kim

Why the hell are people buying this when the far superior Bachmann version
is available?

(kim)

MartinS

"kim" <ntscuser@aol.com> wrote:

> Why the hell are people buying this when the far superior Bachmann
> version is available?

Because it's "Hornby".

--
Martin S.

kim

"MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote in message
news:1tyni.58269$LE1.24365@newsfe13.lga...
> "kim" <ntscuser@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Why the hell are people buying this when the far superior Bachmann
>> version is available?
>
> Because it's "Hornby".

That would have been my first thought but some of the people who are buying
it are posters to MREx Mag and reasonably knowledgeable so must be aware of
its drawbacks compared to the Bachmann release. It simply beggars belief.

(kim)

Greg Procter

kim wrote:
>
> Why the hell are people buying this when the far superior Bachmann version
> is available?
>
> (kim)

Price?

Greg.P.

Mark Goodge

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:08:54 +0100, kim put finger to keyboard and
typed:

>Why the hell are people buying this when the far superior Bachmann version
>is available?

Three reasons, probably:

1. It's Hornby. Some people probably don't even know there's an
alternative.

2. It's cheaper. Some people care about price more than they care
about quality. In fact, if it's being bought for "train set" use,
then the cheaper but inferior product is probably a better choice
as it's less of an issue if it gets slightly damaged.

3. The Hornby and Bachmann versions have different liveries. If you
want a particular livery, you have to buy the brand that offers it.

Mark
--
http://www.BritishSurnames.co.uk - What does your surname say about you?
"Here we are now, entertain us"

Paul Boyd

Mark Goodge said the following on 19/07/2007 07:53:

> 3. The Hornby and Bachmann versions have different liveries. If you
> want a particular livery, you have to buy the brand that offers it.

Or re-livery it yourself?

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Gerald H

In article <bsedndwUUf6uWgPbRVnyiAA@giganews.com>, ntscuser@aol.com
says...
> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote in message
> news:1tyni.58269$LE1.24365@newsfe13.lga...
> > "kim" <ntscuser@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Why the hell are people buying this when the far superior Bachmann
> >> version is available?
> >
> > Because it's "Hornby".
>
> That would have been my first thought but some of the people who are buying
> it are posters to MREx Mag and reasonably knowledgeable so must be aware of
> its drawbacks compared to the Bachmann release. It simply beggars belief.

Perhaps the Hornby one is less detailed/more robust, it might be easier
to get spares and it might be better round tight settrack curves?

I often buy older models for these reasons, rather than the latest super
detailed versions. If you want to customise a model, it's also less
traumatising and easier to work on an older less detailed model too

Mark Goodge

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 08:12:24 +0100, Paul Boyd put finger to keyboard
and typed:

>Mark Goodge said the following on 19/07/2007 07:53:
>
>> 3. The Hornby and Bachmann versions have different liveries. If you
>> want a particular livery, you have to buy the brand that offers it.
>
>Or re-livery it yourself?

Well, yes. But most buyers won't do that.

Mark
--
Blog: http://Mark.Goodge.co.uk Photos: http://www.goodge.co.uk
"I feel dangerous 'cos I hunger for the truth"

Fred X

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:08:54 +0100, kim <ntscuser@aol.com> wrote:

> Why the hell are people buying this when the far superior Bachmann version
> is available?
>
> (kim)

The same reason they buy the Class 37, 47, Hymek, Mk 1 carriages etc.

Fred X

kim

"Gerald H" <nospam@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:MPG.2109adab722262719896e6@text.news.virgin.n et...
> In article <bsedndwUUf6uWgPbRVnyiAA@giganews.com>, ntscuser@aol.com
> says...
>> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote in message
>> news:1tyni.58269$LE1.24365@newsfe13.lga...
>> > "kim" <ntscuser@aol.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Why the hell are people buying this when the far superior Bachmann
>> >> version is available?
>> >
>> > Because it's "Hornby".
>>
>> That would have been my first thought but some of the people who are
>> buying
>> it are posters to MREx Mag and reasonably knowledgeable so must be aware
>> of
>> its drawbacks compared to the Bachmann release. It simply beggars belief.
>
> Perhaps the Hornby one is less detailed/more robust, it might be easier
> to get spares and it might be better round tight settrack curves?
>
> I often buy older models for these reasons, rather than the latest super
> detailed versions. If you want to customise a model, it's also less
> traumatising and easier to work on an older less detailed model too

Yes but then why buy a completely new one when there are plenty of old,
cheaper examples knocking around?

