John Turner

We've just been notified by the importers of some interesting changes to the
Lenz range of DCC decoders.

21-PIN SILVER DECODER
A new 21-pin Silver decoder is to be introduced in the immediate future -
these with have exactly the same specification as the existing HO Silver
chips, but will have a 21-pin plug which will be a direct fit into those
Bachmann locos which have been modified to accept sound decoders. RRP will
be £20.50

New STANDARD DECODER
These are now available and are a 3-function version of the (4-function)
Silver decoder. Otherwise (apart from the fact that they do not have the
ABC facility) they have all the other features of the HO Silver decoders.
These are MUCH higher spec than the cheaper decoders offered by other
manufacturers, and should be ideal for use in steam locos as well as those
diesel models which do not require a large number of function options. RRP
is £13.75.

POWER 3 ENERGY MODULE FOR MAXI GOLD
Expected late August/early September - similar to the Power 1 module, but
for use with the Maxi Gold decoder used by larger scale modellers.

Best wishes,
John,
53A Models, Hull.

kim

"John Turner" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:13ajos0f7tm6v36@news.supernews.com...
> We've just been notified by the importers of some interesting changes to
> the Lenz range of DCC decoders.
>
> 21-PIN SILVER DECODER
> A new 21-pin Silver decoder is to be introduced in the immediate future -
> these with have exactly the same specification as the existing HO Silver
> chips, but will have a 21-pin plug which will be a direct fit into those
> Bachmann locos which have been modified to accept sound decoders. RRP
> will be £20.50
>
> New STANDARD DECODER
> These are now available and are a 3-function version of the (4-function)
> Silver decoder. Otherwise (apart from the fact that they do not have the
> ABC facility) they have all the other features of the HO Silver decoders.
> These are MUCH higher spec than the cheaper decoders offered by other
> manufacturers, and should be ideal for use in steam locos as well as those
> diesel models which do not require a large number of function options.
> RRP is £13.75.
>
> POWER 3 ENERGY MODULE FOR MAXI GOLD
> Expected late August/early September - similar to the Power 1 module, but
> for use with the Maxi Gold decoder used by larger scale modellers.

How about a decoder to fit Bachmann's 8-pin socket?

(kim)

John Turner

"kim" wrote

> How about a decoder to fit Bachmann's 8-pin socket?

Lenz HO Gold, Silver & Standard decoders ALL fit the 8-pin (NEM 652) socket.

John.

kim

"John Turner" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:13ajqamf41gl64e@news.supernews.com...
>
> "kim" wrote
>
>> How about a decoder to fit Bachmann's 8-pin socket?
>
> Lenz HO Gold, Silver & Standard decoders ALL fit the 8-pin (NEM 652)
> socket.

So which is "standard", 8-pin or 9-pin?

(kim)

John Turner

"kim" wrote

> So which is "standard", 8-pin or 9-pin?

8-pin is NMRA standard - I've never heard of any manufacturer using a 9-pin
plug/socket, although Hornby in their wisdom have introduced a 4-pin decoder
in some of their cheaper 'DCC Fitted' items.

John.

kim

"John Turner" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:13ak1marc52kj57@news.supernews.com...
>
> "kim" wrote
>
>> So which is "standard", 8-pin or 9-pin?
>
> 8-pin is NMRA standard - I've never heard of any manufacturer using a
> 9-pin plug/socket, although Hornby in their wisdom have introduced a 4-pin
> decoder in some of their cheaper 'DCC Fitted' items.

Ah, apparently I was looking at the socket on a controller board. It's all
bloody confusing.

(kim)

Greg Procter

kim wrote:
>
> "John Turner" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:13ajqamf41gl64e@news.supernews.com...
> >
> > "kim" wrote
> >
> >> How about a decoder to fit Bachmann's 8-pin socket?
> >
> > Lenz HO Gold, Silver & Standard decoders ALL fit the 8-pin (NEM 652)
> > socket.
>
> So which is "standard", 8-pin or 9-pin?
>
> (kim)

Yes, as is 21 pin.

Paul Boyd

Greg Procter said the following on 28/07/2007 05:16:

> Yes, as is 21 pin.

Ah - this is one of those cases where standards are a wonderful thing
because there's so many to choose from.

