Re: Out of body experience medically reproduced?

Ben Stevenson writes:

> Only Science Is Of The FACT. and is REPEATABLE and TESTABLE.

And that is its failing in the realm of the metaphysical, because
metaphysical phenomena can be quite real, and yet not repeatable or
testable.

It's a good working assumption for most things, though.

> Since you spend so much time repudiating what the
> scientists do and give all kinds of excuses to declare
> them failures, why don't you organise an experiment to
> show the validity or existence of the OOBs, spirits, spirit
> guides etc. I'm sure lots of people would be pleased to
> attend.

Nobody knows how to set up such an experiment, since a reliable method
for forcing OOBEs or interactions with spirits has not been found.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@hotmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism

> Elroy Willis writes:

>> Some of the testimonials are pretty interesting.

> Sometimes there are multiple ways to reach a destination.

What's yours?

> Anyway, I value my physical brain too much to try fooling around with it
> in order to induce an OOBE, assuming that is even possible.

It's been proven that it's possible by several people.

> I'll have plenty of time to explore the subject when I die.

How? You'll be dead!

--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news

Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@hotmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism

> Elroy Willis writes:

>> What's yours?

> I've already described my theories.

>> It's been proven that it's possible by several people.

> Metaphysical phenomena are not subject to physical proofs.

Isn't that the same as saying that you'll accept no proof that
they have a physical explanation?

--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news

Elroy Willis writes:

> Isn't that the same as saying that you'll accept
> no proof that they have a physical explanation?

I need a proof that explains what I am experiencing right now. It may
or may not be a physical proof. Currently I don't see how a physical
proof would work, since physical proofs do not address experience. But
I'm open to ideas.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Elroy Willis writes:

> What do you think of the other animals you see
> around you?
>
> All stupid with no consciousness at all?

They are probably conscious, IMO, but I don't really know.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9lcdgv4fjbg8rg9heu8hh4dajultc1ejpn@4ax.com...
> Ben Stevenson writes:
>
> > Only Science Is Of The FACT. and is REPEATABLE and TESTABLE.
>
> And that is its failing in the realm of the metaphysical, because
> metaphysical phenomena can be quite real, and yet not repeatable or
> testable.

Maybe someday someone will show us the metaphysical. Until then ..........
............ we'll have to wait.
>
> It's a good working assumption for most things, though.
>
> > Since you spend so much time repudiating what the
> > scientists do and give all kinds of excuses to declare
> > them failures, why don't you organise an experiment to
> > show the validity or existence of the OOBs, spirits, spirit
> > guides etc. I'm sure lots of people would be pleased to
> > attend.
>
> Nobody knows how to set up such an experiment, since a reliable method
> for forcing OOBEs or interactions with spirits has not been found.

But there are various people who claim to have such interactions quite
often, or even on demand.

Ben

"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vubggvgdsh9hvjhmc32n3fc9frgokham7g@4ax.com...
> Elroy Willis writes:
>
> > Some of the testimonials are pretty interesting.
>
> Sometimes there are multiple ways to reach a destination.
>
> Anyway, I value my physical brain too much to try fooling around with it
> in order to induce an OOBE, assuming that is even possible. I'll have
> plenty of time to explore the subject when I die.

Try it. There'll be no damage to the brain. They can feed you Ketamine to
give you the NDE experience or soft electrodes on your head feeding low
level electro-magnetism to give you the OBE experience. You will then change
your views and accept that since these events can be manufactured by
scientists, they are purely internals. No soul or anything of that sort left
the body.

Ben

Ben Stevenson writes:

> You will then change your views and accept that
> since these events can be manufactured by scientists,
> they are purely internals. No soul or anything of
> that sort left the body.

Even if these methods created the illusion of an OBE or NDE, that does
not mean that the real thing doesn't exist.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Ben Stevenson writes:

> But there are various people who claim to have such
> interactions quite often, or even on demand.

