John Stevenson

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 23:08:45 -0700, david.anthony.clark@ntlworld.com wrote:

>Hi There
>I will consider articles on all relvant subjects.
>There are so many subjects that could be covered.
>John Stevenson is doing an article on CNC programming,
>there have been lots of conversions but what do you do
>with the thing when you have built it?
>
>Great article on fitting a readout but how do you use it on a mill.
>Easy enough to fit but who is going to bother when they have
>never been told how fast you can produce work.
>
>Cutter grinding. Cutter grinder have been described in the past
>but again, how about using them?
>
>When I got the Editor's job, I sat down and made a list of
>article ideas.
>Some are a bit specific, only I would know what I mean
>but most are obvious what they mean.
>I have put this list and contributors' notes together.
>If you would like a copy, please email
>david.clark@magicalia.com
>


Personally I'd like to see MEW stretch it's wings which would do both the readers and the
mag some good.

I feel it's too insular in it's outlook and content.
Take the name, MEW, Model Engineers Workshop, now five of my close friends, yes I know sad
bastard that I am I only have six, all have workshops and quite well equipped with at
least one lathe and mill but none of these has ever made a model or proposes to do so.

All five are concerned with vintage vehicles, usually racing bikes or cars, now scanning
the book shelves in W. H. Schmidt GMBH and the title Model Engineers Workshop doesn't
reach out and grab you by the short and curlies saying buy me I am of interest to you.

Ironically in a conversation with David Fenner [ correction seven friends ] he admitted
that the two cover pictures with motor cycles on the cover sold better than previous
editions with things like a Quorn on the cover that only appeal to anyone over 30 with an
anorak, a pristine copy of Ian Allan's "Byways and Bridges of the Great Western Region"
and still living with his mother in Milton Keynes.

So where does our intrepid heroes of the damp spark and Dunlop security bolt go to buy a
periodical that can wet his interests in things reclaimable, restorable and relevant to
making a new part.?
Short answer is ..? [ that short enough ? ], long answer is nowhere.

The philosophy is ME makes models, MEW makes tools to make models.
Why can't MEW have machining setups in them, not necessarily for tools but setups for
parts ?
The Brown and Sharp book on milling shows many examples of what their machines can / could
do on different setups and as a picture is worth a 1,000 words we can all learn from that.

Perhaps the limiting factor is the name, Model Engineers Workshop. The Yanks [ hawk - spit
- ding ] seem to have cracked it with their publications Home Shop Machinist and Projects
in Metal, [ perhaps they don't have anoraks in the US ? ]

How about a competition for a new name that can reflect across different hobbies ?
First prize a one day tour of Myfords manufacturing facilities, runner up price a two day
tour......


..

--
Regards,

John Stevenson
Nottingham, England.

Visit the new Model Engineering adverts page at:-
http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/

Dave Baker

"John Stevenson" <john@stevenson-engineers.co.uk> wrote in message
news:h88093hjn8pm2oh7gft8mi9jpq819nbjbs@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 23:08:45 -0700, david.anthony.clark@ntlworld.com
> wrote:
> How about a competition for a new name that can reflect across different
> hobbies ?
> First prize a one day tour of Myfords manufacturing facilities, runner up
> price a two day
> tour......

LOL
--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines

Steve R.

>
> Perhaps the limiting factor is the name, Model Engineers Workshop. The
> Yanks [ hawk - spit
> - ding ] seem to have cracked it with their publications Home Shop
> Machinist and Projects
> in Metal, [ perhaps they don't have anoraks in the US ? ]
>


Anoraks? In Canada we call them parkas.


Steve R.

Michael Gray

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 18:32:43 -0700, Steve R. wrote:

>
>
>> Perhaps the limiting factor is the name, Model Engineers Workshop. The
>> Yanks [ hawk - spit
>> - ding ] seem to have cracked it with their publications Home Shop
>> Machinist and Projects
>> in Metal, [ perhaps they don't have anoraks in the US ? ]
>>
>>
>
> Anoraks? In Canada we call them parkas.


And in those parts of Canada outside of Victoria-by-the-Mediterranean,
where they are needed to keep one's family jewels warm enough for
procreation, they are called "parkies", spelt parkas.
Pedantic I know, but from a retired teacher with one son living seventy
miles shy of the Beaufort Sea what else can one expect? (He has two
children so they are effective! Long winter nights up there too.)

Mike in BC

Tony Jeffree

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 23:56:33 GMT, John Stevenson
<john@stevenson-engineers.co.uk> wrote:

>How about a competition for a new name that can reflect across different hobbies ?
>First prize a one day tour of Myfords manufacturing facilities, runner up price a two day
>tour......

John -

I would agree with you that a name change would be appropriate, along
with more widely appreciated front cover shots. (David also said that
the infamous Myford-with-daughter photo also boosted the circulation
figures for that issue.)

