Does nobody want dividing heads any more?

I know that dividing heads will be passe in a cnc dominated production
environment, but I've been quite surprised to see how low some ebay
prices have been lately.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=170129556139

for instance, the chuck was probably just about worth the winning bid.
Two Elliott/Victoria 5" ch heads have gone for 50 quid or less.
I thought I'd done well when I picked up a Victoria at an auction a
few months ago for a tenner, thought I might be able to turn a
handsome profit if I don't motorise it, but at those prices I'd be a
bit disappointed :-(

Tim

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:55:28 +0100, Tim Leech
<duttondock@onetel.no.spam.com> wrote:

>I know that dividing heads will be passe in a cnc dominated production
>environment, but I've been quite surprised to see how low some ebay
>prices have been lately.
>
>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=170129556139
>
>for instance, the chuck was probably just about worth the winning bid.
>Two Elliott/Victoria 5" ch heads have gone for 50 quid or less.
>I thought I'd done well when I picked up a Victoria at an auction a
>few months ago for a tenner, thought I might be able to turn a
>handsome profit if I don't motorise it, but at those prices I'd be a
>bit disappointed :-(
>
>Tim

The small ones still seem to command a fair price but the big older
stuff is really at rock bottom.
I was asked last year to sell a big Cincinnati DH with the plates.
Problem was the guy had given £250 for it a few years earlier and
wanted to get close to that.

If I had stuck it on Ebay and it had gone for £50 I would have been
the villain so I just ummm and Ahhed until it went back.
Some things are too embarrassing.

In article <lvmv93tjvssu8pinbvbi9prt435trbvfm7@4ax.com>,
Tim Leech <duttondock@onetel.no.spam.com> wrote:
>I know that dividing heads will be passe in a cnc dominated production
>environment, but I've been quite surprised to see how low some ebay
>prices have been lately.
>
>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=170129556139
>
>for instance, the chuck was probably just about worth the winning bid.
>Two Elliott/Victoria 5" ch heads have gone for 50 quid or less.
>I thought I'd done well when I picked up a Victoria at an auction a
>few months ago for a tenner, thought I might be able to turn a
>handsome profit if I don't motorise it, but at those prices I'd be a
>bit disappointed :-(

I've been interested in buying a method of dividing for a while but
there are a wide variety of arrangements out there and the only
kind of dividing head I've ever used was a universal head like this on
a large Bridgeport sized mill and it was ideal.

However at home I don't have any kind of mill, so dividing tends to be
done by makeshift methods in the lathe which is a fairly small 4"
centre height Lorch. Unless I'm missing something most of the
standard dividing heads are too big/heavy to be used in this sort of make
shift way.

So I guess the solution is either buy a mill; or look at smaller units
like the Myford one or the Geo. Thomas design, and these seem to change
hands at high prices. If there are any other solutions I'd be interested
to know.

Alan

On 19 Jul 2007 23:25:46 +0100 (BST), Alan Bain
<alanb+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

Alan,

>So I guess the solution is either buy a mill; or look at smaller units
>like the Myford one or the Geo. Thomas design, and these seem to change
>hands at high prices. If there are any other solutions I'd be interested
>to know.

You might want to look at the feasibility of using one of the smaller
rotary tables with a dividing attachment which can work out a lot
cheaper than a dedicated dividing head.

<http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-local/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2echronos%2el td%2euk%2facatalog%2findex%2ehtml&WD=vertex&PN=Chr onos_Catalogue_Rotary_Tables___Indexers_93%2ehtml% 23aHV10#aHV10>

Jim.

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:17:14 GMT, John Stevenson
<john@stevenson-engineers.co.uk> wrote:

>On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:55:28 +0100, Tim Leech
><duttondock@onetel.no.spam.com> wrote:
>
>>I know that dividing heads will be passe in a cnc dominated production
>>environment, but I've been quite surprised to see how low some ebay
>>prices have been lately.
>>
>>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=170129556139
>>
>>for instance, the chuck was probably just about worth the winning bid.
>>Two Elliott/Victoria 5" ch heads have gone for 50 quid or less.
>>I thought I'd done well when I picked up a Victoria at an auction a
>>few months ago for a tenner, thought I might be able to turn a
>>handsome profit if I don't motorise it, but at those prices I'd be a
>>bit disappointed :-(
>>
>>Tim
>
>The small ones still seem to command a fair price but the big older
>stuff is really at rock bottom.
>I was asked last year to sell a big Cincinnati DH with the plates.
>Problem was the guy had given £250 for it a few years earlier and
>wanted to get close to that.
>
>If I had stuck it on Ebay and it had gone for £50 I would have been
>the villain so I just ummm and Ahhed until it went back.
>Some things are too embarrassing.