(kim)

kim

"Fred X" <alexserv@himki.net> wrote in message
newsp.tvp8fautj3tnem@skynet.wag54gs...
> On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:08:54 +0100, kim <ntscuser@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Why the hell are people buying this when the far superior Bachmann
>> version
>> is available?
>>
>> (kim)
>
> The same reason they buy the Class 37, 47, Hymek, Mk 1 carriages etc.

In the case of the Mk1 and Class 66, once a typical dealer's discount is
taken into consideration, it's not much cheaper than the Bachmann
alternative.

(kim)

Fred X

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:02:16 +0100, kim <ntscuser@aol.com> wrote:

> "Fred X" <alexserv@himki.net> wrote in message
> newsp.tvp8fautj3tnem@skynet.wag54gs...
>> On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:08:54 +0100, kim <ntscuser@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Why the hell are people buying this when the far superior Bachmann
>>> version
>>> is available?
>>>
>>> (kim)
>>
>> The same reason they buy the Class 37, 47, Hymek, Mk 1 carriages etc.
>
> In the case of the Mk1 and Class 66, once a typical dealer's discount is
> taken into consideration, it's not much cheaper than the Bachmann
> alternative.
>

I know. Hattons sell Hornby Hymeks for £49 and Heljan ones for £52, but
some people must be buying the Hornby version!

Fred X

John Turner

"Fred X" wrote

> I know. Hattons sell Hornby Hymeks for £49 and Heljan ones for £52, but
> some people must be buying the Hornby version!

I can't think why, even though the Heljan loco will probably draw too much
current for the average Hornby trainset controller. Some people are just
too easily satisfied.

John.

MartinS

"John Turner" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> "Fred X" wrote
>
>> I know. Hattons sell Hornby Hymeks for £49 and Heljan ones for £52,
>> but some people must be buying the Hornby version!
>
> I can't think why, even though the Heljan loco will probably draw too
> much current for the average Hornby trainset controller. Some people
> are just too easily satisfied.

There's no accounting for taste, or lack thereof.

--
Martin S.

airsmoothed@hotmail.com

On Jul 20, 11:19 pm, Dragon Heart <chris_br...@tesco.net> wrote:

>
> The Hornby / Lima models are nothing more than what Skoda used to
> do ... take second hand body designs from manufacturers like Fiat and
> build them at a greatly reduced price.
>
>
> Chris

Well, the thing is, as has already been pointed out, some of the Limby
products are not significantly cheaper than the much better quality
Bachmann alternatives. I agree if Hornby can get an old style Flying
Scotsman on the dealer's shelves for 40 odd quid then your point is
valid, but not for the likes of the Class 66.

P.S. I quite liked my wife's old Skoda Estelle, far nicer than the
Metro it replaced, apart from it's habit of lift off oversteer anyway.

estarriol

<airsmoothed@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1185008318.429949.253210@22g2000hsm.googlegro ups.com...
> On Jul 20, 11:19 pm, Dragon Heart <chris_br...@tesco.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> The Hornby / Lima models are nothing more than what Skoda used to
>> do ... take second hand body designs from manufacturers like Fiat and
>> build them at a greatly reduced price.
>>
>>
>> Chris
>
> Well, the thing is, as has already been pointed out, some of the Limby
> products are not significantly cheaper than the much better quality
> Bachmann alternatives. I agree if Hornby can get an old style Flying
> Scotsman on the dealer's shelves for 40 odd quid then your point is
> valid, but not for the likes of the Class 66.
>
> P.S. I quite liked my wife's old Skoda Estelle, far nicer than the
> Metro it replaced, apart from it's habit of lift off oversteer anyway.
>

My problem with this is simple, to get Bachman means central london or
online purchasing, but Uxbridge has 2 places you can buy Hornby off the
shelf (admittedly limited ranges, but nevertheless they are sold).

Jane Sullivan

In message <f7sjlu$8o2$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, estarriol
<estarriol@estarriol.jeansNTshirt.co.uk> writes
>
><airsmoothed@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1185008318.429949.253210@22g2000hsm.googlegr oups.com...
>> On Jul 20, 11:19 pm, Dragon Heart <chris_br...@tesco.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The Hornby / Lima models are nothing more than what Skoda used to
>>> do ... take second hand body designs from manufacturers like Fiat and
>>> build them at a greatly reduced price.
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris
>>
>> Well, the thing is, as has already been pointed out, some of the Limby
>> products are not significantly cheaper than the much better quality
>> Bachmann alternatives. I agree if Hornby can get an old style Flying
>> Scotsman on the dealer's shelves for 40 odd quid then your point is
>> valid, but not for the likes of the Class 66.
>>
>> P.S. I quite liked my wife's old Skoda Estelle, far nicer than the
>> Metro it replaced, apart from it's habit of lift off oversteer anyway.
>>
>
>My problem with this is simple, to get Bachman means central london or
>online purchasing, but Uxbridge has 2 places you can buy Hornby off the
>shelf (admittedly limited ranges, but nevertheless they are sold).
>
>

The two model railway shops nearest to me (Just Trains and Kent Garden
Railways) both sell Bachmann, as does Modelzone in the Glades in
Bromley.