To get the ball rolling, two titles that keep the "MEW" abbreviation:

"Mechanical Engineers' Workshop"

"Machinist and Engineers' Workshop"

and one that doesn't:

"Home Machinists' Workshop"

Regards,
Tony

jontom_1uk@hotmail.com

On 8 Jul, 09:56, Tony Jeffree <t...@jeffree.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 23:56:33 GMT, John Stevenson
>
> <j...@stevenson-engineers.co.uk> wrote:
> >How about a competition for a new name that can reflect across different hobbies ?
> >First prize a one day tour of Myfords manufacturing facilities, runner up price a two day
> >tour......
>
> John -
>
> I would agree with you that a name change would be appropriate, along
> with more widely appreciated front cover shots. (David also said that
> the infamous Myford-with-daughter photo also boosted the circulation
> figures for that issue.)
>
> To get the ball rolling, two titles that keep the "MEW" abbreviation:
>
> "Mechanical Engineers' Workshop"
>
> "Machinist and Engineers' Workshop"
>
> and one that doesn't:
>
> "Home Machinists' Workshop"
>
> Regards,
> Tony


I like your Mechanical Engineers' Workshop but if we are going to
widen the scope how about

"Make Everything Work"

I don't see much wrong with "Home (or Hobby) Workshop" unless of
course some local authorities decide a look at the subscription list
would be a good way of finding those doing unspeakable and highly
dangerous things in their sheds.

I'll get my coat because I am out of kilter here, I don't think a name
change would accomplish much except to con a few "first time" buyers
to try it every month. It's the quality of the content that will
ensure its future and growth.

Keith

Andrew Mawson

<jontom_1uk@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1183885902.649200.139840@22g2000hsm.googlegro ups.com...
> On 8 Jul, 09:56, Tony Jeffree <t...@jeffree.co.uk> wrote:
> > On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 23:56:33 GMT, John Stevenson
> >
> > <j...@stevenson-engineers.co.uk> wrote:
> > >How about a competition for a new name that can reflect across
different hobbies ?
> > >First prize a one day tour of Myfords manufacturing facilities,
runner up price a two day
> > >tour......
> >
> > John -
> >
> > I would agree with you that a name change would be appropriate,
along
> > with more widely appreciated front cover shots. (David also said
that
> > the infamous Myford-with-daughter photo also boosted the
circulation
> > figures for that issue.)
> >
> > To get the ball rolling, two titles that keep the "MEW"
abbreviation:
> >
> > "Mechanical Engineers' Workshop"
> >
> > "Machinist and Engineers' Workshop"
> >
> > and one that doesn't:
> >
> > "Home Machinists' Workshop"
> >
> > Regards,
> > Tony
>
>
> I like your Mechanical Engineers' Workshop but if we are going to
> widen the scope how about
>
> "Make Everything Work"
>
> I don't see much wrong with "Home (or Hobby) Workshop" unless of
> course some local authorities decide a look at the subscription list
> would be a good way of finding those doing unspeakable and highly
> dangerous things in their sheds.
>
> I'll get my coat because I am out of kilter here, I don't think a
name
> change would accomplish much except to con a few "first time" buyers
> to try it every month. It's the quality of the content that will
> ensure its future and growth.
>
> Keith
>

Or to keep it in line with the clientle:

My Eyesight's Waning

AWEM

Junk

MEW "does what it says on the tin" which is more than can be said of
this newsgroup a lot of the time.

Perhaps those professionals who no longer feel that they are or want to
be 'Model Engineers' should perhaps toddle off and do their own thing
somewhere else.

Perhaps they would care to start another newsgroup, and a different
magazine - both with more appropriate names - to reflect
their current tastes. No doubt this would be most useful to them, and
indeed there is nothing wrong if this were to be the decision. I am
sure that a lot of current subscribers would take both groups.

I fear that the tone of this group, as it stands, on many occasions must
have scared off a number potential ME's, and lets face it with the dirth
of apprenticeships there are few following in the tracks. At any model
engineering exhibition a quick glance around will show that the vast
majority of those attending if they have any hair it will be grey.

We need ME and MEW together with a user-friendly newsgroup chattering
about basic home workshop issues.

Mike


--
Mike Whittome

John Stevenson

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 09:56:42 +0100, Tony Jeffree <tony@jeffree.co.uk> wrote:

>On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 23:56:33 GMT, John Stevenson
><john@stevenson-engineers.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>How about a competition for a new name that can reflect across different hobbies ?
>>First prize a one day tour of Myfords manufacturing facilities, runner up prize a two day
>>tour......
>
>John -
>
>I would agree with you that a name change would be appropriate, along
>with more widely appreciated front cover shots. (David also said that
>the infamous Myford-with-daughter photo also boosted the circulation
>figures for that issue.)
>
>To get the ball rolling, two titles that keep the "MEW" abbreviation:
>
>"Mechanical Engineers' Workshop"
>
>"Machinist and Engineers' Workshop"
>
>and one that doesn't:
>
>"Home Machinists' Workshop"
>
>Regards,
>Tony


Looks like you need to book three spare days ..............
--
Regards,

John Stevenson
Nottingham, England.

