could be harmed (so what need would I
> > > have of protection). Do you think that witchcraft, if used against
> > > someone with evil intent, can harm disbelievers?
> >
> > I don't think witches have any power at all. Its the fear factor people
> have
> > of them, that scares them of the witches' doings. If at all witches have
> any
> > power, why didn't this power save them from being burnt at the stake in
> the
> > dark ages a few centuries ago.
> >
> > Ben
>
> They were burnt because it was their DESTINY.

Of course, Everything can be attributed to destiny. The question was do the
witches have any power. My answer is no.

Ben

altheim

"Evil Noodle" <evil.noodle@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> "Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > "Ben Stevenson" <nospam@firemail.com> wrote:
> > > "Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > > "Ben Stevenson" <nospam@firemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > "altheim" <altheim@spamblokfreeuk.com> wrote:
> > > > > > "Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > What makes you say that ?
> > Gea
>
> Gea, do you like hitting wasps nests with sticks too?
> If you were familiar with Ben's posts in alt.religion.spiritualism,
> you wouldn't have asked .
> Perhaps you'd like to share your delusional beliefs with Ben and
> provide examples (all properly varified of course) ;-)
> In short, if Ben can't get it in a lab, see it for himself many times for
> a correct empirical investigation and prod and dissect it, it ain't real.

But surely that is a reasonable stance to take. After all if
paranormal activity can be invoked by a voodoo ritual then
it ought to be possible to invoke it in the laboratory.

Ok, I'm aware of the inhibiting effect of observers in the lab,
and of the presence of sceptics but if the voodoo ritual works
then they must be doing something right and it ought to be
possible for researchers to emulate it.

--
altheim

Evil Noodle

"altheim" <altheim@spamblokfreeuk.com> wrote in message
news:1056927009.19805.1@iris.uk.clara.net...
>
> "Evil Noodle" <evil.noodle@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > "Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > "Ben Stevenson" <nospam@firemail.com> wrote:
> > > > "Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > > > "Ben Stevenson" <nospam@firemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > "altheim" <altheim@spamblokfreeuk.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > "Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > What makes you say that ?
> > > Gea
> >
> > Gea, do you like hitting wasps nests with sticks too?
> > If you were familiar with Ben's posts in alt.religion.spiritualism,
> > you wouldn't have asked .
> > Perhaps you'd like to share your delusional beliefs with Ben and
> > provide examples (all properly varified of course) ;-)
> > In short, if Ben can't get it in a lab, see it for himself many times
for
> > a correct empirical investigation and prod and dissect it, it ain't
real.
>
> But surely that is a reasonable stance to take. After all if
> paranormal activity can be invoked by a voodoo ritual then
> it ought to be possible to invoke it in the laboratory.

IMO it's not unreasonable depending on the reasonableness of
those doing the research.

> Ok, I'm aware of the inhibiting effect of observers in the lab,
> and of the presence of sceptics but if the voodoo ritual works
> then they must be doing something right and it ought to be
> possible for researchers to emulate it.
>
> --
> altheim

And in the case of certain Voodoo rituals I guess I'd want to know
why you would want to?

altheim

"Evil Noodle" <evil.noodle@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> "altheim" <altheim@spamblokfreeuk.com> wrote:
> > "Evil Noodle" <evil.noodle@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > > "Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > > "Ben Stevenson" <nospam@firemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > "Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > > > > "Ben Stevenson" <nospam@firemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > "altheim" <altheim@spamblokfreeuk.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > "Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > What makes you say that ?
> > > > Gea
> > >
> > > Gea, do you like hitting wasps nests with sticks too?
> > > If you were familiar with Ben's posts in alt.religion.spiritualism,
> > > you wouldn't have asked .
> > > Perhaps you'd like to share your delusional beliefs with Ben and
> > > provide examples (all properly varified of course) ;-)
> > > In short, if Ben can't get it in a lab, see it for himself many times
> for
> > > a correct empirical investigation and prod and dissect it, it ain't
> real.
> >
> > But surely that is a reasonable stance to take. After all if
> > paranormal activity can be invoked by a voodoo ritual then
> > it ought to be possible to invoke it in the laboratory.
>
> IMO it's not unreasonable depending on the reasonableness of
> those doing the research.
>
> > Ok, I'm aware of the inhibiting effect of observers in the lab,
> > and of the presence of sceptics but if the voodoo ritual works
> > then they must be doing something right and it ought to be
> > possible for researchers to emulate it.
> >
> And in the case of certain Voodoo rituals I guess I'd want to know
> why you would want to?
>
Eh? Oh I see what you mean.