--
Jane
British OO, American and Australian HO, and DCC in the garden
http://www.yddraiggoch.demon.co.uk/railway/railway.html

kim

"Andrew Robert Breen" <azb@aber.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:1185020262.366774@leri.aber.ac.uk...
> In article <1184973543.427965.296600@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups. com>,
> Dragon Heart <chris_brett@tesco.net> wrote:
>>
>>The Hornby / Lima models are nothing more than what Skoda used to
>>do ... take second hand body designs from manufacturers like Fiat and
>>build them at a greatly reduced price.
>
> OT, and a nitpick, but no Skoda was FIAT-derived. The rear-engined cars
> had a fairly distant design relationship to the Renault 4CV, but as that
> was itself derived from Tatra designs I think it's fair to regard
> rear-engined Skodas as of Czech design.

The original poster is probably thinking of Lada?

(kim)

Ian J.

>> The Hornby / Lima models are nothing more than what Skoda used to
>> do ... take second hand body designs from manufacturers like Fiat and
>> build them at a greatly reduced price.
>
> But at least Skoda's quality was good.
>
> John.
>

*Is* good, I have a Skoda and I'm very happy with it, even though it's
basically a VW underneath now rather than a Fiat.

Ian J.

Ian J.

"Ian J." <leftfield42@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46a2575d$0$1636$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>>> The Hornby / Lima models are nothing more than what Skoda used to
>>> do ... take second hand body designs from manufacturers like Fiat and
>>> build them at a greatly reduced price.
>>
>> But at least Skoda's quality was good.
>>
>> John.
>>
>
> *Is* good, I have a Skoda and I'm very happy with it, even though it's
> basically a VW underneath now rather than a Fiat.
>
> Ian J.
>

*Correction* not a Fiat! I was just thinking about that and I was pretty
sure the old Skodas weren't Fiat derived, in fact weren't derived from any
other manufacturer's designs.. However I could be wrong as they might have
used some parts during the last years pre-VW (see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0koda_Auto, which may or may not be
accurate). :$

Ian J.

kim

"Andrew Robert Breen" <azb@aber.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:1185100765.954269@leri.aber.ac.uk...
> In article <tOidnfHWqetzYzzbnZ2dnUVZ8vidnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> kim <ntscuser@aol.com> wrote:
>>"Andrew Robert Breen" <azb@aber.ac.uk> wrote in message
>>news:1185020262.366774@leri.aber.ac.uk...
>>> In article <1184973543.427965.296600@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups. com>,
>>> Dragon Heart <chris_brett@tesco.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>The Hornby / Lima models are nothing more than what Skoda used to
>>>>do ... take second hand body designs from manufacturers like Fiat and
>>>>build them at a greatly reduced price.
>>>
>>> OT, and a nitpick, but no Skoda was FIAT-derived. The rear-engined cars
>>
>>The original poster is probably thinking of Lada?
>
> Or Polski-FIAT/PZL, or Zastava/Yugo..
>
> Unfortunately, none of these were actually up to the quality of the
> originals. A lot of FIAT's clever engineering (and it was clever) got left
> out to make a simpler, more rugged product.

You mean like the sealed radiator on the FIAT which had to be cut open with
a torch and welded shut again afterwards? )

(kim)

beamendsltd

In message <46a2575d$0$1636$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
"Ian J." <leftfield42@hotmail.com> wrote:

> >> The Hornby / Lima models are nothing more than what Skoda used to
> >> do ... take second hand body designs from manufacturers like Fiat and
> >> build them at a greatly reduced price.
> >
> > But at least Skoda's quality was good.
> >
> > John.
> >
>
> *Is* good, I have a Skoda and I'm very happy with it, even though it's
> basically a VW underneath now rather than a Fiat.
>

Not basically VW - they *are* VW. Skoda is the sensible persons way
of buying a VW and saving a packet!