Visit the new Model Engineering adverts page at:-
http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/

John Stevenson

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 02:11:42 -0700, jontom_1uk@hotmail.com wrote:

>On 8 Jul, 09:56, Tony Jeffree <t...@jeffree.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 23:56:33 GMT, John Stevenson
>>
>> <j...@stevenson-engineers.co.uk> wrote:
>> >How about a competition for a new name that can reflect across different hobbies ?
>> >First prize a one day tour of Myfords manufacturing facilities, runner up prize a two day
>> >tour......
>>
>> John -
>>
>> I would agree with you that a name change would be appropriate, along
>> with more widely appreciated front cover shots. (David also said that
>> the infamous Myford-with-daughter photo also boosted the circulation
>> figures for that issue.)
>>
>> To get the ball rolling, two titles that keep the "MEW" abbreviation:
>>
>> "Mechanical Engineers' Workshop"
>>
>> "Machinist and Engineers' Workshop"
>>
>> and one that doesn't:
>>
>> "Home Machinists' Workshop"
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tony
>
>
>I like your Mechanical Engineers' Workshop but if we are going to
>widen the scope how about
>
>"Make Everything Work"
>
>
>I'll get my coat because I am out of kilter here, I don't think a name
>change would accomplish much except to con a few "first time" buyers
>to try it every month. It's the quality of the content that will
>ensure its future and growth.
>
>Keith

Keith,
True it's the quality but there is only so much that can be rehashed in a mag.
How many more toolpost's and bed stops do you want to see described.

Add to that many of the articles we used to make are no longer viable in both terms of
time and the fact you can buy them from ARC / Chester / Warco for peanuts, hardened and
ground to boot.

Diversifying would be a good way to get readership up and then that could then spawned off
into new articles.


--
Regards,

John Stevenson
Nottingham, England.

Visit the new Model Engineering adverts page at:-
http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/

Tony Jeffree

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 11:13:53 GMT, John Stevenson
<john@stevenson-engineers.co.uk> wrote:

>Looks like you need to book three spare days ..............

NOOOOOOO! <G>

Regards,
Tony

Tim Leech

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:07:43 +0100, Junk <Junk@windling.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>
>
>MEW "does what it says on the tin" which is more than can be said of
>this newsgroup a lot of the time.
>
>Perhaps those professionals who no longer feel that they are or want to
>be 'Model Engineers' should perhaps toddle off and do their own thing
>somewhere else.
>
>Perhaps they would care to start another newsgroup, and a different
>magazine - both with more appropriate names - to reflect
>their current tastes. No doubt this would be most useful to them, and
>indeed there is nothing wrong if this were to be the decision. I am
>sure that a lot of current subscribers would take both groups.
>
>I fear that the tone of this group, as it stands, on many occasions must
>have scared off a number potential ME's, and lets face it with the dirth
>of apprenticeships there are few following in the tracks. At any model
>engineering exhibition a quick glance around will show that the vast
>majority of those attending if they have any hair it will be grey.
>
>We need ME and MEW together with a user-friendly newsgroup chattering
>about basic home workshop issues.
>

A usenet group *is* its active members, it will change with time as
they come & go but no-one has any control over it. Also nobody pays
for it, so they've really no reason to complain if the content isn't
exactly to their liking. Sure, the active members may band together
(loosely) if something threatens to get out of hand. Luckily while
this group may not be slavishly about *model* engineering, it does
tend to follow an engineering/machining theme unlike one or two others
I can think of.

A magazine, OTOH, has paid staff and a paying readership, so there
*is* someone in control of content, and the readership can choose not
to pay/renew if the magazine doesn't come up with the goods & the
editorial staff will no doubt always have this in mind.

I'm not really a Model Engineer, except that I do have a couple of
part-built model projects in the pipeline. They haven't moved very far
along the pipeline for several years, though :-(
I'm not 'professional' either, except that most of the work in my
shop is 'Work' these days. Because I'm not a 'professional' there's
plenty I can learn from others, so I find groups like this valuable.

Cheers
Tim

Peter A Forbes

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:07:43 +0100, Junk <Junk@windling.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>MEW "does what it says on the tin" which is more than can be said of
>this newsgroup a lot of the time.

Mike:

The newsgroup is made up of what people post to it. Nothing else.

The way to change the content is to make more posts on the subject you want to
see, you cannot expect everyone else to come along and make up posts to suit a
particular group or interest.

rec.crafts.metalworking is more about guns than metalworking or crafts as John S
has already remarked, uk.rec.waterways is full of 'me too' posts, and so on.

Almost all newsgroups show signs of wear after a few years, as there are only so
many times you can explain something to a newbie etc etc.

While there are cliques among most newsgroups, this group has managed to strike
a reasonable balance between imparted knowledge, tips and hints and the
occasional bit of model engineering.

It won't change much from that unless you have a radical change in the
participating members, and you would probably throw the baby out with the
bathwater if that were to happen.

Peter


--
Peter & Rita Forbes
Email: diesel@easynet.co.uk
Web: http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel

Junk

John Stevenson quite fairly responded to my comments, and I respect
what he said. He is as entitled to present his views, with which many
obviously agree, as I believe I am even if I am in a miniority. I will
not rehearse them again.