My sense is that 6" is too big for most home workshops.
If it's 4.5" then it has a big market. Beyond 5" they start to get big
and heavy.
For not much more than £250 you could buy a rubbish one with no
plates, buy a Divisonmaster kit and move up a step.

Charles

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 08:52:24 +0100, Charles Ping
<charles.ping@littlewrongs.org.uk> wrote:

>On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:17:14 GMT, John Stevenson
><john@stevenson-engineers.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:55:28 +0100, Tim Leech
>><duttondock@onetel.no.spam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I know that dividing heads will be passe in a cnc dominated production
>>>environment, but I've been quite surprised to see how low some ebay
>>>prices have been lately.
>>>
>>>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=170129556139
>>>
>>>for instance, the chuck was probably just about worth the winning bid.
>>>Two Elliott/Victoria 5" ch heads have gone for 50 quid or less.
>>>I thought I'd done well when I picked up a Victoria at an auction a
>>>few months ago for a tenner, thought I might be able to turn a
>>>handsome profit if I don't motorise it, but at those prices I'd be a
>>>bit disappointed :-(
>>>
>>>Tim
>>
>>The small ones still seem to command a fair price but the big older
>>stuff is really at rock bottom.
>>I was asked last year to sell a big Cincinnati DH with the plates.
>>Problem was the guy had given £250 for it a few years earlier and
>>wanted to get close to that.
>>
>>If I had stuck it on Ebay and it had gone for £50 I would have been
>>the villain so I just ummm and Ahhed until it went back.
>>Some things are too embarrassing.
>
>
>My sense is that 6" is too big for most home workshops.
>If it's 4.5" then it has a big market. Beyond 5" they start to get big
>and heavy.
>For not much more than £250 you could buy a rubbish one with no
>plates, buy a Divisonmaster kit and move up a step.
>
>Charles

I had been looking for one for the last 12months or so. Plenty at
auction, but most of them just too big for me. Most on e-bay were too
far away and so a pain to go and collect.
Have to agree though, they all went very cheaply.

Eventually I ended up buying a new Vertex BSO semi-universal from
Warco. Not too expensive considering, and at least I can claim the VAT
back through the business.

For me the advantage of this one is that it has a Myford spindle nose
and I can take a job straight off the lathe still chucked and onto the
DH. The centre height is 100mm so should cope with most things I need
to do on it.

I think the other reason is that many may want some form of
rudimentary indexing but not necessarily divdiding, and the spin
indexers are cheap enough to make this an attractive proposition for
limited usage.

Peter

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 10:57:16 +0100, Tim Leech <duttondock@onetel.no.spam.com>
wrote:
>I used to have a spare, Peter, but now I have the DH to go with it ;-)
>
>Tim

C'est la vie..... :-))

Peter
--
Peter A Forbes
Prepair Ltd, Rushden, UK
prepair@easynet.co.uk
http://www.prepair.co.uk

Tim Leech wrote:
> I know that dividing heads will be passe in a cnc dominated production
> environment, but I've been quite surprised to see how low some ebay
> prices have been lately.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=170129556139
>
> for instance, the chuck was probably just about worth the winning bid.
> Two Elliott/Victoria 5" ch heads have gone for 50 quid or less.
> I thought I'd done well when I picked up a Victoria at an auction a
> few months ago for a tenner, thought I might be able to turn a
> handsome profit if I don't motorise it, but at those prices I'd be a
> bit disappointed :-(
>
> Tim

Could use one here on occasion, but no real hurry. The first job would
be an early Centec 2 with a tooth stripped from the fast knee mechanism.
Had planned to use the old gear to index the blank in the absence of a
dividing head, but still haven't got round to working out which milling
cutter I need to use.

A small rotary table would be more usefull generally...