> Ian J.
>
>

Richard (worked for a VAG company for a while)

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
I have become... comfortably numb

Dragon Heart

On 21 Jul, 20:05, "Ian J." <leftfiel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Ian J." <leftfiel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:46a2575d$0$1636$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>
> >>> The Hornby / Lima models are nothing more than what Skoda used to
> >>> do ... take second hand body designs from manufacturers like Fiat and
> >>> build them at a greatly reduced price.
>
> >> But at least Skoda's quality was good.
>
> >> John.
>
> > *Is* good, I have a Skoda and I'm very happy with it, even though it's
> > basically a VW underneath now rather than a Fiat.
>
> > Ian J.
>
> *Correction* not a Fiat! I was just thinking about that and I was pretty
> sure the old Skodas weren't Fiat derived, in fact weren't derived from any
> other manufacturer's designs.. However I could be wrong as they might have
> used some parts during the last years pre-VW (seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0koda_Auto, which may or may not be
> accurate). :$

NO I was defiantly NOT thinking of Lada's or Polski-FIAT / PZL or
Zastava / Yugo but something like the Skoda S100L or S110L
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/f...36/110lk97.jpg

The Skoda models were, following the 2nd World War, soon falling
way behind in terms of style / engineering to it's other European
counterparts. Their solution was to 'borrow' old designs from the
1960's similar to the Fiat 1100 / 103 http://www.topolinoclubmilano.com/immagini/giovanni.jpg

My first car was a 'L' reg. S100L. Ran through two bad winters
despite a doggy distributor which could only be set within about +/-
10 degrees, could get up hills in the snow no other car at work
could, cost me £17.50 for a new exhaust and two rear tyres. Bought
it for £250 and sold it for £230 after almost 30 months of motoring.

The main point is despite it's lower engineering and 'unique' style it
got me too and from work when my pride and joy motorbike was not
safe / comfortable to ride due to the ice & snow or rain. OK some
model loco's or rolling stock are not perfect but to many of us,
including my son, as long as it works he's happy.

If everyone wanted 'perfect models' we would all be paying £400 to
£1500 or more per loco. We all buy what we can afford, I would have
loved a Ford Escort Mexico as my first car but the Scoda was a better
buy.

Chris

Andrew Robert Breen

In article <1185404256.794475.85370@k79g2000hse.googlegroups. com>,
Dragon Heart <chris_brett@tesco.net> wrote:
>On 21 Jul, 20:05, "Ian J." <leftfiel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "Ian J." <leftfiel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:46a2575d$0$1636$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>>
>> >>> The Hornby / Lima models are nothing more than what Skoda used to
>> >>> do ... take second hand body designs from manufacturers like Fiat and
>> >>> build them at a greatly reduced price.
>>
>> >> But at least Skoda's quality was good.
>>
>> >> John.
>>
>> > *Is* good, I have a Skoda and I'm very happy with it, even though it's
>> > basically a VW underneath now rather than a Fiat.
>>
>> > Ian J.
>>
>> *Correction* not a Fiat! I was just thinking about that and I was pretty
>> sure the old Skodas weren't Fiat derived, in fact weren't derived from any
>> other manufacturer's designs.. However I could be wrong as they might have
>> used some parts during the last years pre-VW
>(seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0koda_Auto, which may or may not
>be
>> accurate). :$
>
>NO I was defiantly NOT thinking of Lada's or Polski-FIAT / PZL or
>Zastava / Yugo but something like the Skoda S100L or S110L
>http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/f...36/110lk97.jpg

Which had no design relationship to any FIAT. The engine's in the opposite
end, for one thing.

There /is/ a vague design relationship between the 100/110 Skodas and the
Renault 4CV->Renault 8->Renault 10 line, and IIRC there was some
technology transfer there. OTOH, the Renault 4CV's design ancestry ran
back via Volkswagen to the Tatra T97, so there's a Czech connection there.

>The Skoda models were, following the 2nd World War, soon falling
>way behind in terms of style / engineering to it's other European
>counterparts. Their solution was to 'borrow' old designs from the
>1960's similar to the Fiat 1100 / 103
>http://www.topolinoclubmilano.com/immagini/giovanni.jpg

The Millicento was a conventional front engine/rear drive design with a
beam back axle. The Skoda was rear engine/rear drive with swing axle back
suspension. The engines were unrelated. The designs were unrelated. =There
was no FIAT input into the rear engined Skodas. Renault, perhaps; FIAT no.

>If everyone wanted 'perfect models' we would all be paying £400 to
>£1500 or more per loco. We all buy what we can afford, I would have
>loved a Ford Escort Mexico as my first car but the Scoda was a better
>buy.

OT, I know..

--
Andy Breen, not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales
"The internet, that wonderful tool for bringing us into contact
with things that make us wish we could scrub our brains out with
dental floss.." (Charlie Stross)

Dragon Heart

One thing we all appear to have overlooked on the original subject is
'Brand Loyalty' ?

Chris

John Turner

"Dragon Heart" wrote

> One thing we all appear to have overlooked on the original subject is
> 'Brand Loyalty' ?

Brand loyalty is fine, providing it is justified, but when there's a
similarly priced alternative which offers better quality then I believe in
those circumstances that brand loyalty is akin to blindness.

John.

John