However, he responded to my comment about professionals thus ...

>>
>>Perhaps those professionals who no longer feel that they are or want to
>>be 'Model Engineers' should perhaps toddle off and do their own thing
>>somewhere else.
>
>Now I might be a bit thick skinned but I sense that that remark was
>aimed at me.
>If so let me explain.

Which he did.

John, yes I had you in mind when I wrote, but not in isolation, and not
with the intention of being critical. There are many members of this
group who, as your goodself, make no secret of how they earn their
daily bread. I have nothing against professional engineers - indeed
I have been one myself for most of my days.

I was, perhaps cack-handedly, trying to make the point that the name of
this group - uk.rec.models.engineering - does not very often these day
reflect the content. That is not to say that there is anything wrong
with the content, only that perhaps it might go better in another guise.
My comments were prompted by the recent criticism of MEW and it's title,
and I personally see a parallel here.

John, we all know and love you for your professionalism, and your help
to others is both appreciated and unstinting. Your quick-fixes,
engineering dodges, and ways around a problem, which you happily share
could only come from one with your experience.


Mike


--
Mike Whittome

Peter Parry

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 23:56:33 GMT, John Stevenson
<john@stevenson-engineers.co.uk> wrote:

>Take the name, MEW, Model Engineers Workshop, now five of my close friends, yes I know sad
>bastard that I am I only have six, all have workshops and quite well equipped with at
>least one lathe and mill but none of these has ever made a model or proposes to do so.

Perhaps it should be "My Engineering Workshop"; a mix of mechanical
engineering, related electronics, software and DIY (with emphasis
severely upon the Y)?

All the hobby engineers I know actually do most of their work for
REMAP and, like you, none of it is "model". I'd agree that that's a
narrow view (anyone willing to broaden it see www.remap.org.uk) but I
suspect for most home engineering these days it is about making
"things" rather than models (where "things" is open to wide
interpretation). Similarly there are I suspect a diminishing number
of purely home mechanical engineers and an increasing number of home
engineers (general purpose) whose expertise stretches over metalwork,
woodwork, electronics and software.

Ultimately of course the answer lies in our hands - if you don't
write articles for a hobby magazine you don't have a strong case to
complain about their absence.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

John Stevenson

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 21:31:52 +0100, Junk <Junk@windling.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> John Stevenson quite fairly responded to my comments, and I respect
>what he said. He is as entitled to present his views, with which many
>obviously agree, as I believe I am even if I am in a miniority. I will
>not rehearse them again.
>
>However, he responded to my comment about professionals thus ...
>
>>>
>>>Perhaps those professionals who no longer feel that they are or want to
>>>be 'Model Engineers' should perhaps toddle off and do their own thing
>>>somewhere else.
>>
>>Now I might be a bit thick skinned but I sense that that remark was
>>aimed at me.
>>If so let me explain.
>
>Which he did.
>
>John, yes I had you in mind when I wrote, but not in isolation, and not
>with the intention of being critical. There are many members of this
>group who, as your goodself, make no secret of how they earn their
>daily bread. I have nothing against professional engineers - indeed
>I have been one myself for most of my days.
>
>I was, perhaps cack-handedly, trying to make the point that the name of
>this group - uk.rec.models.engineering - does not very often these day
>reflect the content. That is not to say that there is anything wrong
>with the content, only that perhaps it might go better in another guise.
>My comments were prompted by the recent criticism of MEW and it's title,
>and I personally see a parallel here.

Mike.
I can see where you are going but fell you are missing the point, either that or I'm that
obtuse I'm failing to make mine clear.

The initial spat at the mag which incidentally I never expected to have the knock on
effect it did, was to try to keep it at grass roots level and not let the flat earth
society get it all their own way.
Today's remarks at the title is another nudge to try to get it more accepted with the aim
to improve it, or at least make suggestions.

The bit about reflecting content was I feel answered very well by Peter and the previous
post from CA in the USA who praised all of us for keeping a good group, whether completely
on topic or not.

As to having professionals on board this will always happen but to be honest the people
who post here as Professionals are really big kids with cheque books <g>

Even though the average geezer has less time to spend he probably has a bit more cash now
than previously.
Think for a moment on all the lathes sold by people on Ebay, Machine Mart, Seeley and the
various stands that do agricultural shows etc.

Do they buy the mag ? Have they even heard of the mag ? Some will but the vast majority of
these haven't so what are they doing / making ?

On another forum a few weeks ago someone put one of these "look at this link " posts so I
did and it was a forum for people making kit cars where you had to build this car based on
a Mondeo for under a grand. Someone mentioned they had bought a lathe to help his build
and straight away they all came out the woodwork with what they had bought. Some new mini
lathes right up to S/H Colchester's and even a Dean Schmitt and Grace, I counted 24 lathes
from this one post, so how many more are out there but more to the point how many have
heard of the mag and can the mag rope these punters in.