(Think about it...)

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

John Turner

"simon" wrote

> The Elite John - the Elite !

As I've said before Simon, cheap or not it should work with other DCC
products. My Lenz Compact does.

> Would happily test a few makes but dont have any except Hornby ones cos
> theyre good enough for what I want to do. Also someone nearby supplies
> them.

No-one's saying don't use them, just that *I* wouldn't.

John.

Ian J.

>
> There is one thing where Daisy is bad: is programming locomotive chips.
> That said, all standard DCC base units are bad at this (Daisy just doesn't
> do most of it); typing hex codes for CV values into a DCC control panel is
> bonkers(*).

IIRC, Lenz allows use of decimal values as against hex?

> Instead, invest in either a computer interface to the DCC system you buy,
> or get a stand-alone computer interface (the Sprog, £50). If buying
> maker's interface, ensure it is supported by DecoderPro (free software to
> setup DCC chips).
>

I'm always glad I went for Lenz with the LI-USB - it has the software
necessary with it, and it allows me to directly code all aspects of a chip
simply. However, I must admit at present I don't use any chips other than
Lenz (shortly to change when I get my sound equipped Bachmann Class 20)

IMHO the thing that Lenz need to do now is move their system to the next
level. We need controllers/handsets that can deal with more than 4 digits
for identifying locos (even if the actual DCC address is 4 digit). They
could also do with innovating more with their decoder options. 1 amp Gold
Mini with 8pin NEM plug, please!

Ian J.

Nigel Cliffe

Ian J. wrote:
>> There is one thing where Daisy is bad: is programming locomotive
>> chips. That said, all standard DCC base units are bad at this (Daisy
>> just doesn't do most of it); typing hex codes for CV values into a
>> DCC control panel is bonkers(*).
>
> IIRC, Lenz allows use of decimal values as against hex?


Oh dear.

I've just gone and checked the Lenz manual for the LH100. To set up CV
values you type various cryptic numeric commands into the handset, navigate
various menus, then set various cryptic numbers. Its not significantly
different to any other maker's system, and it is an insane way to tune a
chip in a locomotives.

Or, you get a computer interface and use something like DecoderPro and
adjust a few sliders, set values in labelled fields, have the interface
label the fields appropriately for the chip in the locomotive, etc. etc. .



>> Instead, invest in either a computer interface to the DCC system you
>> buy, or get a stand-alone computer interface (the Sprog, £50). If
>> buying maker's interface, ensure it is supported by DecoderPro (free
>> software to setup DCC chips).
>>
>
> I'm always glad I went for Lenz with the LI-USB - it has the software
> necessary with it, and it allows me to directly code all aspects of a
> chip simply. However, I must admit at present I don't use any chips
> other than Lenz (shortly to change when I get my sound equipped
> Bachmann Class 20)


Doing exactly what I suggested ?

You're happy with Lenz. I have nothing against them, I think their products
are fine, and their backup for occaisional decoder failures seems excellent.


> IMHO the thing that Lenz need to do now is move their system to the
> next level. We need controllers/handsets that can deal with more than
> 4 digits for identifying locos (even if the actual DCC address is 4
> digit).




- Nigel


--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Ian J.

"Nigel Cliffe" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:f8fbjn$4m2$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> Ian J. wrote:
>>> There is one thing where Daisy is bad: is programming locomotive
>>> chips. That said, all standard DCC base units are bad at this (Daisy
>>> just doesn't do most of it); typing hex codes for CV values into a
>>> DCC control panel is bonkers(*).
>>
>> IIRC, Lenz allows use of decimal values as against hex?
>
>
> Oh dear.
>
> I've just gone and checked the Lenz manual for the LH100. To set up CV
> values you type various cryptic numeric commands into the handset,
> navigate various menus, then set various cryptic numbers. Its not
> significantly different to any other maker's system, and it is an insane
> way to tune a chip in a locomotives.
>

I think there is little space on a handset to include fully all the
definitions and buttons as might be found in a computer interface, so
they're bound to be cryptic to some degree. That's not to say they couldn't
be better though.