Chris

Alan Bain wrote:

> In article <lvmv93tjvssu8pinbvbi9prt435trbvfm7@4ax.com>,
> Tim Leech <duttondock@onetel.no.spam.com> wrote:
>
>>I know that dividing heads will be passe in a cnc dominated production
>>environment, but I've been quite surprised to see how low some ebay
>>prices have been lately.
>>
>>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=170129556139
>>
>>for instance, the chuck was probably just about worth the winning bid.
>>Two Elliott/Victoria 5" ch heads have gone for 50 quid or less.
>>I thought I'd done well when I picked up a Victoria at an auction a
>>few months ago for a tenner, thought I might be able to turn a
>>handsome profit if I don't motorise it, but at those prices I'd be a
>>bit disappointed :-(
>
>
> I've been interested in buying a method of dividing for a while but
> there are a wide variety of arrangements out there and the only
> kind of dividing head I've ever used was a universal head like this on
> a large Bridgeport sized mill and it was ideal.
>
> However at home I don't have any kind of mill, so dividing tends to be
> done by makeshift methods in the lathe which is a fairly small 4"
> centre height Lorch. Unless I'm missing something most of the
> standard dividing heads are too big/heavy to be used in this sort of make
> shift way.
>
> So I guess the solution is either buy a mill; or look at smaller units
> like the Myford one or the Geo. Thomas design, and these seem to change
> hands at high prices. If there are any other solutions I'd be interested
> to know.
>
> Alan

You could also look to the design published in Home Shop Machinist
magazine, the Model Makers Dividing Head, as provided by Philip Duclos
in the book, The Shop Wisdom of Philip Duclos.

It seems a nice size, not too small to use, but not stealing all the
headroom from a medium sized home machine.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

<Jim Guthrie> wrote in message
news:kjd0a35ehnlpju9o71mle0otrfm6hdvkgp@4ax.com...
> On 19 Jul 2007 23:25:46 +0100 (BST), Alan Bain
> <alanb+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
> Alan,
>
>>So I guess the solution is either buy a mill; or look at smaller units
>>like the Myford one or the Geo. Thomas design, and these seem to change
>>hands at high prices. If there are any other solutions I'd be interested
>>to know.
>
> You might want to look at the feasibility of using one of the smaller
> rotary tables with a dividing attachment which can work out a lot
> cheaper than a dedicated dividing head.
>
> <http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-local/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2echronos%2el td%2euk%2facatalog%2findex%2ehtml&WD=vertex&PN=Chr onos_Catalogue_Rotary_Tables___Indexers_93%2ehtml% 23aHV10#aHV10>
>
> Jim.

My adaption of a rotary table can be found on my somewhat dated web site at:

http://www.victoria.tc.ca/~ud233

Please note that email on that site is no longer functional. The filters are
set to delete all incoming email.

Steve R.

	#1
Tim Leech	Does nobody want dividing heads any more? I know that dividing heads will be passe in a cnc dominated production environment, but I've been quite surprised to see how low some ebay prices have been lately. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=170129556139 for instance, the chuck was probably just about worth the winning bid. Two Elliott/Victoria 5" ch heads have gone for 50 quid or less. I thought I'd done well when I picked up a Victoria at an auction a few months ago for a tenner, thought I might be able to turn a handsome profit if I don't motorise it, but at those prices I'd be a bit disappointed :-( Tim

	#2
John Stevenson	Re: Does nobody want dividing heads any more? On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:55:28 +0100, Tim Leech <duttondock@onetel.no.spam.com> wrote: >I know that dividing heads will be passe in a cnc dominated production >environment, but I've been quite surprised to see how low some ebay >prices have been lately. > >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=170129556139 > >for instance, the chuck was probably just about worth the winning bid. >Two Elliott/Victoria 5" ch heads have gone for 50 quid or less. >I thought I'd done well when I picked up a Victoria at an auction a >few months ago for a tenner, thought I might be able to turn a >handsome profit if I don't motorise it, but at those prices I'd be a >bit disappointed :-( > >Tim The small ones still seem to command a fair price but the big older stuff is really at rock bottom. I was asked last year to sell a big Cincinnati DH with the plates. Problem was the guy had given £250 for it a few years earlier and wanted to get close to that. If I had stuck it on Ebay and it had gone for £50 I would have been the villain so I just ummm and Ahhed until it went back. Some things are too embarrassing.