David mentioned a valid point in his previous post, he mentioned CNC's and what do you do
with one once you have bought it.
He also mentioned cutter grinders and how do you actually sharpen a cutter.
Think back to some of the recent articles and once you have built said Gismo you are on
your own.
'Arold 'All described making the CES gear hobber but zilch on how to cut a gear.

I know I keep harping on about it but see if you can get a look at the Brown and Sharp
milling book, this has pages and pages of different setups. You only have to look at one
setup for machining the angled boss on a Zeppelin propeller nose and think, "That's how I
can machine my salt shaker " [ Projects have been changed to protect the innocent ]

Does the mag have to be only tools and projects ? That guy in his garden shed isn't
interested in making tools he won't use but would love to see how to machine a curved
shock absorber sprocket.

Believe it or not I'm on the side of this forum and the mag. It's the only mag I take as
I'm not into models as such and feel that ME is really just a train magazine nowdays.

As David Clark says it's all about contributed copy, no copy, no mag.
I do have some articles semi finished but the problem with most of my idea's / tools/
attachments is that they are big and not suited to the home shop so I have got to remake a
few just for an article but I won't have a use for them afterwards but that has to be done
at my expense.

>
>John, we all know and love you for your professionalism, and your help
>to others is both appreciated and unstinting. Your quick-fixes,
>engineering dodges, and ways around a problem, which you happily share
>could only come from one with your experience.

For a minute there I though you said bodge's, I though I'd been sussed

>
>
>Mike
--
Regards,

John Stevenson
Nottingham, England.

Visit the new Model Engineering adverts page at:-
http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/

bigegg

John Stevenson wrote:

> Does the mag have to be only tools and projects ? That guy in his garden shed isn't
> interested in making tools he won't use but would love to see how to machine a curved
> shock absorber sprocket.
>
> Believe it or not I'm on the side of this forum and the mag. It's the only mag I take as
> I'm not into models as such and feel that ME is really just a train magazine nowdays.

I've never subscribed. just plodding my way through about 10 years worth
I had given a few months ago.

But "Here. Here" (or AOL) - "models" does not mean just steam
locomotives.

I'm into making "stuff" - I use a lathe, and a mill, but also
a bandsaw, a bench saw, a welder, a soldering iron, an oh!sillyscope, a
furnace, a forge and a big 'ammer -
"model engineering workshop" is a little restrictive - I can hammer a
round iron bar into a rectangular cross-section accurate to within
20thous, or turn it into a push-rod, or a lathe tool, or a garden
ornament - why would I subscribe to a magazine that only tells me how to
use it to make a gear lever on a 1908 gner 1/2" scale (and spend two
pages telling me what colour it HAS to be).

To take a not-so-engineering example:
There is a magazine produced (woodworking) in the states called "shopnotes":

It's basically woodworking tools to make at home plus what
to make with them.

So there'll be (for example) a dedicated issue on making a drum
sander (a cross between a surface grinder and a planer for metally
types) accurate to a couple of thou, plus in the same issue an
article about using it to make cabinet doors, trueing up the drum,
selecting abrasive paper grits, or cutting disks (to make the drum).

There'll be be a new project every couple of months (it's published 6
times a year), and regular contributors are mailed with a schedule of
projects and an invitation to contribute relevant articles.

why not have "modern engineering workshop" with a dedicated issue on a
particular tool or technique every month?

"boilers" one month - rivetting, pressure testing, rolling, -
whatever else needs to be done (I have no idea, I'm not into trains),

cars the next month.

Perhaps an issue on sheet metal working - rolling, folding, rivetting,
wiring, wheeling.
with further issues on making an english wheel, a folder, a jenny, etc?.

or an issue on pipe bending with articles on selection of correct
alloys, annealing, a shop-made pipe bender.

home casting - building a charcoal furnace, mullering sand, preparation
of patterns.

remote control - care and feeding of relays, servo control, basic PWM
speed control, a lead in to CNC programming?

there's lot of "model engineering" that isn't steam locomotives

--
BigEgg
Hack to size. Hammer to fit. Weld to join. Grind to shape. Paint to cover.
http://www.workshop-projects.com -
Plans and free books - *Now with forum*

Cheshire Steve

John Stevenson wrote:

> On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 21:31:52 +0100, Junk <Junk@windling.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > John Stevenson quite fairly responded to my comments, and I respect
> >what he said. He is as entitled to present his views, with which many
> >obviously agree, as I believe I am even if I am in a miniority. I will
> >not rehearse them again.
> >
> >However, he responded to my comment about professionals thus ...
> >
> >>>
> >>>Perhaps those professionals who no longer feel that they are or want to
> >>>be 'Model Engineers' should perhaps toddle off and do their own thing
> >>>somewhere else.
> >>
> >>Now I might be a bit thick skinned but I sense that that remark was
> >>aimed at me.
> >>If so let me explain.
> >
> >Which he did.
> >
> >John, yes I had you in mind when I wrote, but not in isolation, and not
> >with the intention of being critical. There are many members of this
> >group who, as your goodself, make no secret of how they earn their
> >daily bread. I have nothing against professional engineers - indeed
> >I have been one myself for most of my days.
> >
> >I was, perhaps cack-handedly, trying to make the point that the name of
> >this group - uk.rec.models.engineering - does not very often these day
> >reflect the content. That is not to say that there is anything wrong
> >with the content, only that perhaps it might go better in another guise.
> >My comments were prompted by the recent criticism of MEW and it's title,
> >and I personally see a parallel here.
>
> Mike.
> I can see where you are going but fell you are missing the point, either that or I'm that
> obtuse I'm failing to make mine clear.
>
> The initial spat at the mag which incidentally I never expected to have the knock on
> effect it did, was to try to keep it at grass roots level and not let the flat earth
> society get it all their own way.
> Today's remarks at the title is another nudge to try to get it more accepted with the aim
> to improve it, or at least make suggestions.
>
> The bit about reflecting content was I feel answered very well by Peter and the previous
> post from CA in the USA who praised all of us for keeping a good group, whether completely
> on topic or not.
>
> As to having professionals on board this will always happen but to be honest the people
> who post here as Professionals are really big kids with cheque books <g>
>
> Even though the average geezer has less time to spend he probably has a bit more cash now
> than previously.
> Think for a moment on all the lathes sold by people on Ebay, Machine Mart, Seeley and the
> various stands that do agricultural shows etc.
>
> Do they buy the mag ? Have they even heard of the mag ? Some will but the vast majority of
> these haven't so what are they doing / making ?
>
> On another forum a few weeks ago someone put one of these "look at this link " posts so I
> did and it was a forum for people making kit cars where you had to build this car based on
> a Mondeo for under a grand. Someone mentioned they had bought a lathe to help his build
> and straight away they all came out the woodwork with what they had bought. Some new mini
> lathes right up to S/H Colchester's and even a Dean Schmitt and Grace, I counted 24 lathes
> from this one post, so how many more are out there but more to the point how many have
> heard of the mag and can the mag rope these punters in.
>
> David mentioned a valid point in his previous post, he mentioned CNC's and what do you do
> with one once you have bought it.
> He also mentioned cutter grinders and how do you actually sharpen a cutter.
> Think back to some of the recent articles and once you have built said Gismo you are on
> your own.
> 'Arold 'All described making the CES gear hobber but zilch on how to cut a gear.
>
> I know I keep harping on about it but see if you can get a look at the Brown and Sharp
> milling book, this has pages and pages of different setups. You only have to look at one
> setup for machining the angled boss on a Zeppelin propeller nose and think, "That's how I
> can machine my salt shaker " [ Projects have been changed to protect the innocent ]
>
> Does the mag have to be only tools and projects ? That guy in his garden shed isn't
> interested in making tools he won't use but would love to see how to machine a curved
> shock absorber sprocket.
>
> Believe it or not I'm on the side of this forum and the mag. It's the only mag I take as
> I'm not into models as such and feel that ME is really just a train magazine nowdays.
>
> As David Clark says it's all about contributed copy, no copy, no mag.
> I do have some articles semi finished but the problem with most of my idea's / tools/
> attachments is that they are big and not suited to the home shop so I have got to remake a
> few just for an article but I won't have a use for them afterwards but that has to be done
> at my expense.
>
> >
> >John, we all know and love you for your professionalism, and your help
> >to others is both appreciated and unstinting. Your quick-fixes,
> >engineering dodges, and ways around a problem, which you happily share
> >could only come from one with your experience.
>
> For a minute there I though you said bodge's, I though I'd been sussed
>
> >
> >
> >Mike
> --
> Regards,
>
> John Stevenson
> Nottingham, England.
>
> Visit the new Model Engineering adverts page at:-
> http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/

I am sure John speaks for a lot of us, except I don't buy any of the
magazines. I have hundreds of old copies of ME magazine - which covers
most of what I need as regards modelling old stuff (especially steam).

Its more the next generation that concerns me. I think we want to
encourage all home engineering, whether it be making parts to restore
an old engine, or modify a new one, or stray into the area of wind
power. The old clubs had an extra E - it was Model and Experimental
Engineering, for me that extra E covers a lot of ground - anything I
make is an experiment.

Steve

Steve R.

"Michael Gray" <mcgray@telus.net> wrote in message
newsan.2007.07.08.04.17.54.37422@telus.net...
> On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 18:32:43 -0700, Steve R. wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>> Perhaps the limiting factor is the name, Model Engineers Workshop. The
>>> Yanks [ hawk - spit
>>> - ding ] seem to have cracked it with their publications Home Shop
>>> Machinist and Projects
>>> in Metal, [ perhaps they don't have anoraks in the US ? ]
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Anoraks? In Canada we call them parkas.
>
>
> And in those parts of Canada outside of Victoria-by-the-Mediterranean,
> where they are needed to keep one's family jewels warm enough for
> procreation, they are called "parkies", spelt parkas.
> Pedantic I know, but from a retired teacher with one son living seventy
> miles shy of the Beaufort Sea what else can one expect? (He has two
> children so they are effective! Long winter nights up there too.)
>
> Mike in BC

Harrumph! I will have you know, that I have had to wear my down filled parka
twice in the last 40 years! Both times it went down to -30 F for a few days.