I'm extremely wary of such claims. The cases that sound the most
convincing are also the most spontaneous.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

"Ben Stevenson" <nospam@firemail.com> wrote:

>There'll be no damage to the brain. They can feed you Ketamine ...

There are indications that ketamine will cause brain damage.

>... to give you the OBE experience. You will then change
>your views

When superficial simulations of out of body experiences are induced, they
rarely, if ever, lead to a change of views.

Elf M. Sternberg <elf@drizzle.com> wrote:

>To assume that "X exists" without first exahusting the more
>reasonable and mundane explanations for the supposition X is
>irresponsible.

To use the label "reasonable" takes the argument into the realm of propping
up your personal beliefs. If you find "mundane" explanations to be
"reasonable", it's because they support that which you wish to be true,
thereby alleviating you of the responsibility of examing things in depth.

"CAndersen (Kimba)" <KimbaWLion@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d3hkgv8q17ig9sl15cltoprf22jm2ecnb5@4ax.com...
> "Ben Stevenson" <nospam@firemail.com> wrote:
>
> >Scientists can create these NDEs or OBEs on demand.
>
> You keep saying the same thing over and over, Ben. It's still not true.

Its clearly been shown, so no point for you to continue to deny it.
So long as the same subject comes up again, it'll be my same answer again.
There are those who have just come in and are unaware of previous posts on
the subject. It is for them.

Ben

"CAndersen (Kimba)" <KimbaWLion@aol.com> wrote in message
news:6pgkgvcu72adtr42dvbd6rjc4hrlvjlsu3@4ax.com...
> "Ben Stevenson" <nospam@firemail.com> wrote:
>
> >There'll be no damage to the brain. They can feed you Ketamine ...
>
> There are indications that ketamine will cause brain damage.

It definitely can, but to the tune of the drug hookers on the street. But
I'm talking about the substance under strict control in the lab. Most drugs
that you buy over the counter could be highly damaging if you didn't observe
the dosage recommendation.

> >... to give you the OBE experience. You will then change
> >your views
>
> When superficial simulations of out of body experiences are induced, they
rarely, if ever, lead to a change of views.

Its not superficial. Its the OOB that people think they have that is
superficial. Its imaginary. The one created in the lab is a REAL internal
experience. Thereby scientists prove that it is actually an internal event
which people mistake to be an external. Even the hooker lying on the street
with a Ketamine intake may think it is a real experience, but the scientists
have shown that it is not.

Ben

Ben Stevenson <nospam@firemail.com> wrote in alt.atheism

> Even the hooker lying on the street with a Ketamine intake may
> think it is a real experience, but the scientists have shown that it is not.

What this?

--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news

"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:ni5mgvgaated3f50jnj9ps2j93bo0rcfsr@4ax.com...
> Ben Stevenson <nospam@firemail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
>
> > Even the hooker lying on the street with a Ketamine intake may
> > think it is a real experience, but the scientists have shown that it is
not.
>
> What this?

What to what?

Would it be better if I replaced hooker with drug addict?

Ben

Ben Stevenson <nospam@firemail.com> wrote in alt.atheism

> Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
>> Ben Stevenson <nospam@firemail.com> wrote in alt.atheism

>>> Even the hooker lying on the street with a Ketamine intake may
>>> think it is a real experience, but the scientists have shown that it is
>>> not.

>> What this?

> What to what?

> Would it be better if I replaced hooker with drug addict?

Yeah, not all hookers are drug addicts.

--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news

"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:uavogv062cu0hvorglskh2pukqohffn65l@4ax.com...
> Ben Stevenson <nospam@firemail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
>
> > Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
> >> Ben Stevenson <nospam@firemail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
>
> >>> Even the hooker lying on the street with a Ketamine intake may
> >>> think it is a real experience, but the scientists have shown that it
is
> >>> not.
>
> >> What this?
>
> > What to what?
>
> > Would it be better if I replaced hooker with drug addict?
>
> Yeah, not all hookers are drug addicts.

I suppose you're aware of the Ketamine effect.