	#3
Alan Bain	Re: Does nobody want dividing heads any more? In article <lvmv93tjvssu8pinbvbi9prt435trbvfm7@4ax.com>, Tim Leech <duttondock@onetel.no.spam.com> wrote: >I know that dividing heads will be passe in a cnc dominated production >environment, but I've been quite surprised to see how low some ebay >prices have been lately. > >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=170129556139 > >for instance, the chuck was probably just about worth the winning bid. >Two Elliott/Victoria 5" ch heads have gone for 50 quid or less. >I thought I'd done well when I picked up a Victoria at an auction a >few months ago for a tenner, thought I might be able to turn a >handsome profit if I don't motorise it, but at those prices I'd be a >bit disappointed :-( I've been interested in buying a method of dividing for a while but there are a wide variety of arrangements out there and the only kind of dividing head I've ever used was a universal head like this on a large Bridgeport sized mill and it was ideal. However at home I don't have any kind of mill, so dividing tends to be done by makeshift methods in the lathe which is a fairly small 4" centre height Lorch. Unless I'm missing something most of the standard dividing heads are too big/heavy to be used in this sort of make shift way. So I guess the solution is either buy a mill; or look at smaller units like the Myford one or the Geo. Thomas design, and these seem to change hands at high prices. If there are any other solutions I'd be interested to know. Alan

	#4
Jim Guthrie	Re: Does nobody want dividing heads any more? On 19 Jul 2007 23:25:46 +0100 (BST), Alan Bain <alanb+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote: Alan, >So I guess the solution is either buy a mill; or look at smaller units >like the Myford one or the Geo. Thomas design, and these seem to change >hands at high prices. If there are any other solutions I'd be interested >to know. You might want to look at the feasibility of using one of the smaller rotary tables with a dividing attachment which can work out a lot cheaper than a dedicated dividing head. <http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-local/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2echronos%2el td%2euk%2facatalog%2findex%2ehtml&WD=vertex&PN=Chr onos_Catalogue_Rotary_Tables___Indexers_93%2ehtml% 23aHV10#aHV10> Jim.

	#5
Charles Ping	Re: Does nobody want dividing heads any more? On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:17:14 GMT, John Stevenson <john@stevenson-engineers.co.uk> wrote: >On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:55:28 +0100, Tim Leech ><duttondock@onetel.no.spam.com> wrote: > >>I know that dividing heads will be passe in a cnc dominated production >>environment, but I've been quite surprised to see how low some ebay >>prices have been lately. >> >>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=170129556139 >> >>for instance, the chuck was probably just about worth the winning bid. >>Two Elliott/Victoria 5" ch heads have gone for 50 quid or less. >>I thought I'd done well when I picked up a Victoria at an auction a >>few months ago for a tenner, thought I might be able to turn a >>handsome profit if I don't motorise it, but at those prices I'd be a >>bit disappointed :-( >> >>Tim > >The small ones still seem to command a fair price but the big older >stuff is really at rock bottom. >I was asked last year to sell a big Cincinnati DH with the plates. >Problem was the guy had given £250 for it a few years earlier and >wanted to get close to that. > >If I had stuck it on Ebay and it had gone for £50 I would have been >the villain so I just ummm and Ahhed until it went back. >Some things are too embarrassing. My sense is that 6" is too big for most home workshops. If it's 4.5" then it has a big market. Beyond 5" they start to get big and heavy. For not much more than £250 you could buy a rubbish one with no plates, buy a Divisonmaster kit and move up a step. Charles

	#6
Peter Neill	Re: Does nobody want dividing heads any more? On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 08:52:24 +0100, Charles Ping <charles.ping@littlewrongs.org.uk> wrote: >On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:17:14 GMT, John Stevenson ><john@stevenson-engineers.co.uk> wrote: > >>On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:55:28 +0100, Tim Leech >><duttondock@onetel.no.spam.com> wrote: >> >>>I know that dividing heads will be passe in a cnc dominated production >>>environment, but I've been quite surprised to see how low some ebay >>>prices have been lately. >>> >>>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=170129556139 >>> >>>for instance, the chuck was probably just about worth the winning bid. >>>Two Elliott/Victoria 5" ch heads have gone for 50 quid or less. >>>I thought I'd done well when I picked up a Victoria at an auction a >>>few months ago for a tenner, thought I might be able to turn a >>>handsome profit if I don't motorise it, but at those prices I'd be a >>>bit disappointed :-( >>> >>>Tim >> >>The small ones still seem to command a fair price but the big older >>stuff is really at rock bottom. >>I was asked last year to sell a big Cincinnati DH with the plates. >>Problem was the guy had given £250 for it a few years earlier and >>wanted to get close to that. >> >>If I had stuck it on Ebay and it had gone for £50 I would have been >>the villain so I just ummm and Ahhed until it went back. >>Some things are too embarrassing. > > >My sense is that 6" is too big for most home workshops. >If it's 4.5" then it has a big market. Beyond 5" they start to get big >and heavy. >For not much more than £250 you could buy a rubbish one with no >plates, buy a Divisonmaster kit and move up a step. > >Charles I had been looking for one for the last 12months or so. Plenty at auction, but most of them just too big for me. Most on e-bay were too far away and so a pain to go and collect. Have to agree though, they all went very cheaply. Eventually I ended up buying a new Vertex BSO semi-universal from Warco. Not too expensive considering, and at least I can claim the VAT back through the business. For me the advantage of this one is that it has a Myford spindle nose and I can take a job straight off the lathe still chucked and onto the DH. The centre height is 100mm so should cope with most things I need to do on it. I think the other reason is that many may want some form of rudimentary indexing but not necessarily divdiding, and the spin indexers are cheap enough to make this an attractive proposition for limited usage. Peter