Don' worry. You're all safe, for now. I'm only interested in
how it works <g>

--
altheim

Evil Noodle

"altheim" <altheim@spamblokfreeuk.com> wrote in message
news:1057011604.55428.1@echo.uk.clara.net...
>
> "Evil Noodle" <evil.noodle@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > "altheim" <altheim@spamblokfreeuk.com> wrote:
> > > "Evil Noodle" <evil.noodle@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > > > "Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > > > "Ben Stevenson" <nospam@firemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > "Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > "Ben Stevenson" <nospam@firemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > "altheim" <altheim@spamblokfreeuk.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > "Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > > What makes you say that ?
> > > > > Gea
> > > >
> > > > Gea, do you like hitting wasps nests with sticks too?
> > > > If you were familiar with Ben's posts in alt.religion.spiritualism,
> > > > you wouldn't have asked .
> > > > Perhaps you'd like to share your delusional beliefs with Ben and
> > > > provide examples (all properly varified of course) ;-)
> > > > In short, if Ben can't get it in a lab, see it for himself many
times
> > for
> > > > a correct empirical investigation and prod and dissect it, it ain't
> > real.
> > >
> > > But surely that is a reasonable stance to take. After all if
> > > paranormal activity can be invoked by a voodoo ritual then
> > > it ought to be possible to invoke it in the laboratory.
> >
> > IMO it's not unreasonable depending on the reasonableness of
> > those doing the research.
> >
> > > Ok, I'm aware of the inhibiting effect of observers in the lab,
> > > and of the presence of sceptics but if the voodoo ritual works
> > > then they must be doing something right and it ought to be
> > > possible for researchers to emulate it.
> > >
> > And in the case of certain Voodoo rituals I guess I'd want to know
> > why you would want to?
> >
> Eh? Oh I see what you mean.
>
> Don' worry. You're all safe, for now. I'm only interested in
> how it works <g>
>
> --
> altheim

Hmmm, you sure there isn't a little doll with my name on it?

Therion Ware

On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:48:43 +0000 (UTC) in alt.atheism, Gea Jones
("Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism



[snip]

>Really ?
>I do know it is a very secretive thing , though, a friend of mine was
>researching a programme on modern day witchcraft and found it impossible to
>get anyone to talk on camera,

Really? It must be them. Normally it's practically impossible to keep
them off the screen.
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 **

Ben Stevenson

"suzee" <suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote in message
news:3F02469A.614F8A96@nidlink.com...
> Therion Ware wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:48:43 +0000 (UTC) in alt.atheism, Gea Jones
> > ("Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com>) said, directing the reply to
> > alt.atheism
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > >Really ?
> > >I do know it is a very secretive thing , though, a friend of mine was
> > >researching a programme on modern day witchcraft and found it
impossible to
> > >get anyone to talk on camera,
> >
> > Really? It must be them. Normally it's practically impossible to keep
> > them off the screen.
>
> I think the ones who really can do these things are quiet about it. The
> ones you see promoting themselves don't have much, if any, ability.

You're right about the ones promoting themselves having no ability, just
seeking the publicity. But if there ARE actually ones who can really do
and hide it, how will anyone be able to say that it exists? There is enough
technology in today's world that if anyone makes a claim, he'll have to
prove it or substantiate it. Technology can measure the unseen easily, ie,
wind, radio waves, x-rays etc. Even thoughts can now be observed by
MRI brain scans.

Its just like the Arc of The Covenant reputed to be in a church in Ethiopia.
The researchers had such a very hard time as they went from church to
church all over the country, and in each church the priests said that they
have it in a barricaded room, but no one is permitted to see it, as its
immense power will incinerate those who dare go in. Thousands of
churches in Ethiopia claim to have it, and the researchers had to finally
proclaim that it was all a wild goose chase that they were being led on
by the priests in the churches, a hogwash and a huge hoax, and none of
them have it.

Ben

suzee

Ben Stevenson wrote:
>
> "suzee" <suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote in message
> news:3F02469A.614F8A96@nidlink.com...
> > Therion Ware wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:48:43 +0000 (UTC) in alt.atheism, Gea Jones
> > > ("Gea Jones" <Geajones@btinternet.com>) said, directing the reply to
> > > alt.atheism
> > >
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > > >Really ?
> > > >I do know it is a very secretive thing , though, a friend of mine was
> > > >researching a programme on modern day witchcraft and found it
> impossible to
> > > >get anyone to talk on camera,
> > >
> > > Really? It must be them. Normally it's practically impossible to keep
> > > them off the screen.
> >
> > I think the ones who really can do these things are quiet about it. The
> > ones you see promoting themselves don't have much, if any, ability.
>
> You're right about the ones promoting themselves having no ability, just
> seeking the publicity. But if there ARE actually ones who can really do
> and hide it, how will anyone be able to say that it exists? There is enough
> technology in today's world that if anyone makes a claim, he'll have to
> prove it or substantiate it. Technology can measure the unseen easily, ie,
> wind, radio waves, x-rays etc. Even thoughts can now be observed by
> MRI brain scans.
>
> Its just like the Arc of The Covenant reputed to be in a church in Ethiopia.
> The researchers had such a very hard time as they went from church to
> church all over the country, and in each church the priests said that they
> have it in a barricaded room, but no one is permitted to see it, as its
> immense power will incinerate those who dare go in. Thousands of
> churches in Ethiopia claim to have it, and the researchers had to finally
> proclaim that it was all a wild goose chase that they were being led on
> by the priests in the churches, a hogwash and a huge hoax, and none of
> them have it.

I've heard it was a condition of allowing the Ethiopian jews to emigrate
to Israel that the Ark come with them...

sue