> Or, you get a computer interface and use something like DecoderPro and
> adjust a few sliders, set values in labelled fields, have the interface
> label the fields appropriately for the chip in the locomotive, etc. etc. .
>
>
>
>>> Instead, invest in either a computer interface to the DCC system you
>>> buy, or get a stand-alone computer interface (the Sprog, £50). If
>>> buying maker's interface, ensure it is supported by DecoderPro (free
>>> software to setup DCC chips).
>>>
>>
>> I'm always glad I went for Lenz with the LI-USB - it has the software
>> necessary with it, and it allows me to directly code all aspects of a
>> chip simply. However, I must admit at present I don't use any chips
>> other than Lenz (shortly to change when I get my sound equipped
>> Bachmann Class 20)
>
>
> Doing exactly what I suggested ?

Have done for some while, just with the supplied Lenz software rather than
DecoderPro, and wasn't tyring to say that controllers are better than
computers. It is easier programming with the PC than via controller though,
that I have to agree with, but when I haven't got the PC connected I do use
the LH100 handset. Changing points on it is murder though. Eventually I'm
intending to get layout control software, probably Railroad & Co, so that I
can use that to control the layout (or let the layout control itself :-)

Ian J.

Nigel Cliffe

Ian J. wrote:
> Have done for some while, just with the supplied Lenz software rather
> than DecoderPro, and wasn't tyring to say that controllers are better
> than computers. It is easier programming with the PC than via
> controller though, that I have to agree with, but when I haven't got
> the PC connected I do use the LH100 handset.

Which is the point I'm making.
Nobody makes a handset/base unit which is good for programming locos, so new
users should be cautioned about the issue, and recommended to buy a computer
interface of one sort or another.
Once you have jumped over the hurdle of buying a computer interface, you no
longer have to select a base unit for its ability to program locos. So,
simpler handsets start to come back into the equation.



I know one exhibition layout which now takes a cheap s/hand laptop to shows,
with a Sprog and Decoder Pro. At the end of each day they reset all their
locos back to their initial configurations. It takes a few minutes to do
the entire fleet. They do it because they've found the odd occurance of
decoders changing values at random during shows (specs say this shouldn't
happen, but reality seems different).


> Changing points on it is murder though.

Have you considered the Roco turnout control box ?
Part number 10772. It used to be about euro150, and think its Lenz
Express-Net.
Not sure if its been discontinued, Roco stuff seems to come and go, but I
guess Ebay would have some, certainly if you search Germany rather than UK.


> Eventually I'm intending to get layout control software, probably
> Railroad & Co, so that I can use that to control
> the layout (or let the layout control itself :-)

I think full automation requires a few more steps in technology to get
stable. Perhaps RailCom will be that step ?
However, automation of simpler sequences and movements seems OK at the
moment.



- Nigel


--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

simon

"John Turner" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:13alsa8kqgc6846@news.supernews.com...
>
> "simon" wrote
>
>> The Elite John - the Elite !
>
> As I've said before Simon, cheap or not it should work with other DCC
> products. My Lenz Compact does.
>
>> Would happily test a few makes but dont have any except Hornby ones cos
>> theyre good enough for what I want to do. Also someone nearby supplies
>> them.
>
> No-one's saying don't use them, just that *I* wouldn't.
>
> John.
So do we know of some 'in common use' standard products with which it it
doesnt work ?

Cheers,
Simon

Jens Wulf

Hi John, all

"John Turner" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote
>
> "kim" wrote
>
>> So which is "standard", 8-pin or 9-pin?
>
> 8-pin is NMRA standard - I've never heard of any manufacturer using a 9-pin plug/socket, although Hornby in their wisdom have
> introduced a 4-pin decoder in some of their cheaper 'DCC Fitted' items.
>

NMRA specifies 4 (large scale), 6 (small), 8 (medium) and 9 pin, and 21 pin
is kind of under discussion, mainly because there are also alternatives
proposed, like the 8/16/22 one ...

see also <http://atw.huebsch.at/DCC/NEM_Stecker22.htm> (bilingual page,
English right hand side)

as for the 9pin, Athearn equips their (US) models which are labeled
Dcc-Quick-plug with 9-pin (yes, 9 pin) sockets, matching the NMRA 9pin
specs. (but not the 9pin NEM specs ... oh dear ...)

cheers/jw
(jens)