Ben

"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:uavogv062cu0hvorglskh2pukqohffn65l@4ax.com...
> Ben Stevenson <nospam@firemail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
>
> > Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
> >> Ben Stevenson <nospam@firemail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
>
> >>> Even the hooker lying on the street with a Ketamine intake may
> >>> think it is a real experience, but the scientists have shown that it
is
> >>> not.
>
> >> What this?
>
> > What to what?
>
> > Would it be better if I replaced hooker with drug addict?
>
> Yeah, not all hookers are drug addicts.

In as much as 'Not all drug addicts are hookers'

Ed.......................(Oldguyteck)
>
> --
> Elroy Willis
> EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
> http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news

	#1
Mxsmanic	Re: Out of body experience medically reproduced? Ben Stevenson writes: > Only Science Is Of The FACT. and is REPEATABLE and TESTABLE. And that is its failing in the realm of the metaphysical, because metaphysical phenomena can be quite real, and yet not repeatable or testable. It's a good working assumption for most things, though. > Since you spend so much time repudiating what the > scientists do and give all kinds of excuses to declare > them failures, why don't you organise an experiment to > show the validity or existence of the OOBs, spirits, spirit > guides etc. I'm sure lots of people would be pleased to > attend. Nobody knows how to set up such an experiment, since a reliable method for forcing OOBEs or interactions with spirits has not been found. -- Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

	#2
Elroy Willis	Re: Out of body experience medically reproduced? Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@hotmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism > Elroy Willis writes: >> Some of the testimonials are pretty interesting. > Sometimes there are multiple ways to reach a destination. What's yours? > Anyway, I value my physical brain too much to try fooling around with it > in order to induce an OOBE, assuming that is even possible. It's been proven that it's possible by several people. > I'll have plenty of time to explore the subject when I die. How? You'll be dead! -- Elroy Willis EAP Chief Editor and Newshound http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news

	#6
Ben Stevenson	Re: Out of body experience medically reproduced? "Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:9lcdgv4fjbg8rg9heu8hh4dajultc1ejpn@4ax.com... > Ben Stevenson writes: > > > Only Science Is Of The FACT. and is REPEATABLE and TESTABLE. > > And that is its failing in the realm of the metaphysical, because > metaphysical phenomena can be quite real, and yet not repeatable or > testable. Maybe someday someone will show us the metaphysical. Until then .......... ............ we'll have to wait. > > It's a good working assumption for most things, though. > > > Since you spend so much time repudiating what the > > scientists do and give all kinds of excuses to declare > > them failures, why don't you organise an experiment to > > show the validity or existence of the OOBs, spirits, spirit > > guides etc. I'm sure lots of people would be pleased to > > attend. > > Nobody knows how to set up such an experiment, since a reliable method > for forcing OOBEs or interactions with spirits has not been found. But there are various people who claim to have such interactions quite often, or even on demand. Ben

	#10
CAndersen (Kimba)	Re: Out of body experience medically reproduced? "Ben Stevenson" <nospam@firemail.com> wrote: >There'll be no damage to the brain. They can feed you Ketamine ... There are indications that ketamine will cause brain damage. >... to give you the OBE experience. You will then change >your views When superficial simulations of out of body experiences are induced, they rarely, if ever, lead to a change of views.

	#18
OldguyTeck	Re: Out of body experience medically reproduced? "Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message news:uavogv062cu0hvorglskh2pukqohffn65l@4ax.com... > Ben Stevenson <nospam@firemail.com> wrote in alt.atheism > > > Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message > >> Ben Stevenson <nospam@firemail.com> wrote in alt.atheism > > >>> Even the hooker lying on the street with a Ketamine intake may > >>> think it is a real experience, but the scientists have shown that it is > >>> not. > > >> What this? > > > What to what? > > > Would it be better if I replaced hooker with drug addict? > > Yeah, not all hookers are drug addicts. In as much as 'Not all drug addicts are hookers' Ed.......................(Oldguyteck) > > -- > Elroy Willis > EAP Chief Editor and Newshound > http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news