Re: Flash!! REFERENCE TO DIVINE TO STAY IN PLEDGE

"LeMod Pol" <mod_pol@igs.net> wrote in message
news:40CF615E.DE749E34@igs.net...
>
> Actually the pledge does not say who's g-d and thus
> dodges the establishment problem, rather neatly.
>

I tend to disagree with the term "GOD" being seen as generic. Perhaps
Jodeo-Christian religion is SO pervasive in western culture that we don't
notice that Judeo-Christian religions are the ONLY ones who refer to their
supreme being using the word "God". All other religions use the specific
terms ie. Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Allah, etc. I believe that the use of the
word "GOD" does favor one specific religion over another.

The phraze "Under God" was added to the pledge after the fact as a test of
patriotism. The theory was that anyone who is an atheist/communist could not
pledge allegience to the US because of their religious beliefs, or lack
thereof and could, therefore, be "rooted out" from the herd. To me, that
respects the establishment of Judeo-Christian religions. But then again, I'm
not one of the Supremes.
Gregory

"Gregory Franklyn" <gregoryf@zcloud.net> wrote in message
news:10ej0je8n5qn066@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "LeMod Pol" <mod_pol@igs.net> wrote in message
> news:40CF615E.DE749E34@igs.net...
> >
> > Actually the pledge does not say who's g-d and thus
> > dodges the establishment problem, rather neatly.
> >
>
> I tend to disagree with the term "GOD" being seen as generic.

That is your problem.

Gregory Franklyn wrote:
>
> "LeMod Pol" <mod_pol@igs.net> wrote in message
> news:40CF615E.DE749E34@igs.net...
> >
> > Actually the pledge does not say who's g-d and thus
> > dodges the establishment problem, rather neatly.
> >
>
> I tend to disagree with the term "GOD" being seen as generic. Perhaps
> Jodeo-Christian religion is SO pervasive in western culture that we don't
> notice that Judeo-Christian religions are the ONLY ones who refer to their
> supreme being using the word "God".

not at all true - that is only the english name for
the divine. jews are forbidden to speak the name of
the Divine, and so use a number of pseudonyms (G-d,
Hashem, etc) depending on the language spoken. Xians
might use Dieu, Gott, Deus, Dominum, etc.

So you have jumped into a dead thread without really
knowing whereof you speak.

A propos your previous post. Those absolutist xians
either have not read their bibles through or they are
using badly edited 3rd or 4th hand translations,
because there are more than one description of the
'Creation' in Genesis
--
LP
In politics, moderation is the best policy

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 17:20:03 -0400, LeMod Pol <mod_pol@igs.net> in
misc.legal, wrote the following:

>> I tend to disagree with the term "GOD" being seen as generic. Perhaps
>> Jodeo-Christian religion is SO pervasive in western culture that we don't
>> notice that Judeo-Christian religions are the ONLY ones who refer to their
>> supreme being using the word "God".
>
>not at all true - that is only the english name for
>the divine. jews are forbidden to speak the name of
>the Divine, and so use a number of pseudonyms (G-d,
>Hashem, etc) depending on the language spoken. Xians
>might use Dieu, Gott, Deus, Dominum, etc.

Orthodox Jews of my acquaintance tend to _write_ the name of the Deity
as G-d, as it is holy in their view. Other viewpoints within the
Orthodox tradition disagree. However, as far as I understand Orthodox
tradition, they may _say_ the name of the Supreme Being as "God" in
speech, or written in terms such as "Adonai," "Hashem", etc.

The general rule set in Mishnah appears to be that if the Name is
written in "...Lashon Chol (a secular language) it is not the Name at
all, for it is permitted to erase the name that was written in a secular
language, such as 'Gott' in German, or 'Bog' in Polish or Russian, etc."

In everyday usage, most Jews of Conservative and Reform persuasion both
say and write the term for the Divine as "God."

For a discussion on Shemot, see

http://www.ottmall.com/mj_ht_arch/v7/index.html#VDW
"Shemot" (Issues (32) (37) (42) (58) (77) (84) (90) (93) (99) ).

--
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg, J.D.

"Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is
left free to combat it."

(Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, 1801)

DISCLAIMER:

Not a practicing attorney, and no attorney-client relationship
is created. This response is for discussion purposes only. It
isn't meant to be legal advice. If you wish legal advice, seek
out an attorney in your own state who is familar with your
state's laws and applications thereof.