Steve R. (In Victoria-by-the-Mediterranean, well almost. I live in Sooke.)

Charles Ping

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 21:31:52 +0100, Junk <Junk@windling.demon.co.uk>
wrote:


>
>I was, perhaps cack-handedly, trying to make the point that the name of
>this group - uk.rec.models.engineering - does not very often these day
>reflect the content. That is not to say that there is anything wrong
>with the content, only that perhaps it might go better in another guise.
>My comments were prompted by the recent criticism of MEW and it's title,
>and I personally see a parallel here.
>

>
>Mike


It's significant that on the cover of Model Engineer's Workshop the
word "Workshop" is bigger than the others.
The recent information that either bikes, cars or even Dave Fenner's
daughter sell copies in greater volume than a picture of a dividing
head shouldn't be a shocker. Everyone in WH Smiths knows what a
motorbike looks like but maybe 2% would recognise a dividing head -
and that's in the section of the shop reservered as a "blokes ghetto"
with all the magazines on cars, bikes, trains and electronics.
There's nothing wrong with being a *bit* populist but if David Clark
puts Paris Hilton on the cover he's gone way too far.

Frankly I feel guilty that I've never submitted anything for
publication because I know that if nobody contributes there's only so
much David Clark can do on his own. However work, children, limited
time for play help to hold me back. Also there's the niggling doubt
that if I write about my oily escapades I might be found out as the
self taught bodger that I quite possibly am.....

As for this Newsgoup I'm not certain that people are put off. OK, it
has it's hairy moments (traditionally when Windows and CNC are
mentioned together) but the ratio of crap to value should hold anyone
interested in engineering of models or otherwise. OK, it's not all
steam and rails but that's because nobody talks about them. I'm sure
that they wouldn't get shouted down if they did.

Charles

Charles

Charles Ping

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:33:16 GMT, Marv <invalid@spam.net> wrote:

>
>It's turning out that the BBS operated by the "Home Shop Machinist"
>magazine folks,
>
>http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/forumdisplay.php?f=3
>
>is a far better better resource for engineering interchange than RCM.
>Several denizens of this forum (e.g., Charles Ping and John Stevenson)
>have already discovered it.
>
>While relatively free of political bickering, it's naturally organized
>around American sources of supply and tools so perhaps not of as much
>use to you folks.
>
>And, of course, there's the problem of language. Speaking as one
>immersed in the culture, I can say with authority that English as a
>written form is officially dead in the USA (and much of Canada).
>
>It's a source of great curiosity to me that ME doesn't operate a BBS
>similar to the HSM one. Seems an obvious way to keep the magazine's
>name in the public eye as well as providing a service to the model
>engineering community.
>

The previous owners of ME and MEW were both very strapped for cash and
desperately trying to keep their investors in dividends (they failed)
and apparently ignorant of online communities. That said you only have
to go to one of the ME shows in this country to see that online is a
vibrant but still relatively exclusive area of the home engineering
community (aside from the behemoth that is Ebay).

Magalica are a digital publisher whose first foray into print was
when they bought ME in the Highbury House fire sale last year.
http://www.magicalia.com/
I'd guess they suppose it's possible to drive the print market online
via their own print pages easily when they launch their sites. Perhaps
there's a "last mover advantage" in this market - possibly not?
However they don't own modelengineer.co.uk or
modelengineersworkshop.co.uk so it'll be interesting to see what their
sites are called.

Charles

Michael

"Charles Ping" <charles.ping@littlewrongs.org.uk> wrote in message
news:sbi493pa6mugc4u0ccoohn08girtjqt86j@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:33:16 GMT, Marv <invalid@spam.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>It's turning out that the BBS operated by the "Home Shop Machinist"
>>magazine folks,
>>
>>http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/forumdisplay.php?f=3
>>
>>is a far better better resource for engineering interchange than RCM.
>>Several denizens of this forum (e.g., Charles Ping and John Stevenson)
>>have already discovered it.
>>
>>While relatively free of political bickering, it's naturally organized
>>around American sources of supply and tools so perhaps not of as much
>>use to you folks.
>>
>>And, of course, there's the problem of language. Speaking as one
>>immersed in the culture, I can say with authority that English as a
>>written form is officially dead in the USA (and much of Canada).
>>
>>It's a source of great curiosity to me that ME doesn't operate a BBS
>>similar to the HSM one. Seems an obvious way to keep the magazine's
>>name in the public eye as well as providing a service to the model
>>engineering community.
>>
>
> The previous owners of ME and MEW were both very strapped for cash and
> desperately trying to keep their investors in dividends (they failed)
> and apparently ignorant of online communities. That said you only have
> to go to one of the ME shows in this country to see that online is a
> vibrant but still relatively exclusive area of the home engineering
> community (aside from the behemoth that is Ebay).
>
> Magalica are a digital publisher whose first foray into print was
> when they bought ME in the Highbury House fire sale last year.
> http://www.magicalia.com/
> I'd guess they suppose it's possible to drive the print market online
> via their own print pages easily when they launch their sites. Perhaps
> there's a "last mover advantage" in this market - possibly not?
> However they don't own modelengineer.co.uk or
> modelengineersworkshop.co.uk so it'll be interesting to see what their
> sites are called.
>
> Charles

Charles,

Have you visited http://www.modelengineersworkshop.co.uk ?