	#1
Gregory Franklyn	Re: Flash!! REFERENCE TO DIVINE TO STAY IN PLEDGE "LeMod Pol" <mod_pol@igs.net> wrote in message news:40CF615E.DE749E34@igs.net... > > Actually the pledge does not say who's g-d and thus > dodges the establishment problem, rather neatly. > I tend to disagree with the term "GOD" being seen as generic. Perhaps Jodeo-Christian religion is SO pervasive in western culture that we don't notice that Judeo-Christian religions are the ONLY ones who refer to their supreme being using the word "God". All other religions use the specific terms ie. Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Allah, etc. I believe that the use of the word "GOD" does favor one specific religion over another. The phraze "Under God" was added to the pledge after the fact as a test of patriotism. The theory was that anyone who is an atheist/communist could not pledge allegience to the US because of their religious beliefs, or lack thereof and could, therefore, be "rooted out" from the herd. To me, that respects the establishment of Judeo-Christian religions. But then again, I'm not one of the Supremes. Gregory

	#2
Dana	Re: Flash!! REFERENCE TO DIVINE TO STAY IN PLEDGE "Gregory Franklyn" <gregoryf@zcloud.net> wrote in message news:10ej0je8n5qn066@corp.supernews.com... > > "LeMod Pol" <mod_pol@igs.net> wrote in message > news:40CF615E.DE749E34@igs.net... > > > > Actually the pledge does not say who's g-d and thus > > dodges the establishment problem, rather neatly. > > > > I tend to disagree with the term "GOD" being seen as generic. That is your problem.

	#3
LeMod Pol	Re: Flash!! REFERENCE TO DIVINE TO STAY IN PLEDGE Gregory Franklyn wrote: > > "LeMod Pol" <mod_pol@igs.net> wrote in message > news:40CF615E.DE749E34@igs.net... > > > > Actually the pledge does not say who's g-d and thus > > dodges the establishment problem, rather neatly. > > > > I tend to disagree with the term "GOD" being seen as generic. Perhaps > Jodeo-Christian religion is SO pervasive in western culture that we don't > notice that Judeo-Christian religions are the ONLY ones who refer to their > supreme being using the word "God". not at all true - that is only the english name for the divine. jews are forbidden to speak the name of the Divine, and so use a number of pseudonyms (G-d, Hashem, etc) depending on the language spoken. Xians might use Dieu, Gott, Deus, Dominum, etc. So you have jumped into a dead thread without really knowing whereof you speak. A propos your previous post. Those absolutist xians either have not read their bibles through or they are using badly edited 3rd or 4th hand translations, because there are more than one description of the 'Creation' in Genesis -- LP In politics, moderation is the best policy

	#4
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg	Re: Flash!! REFERENCE TO DIVINE TO STAY IN PLEDGE On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 17:20:03 -0400, LeMod Pol <mod_pol@igs.net> in misc.legal, wrote the following: >> I tend to disagree with the term "GOD" being seen as generic. Perhaps >> Jodeo-Christian religion is SO pervasive in western culture that we don't >> notice that Judeo-Christian religions are the ONLY ones who refer to their >> supreme being using the word "God". > >not at all true - that is only the english name for >the divine. jews are forbidden to speak the name of >the Divine, and so use a number of pseudonyms (G-d, >Hashem, etc) depending on the language spoken. Xians >might use Dieu, Gott, Deus, Dominum, etc. Orthodox Jews of my acquaintance tend to _write_ the name of the Deity as G-d, as it is holy in their view. Other viewpoints within the Orthodox tradition disagree. However, as far as I understand Orthodox tradition, they may _say_ the name of the Supreme Being as "God" in speech, or written in terms such as "Adonai," "Hashem", etc. The general rule set in Mishnah appears to be that if the Name is written in "...Lashon Chol (a secular language) it is not the Name at all, for it is permitted to erase the name that was written in a secular language, such as 'Gott' in German, or 'Bog' in Polish or Russian, etc." In everyday usage, most Jews of Conservative and Reform persuasion both say and write the term for the Divine as "God." For a discussion on Shemot, see http://www.ottmall.com/mj_ht_arch/v7/index.html#VDW "Shemot" (Issues (32) (37) (42) (58) (77) (84) (90) (93) (99) ). -- Katherine Griffis-Greenberg, J.D. "Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it." (Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, 1801) DISCLAIMER: Not a practicing attorney, and no attorney-client relationship is created. This response is for discussion purposes only. It isn't meant to be legal advice. If you wish legal advice, seek out an attorney in your own state who is familar with your state's laws and applications thereof.