Michael

Mark Rand

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:56:36 +0100, Charles Ping
<charles.ping@littlewrongs.org.uk> wrote:


>However they don't own modelengineer.co.uk or
>modelengineersworkshop.co.uk so it'll be interesting to see what their
>sites are called.
>
>Charles


Are the two owners of those domains part of the publishers or are they
cyber-squatters?


Mark Rand
RTFM

Charles Ping

On 9 Jul, 17:04, "Michael" <n...@spam.com> wrote:
> "Charles Ping" <charles.p...@littlewrongs.org.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:sbi493pa6mugc4u0ccoohn08girtjqt86j@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:33:16 GMT, Marv <inva...@spam.net> wrote:
>
> >>It's turning out that the BBS operated by the "Home Shop Machinist"
> >>magazine folks,
>
> >>http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/forumdisplay.php?f=3
>
> >>is a far better better resource for engineering interchange than RCM.
> >>Several denizens of this forum (e.g., Charles Ping and John Stevenson)
> >>have already discovered it.
>
> >>While relatively free of political bickering, it's naturally organized
> >>around American sources of supply and tools so perhaps not of as much
> >>use to you folks.
>
> >>And, of course, there's the problem of language. Speaking as one
> >>immersed in the culture, I can say with authority that English as a
> >>written form is officially dead in the USA (and much of Canada).
>
> >>It's a source of great curiosity to me that ME doesn't operate a BBS
> >>similar to the HSM one. Seems an obvious way to keep the magazine's
> >>name in the public eye as well as providing a service to the model
> >>engineering community.
>
> > The previous owners of ME and MEW were both very strapped for cash and
> > desperately trying to keep their investors in dividends (they failed)
> > and apparently ignorant of online communities. That said you only have
> > to go to one of the ME shows in this country to see that online is a
> > vibrant but still relatively exclusive area of the home engineering
> > community (aside from the behemoth that is Ebay).
>
> > Magalica are a digital publisher whose first foray into print was
> > when they bought ME in the Highbury House fire sale last year.
> >http://www.magicalia.com/
> > I'd guess they suppose it's possible to drive the print market online
> > via their own print pages easily when they launch their sites. Perhaps
> > there's a "last mover advantage" in this market - possibly not?
> > However they don't own modelengineer.co.uk or
> > modelengineersworkshop.co.uk so it'll be interesting to see what their
> > sites are called.
>
> > Charles
>
> Charles,
>
> Have you visitedhttp://www.modelengineersworkshop.co.uk?
>
> Michael- Hide quoted text -
>

Yes.

Registered to a private individual in Carnoustie, not Magalica PLC.
I suppose possibly a mate of Dave Fenner's since it's in the same area


Charles

Steve R.

"Marv" <invalid@spam.net> wrote in message
news:iug4931dg816krqhv8ul88r1ip82vt1ql4@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 17:58:42 -0700, "Steve R." <ud233@victoria.tc.ca>
> wrote:
>
<Snip>
>
> And, of course, there's the problem of language. Speaking as one
> immersed in the culture, I can say with authority that English as a
> written form is officially dead in the USA (and much of Canada).
>
<Another snip>

I'm not so sure that good English is surviving in the UK either! Just read
the feedback comments on the BBC web site. Some of the news articles are
full of bad grammar, and rubbish sentences as well.


Steve R.




--
Due to high levels of spam, all email to this account is being auto deleted.

david.anthony.clark@ntlworld.com

Hi John and all

As promised, all drawings have reverted to black on white.
A coloured line will remain around drawings as a token.

I will be putting machine setups into Model Engineers' Workshop.
I moved a couple months back and have not got my workshop
set up yet.

As soon as I have it arranged and working, I will do all sorts of
machine setups. 35 years machining experience has taught me
a thing or two to pass on.

I can't remember an article on how to use a digital readout so this
is a future project as well.

There is no intention to change the name of the magazine.
That would be a big mistake.

I think most regular readers of Model Engineers' Workshop
(yes there are a few) know that content is mainly tooling
(and advertising) based.

I am waiting for an article on programing CNC with Mach 3 to
drop on my door step. That will be a big step forward.

www.modelengineersworkshop.com and .co.uk are both
owned by Dave Fenners mate. He purchased at the suggestion
of Dave Fenner.

Purchase is in hand although they will not be the main domain
name for the new site.

If anyone posts something about MEW to this site and wants
a reply from me, please drop me an email to say so.
I don't monitor all sites permanently.

regards David

david.anthony.clark@ntlworld.com