	#7
Prepair Ltd	Re: Does nobody want dividing heads any more? On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 10:57:16 +0100, Tim Leech <duttondock@onetel.no.spam.com> wrote: >I used to have a spare, Peter, but now I have the DH to go with it ;-) > >Tim C'est la vie..... :-)) Peter -- Peter A Forbes Prepair Ltd, Rushden, UK prepair@easynet.co.uk http://www.prepair.co.uk

	#8
ChrisQuayle	Re: Does nobody want dividing heads any more? Tim Leech wrote: > I know that dividing heads will be passe in a cnc dominated production > environment, but I've been quite surprised to see how low some ebay > prices have been lately. > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=170129556139 > > for instance, the chuck was probably just about worth the winning bid. > Two Elliott/Victoria 5" ch heads have gone for 50 quid or less. > I thought I'd done well when I picked up a Victoria at an auction a > few months ago for a tenner, thought I might be able to turn a > handsome profit if I don't motorise it, but at those prices I'd be a > bit disappointed :-( > > Tim Could use one here on occasion, but no real hurry. The first job would be an early Centec 2 with a tooth stripped from the fast knee mechanism. Had planned to use the old gear to index the blank in the absence of a dividing head, but still haven't got round to working out which milling cutter I need to use. A small rotary table would be more usefull generally... Chris

	#9
Trevor Jones	Re: Does nobody want dividing heads any more? Alan Bain wrote: > In article <lvmv93tjvssu8pinbvbi9prt435trbvfm7@4ax.com>, > Tim Leech <duttondock@onetel.no.spam.com> wrote: > >>I know that dividing heads will be passe in a cnc dominated production >>environment, but I've been quite surprised to see how low some ebay >>prices have been lately. >> >>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=170129556139 >> >>for instance, the chuck was probably just about worth the winning bid. >>Two Elliott/Victoria 5" ch heads have gone for 50 quid or less. >>I thought I'd done well when I picked up a Victoria at an auction a >>few months ago for a tenner, thought I might be able to turn a >>handsome profit if I don't motorise it, but at those prices I'd be a >>bit disappointed :-( > > > I've been interested in buying a method of dividing for a while but > there are a wide variety of arrangements out there and the only > kind of dividing head I've ever used was a universal head like this on > a large Bridgeport sized mill and it was ideal. > > However at home I don't have any kind of mill, so dividing tends to be > done by makeshift methods in the lathe which is a fairly small 4" > centre height Lorch. Unless I'm missing something most of the > standard dividing heads are too big/heavy to be used in this sort of make > shift way. > > So I guess the solution is either buy a mill; or look at smaller units > like the Myford one or the Geo. Thomas design, and these seem to change > hands at high prices. If there are any other solutions I'd be interested > to know. > > Alan You could also look to the design published in Home Shop Machinist magazine, the Model Makers Dividing Head, as provided by Philip Duclos in the book, The Shop Wisdom of Philip Duclos. It seems a nice size, not too small to use, but not stealing all the headroom from a medium sized home machine. Cheers Trevor Jones

	#10
Steve R.	Re: Does nobody want dividing heads any more? <Jim Guthrie> wrote in message news:kjd0a35ehnlpju9o71mle0otrfm6hdvkgp@4ax.com... > On 19 Jul 2007 23:25:46 +0100 (BST), Alan Bain > <alanb+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote: > > Alan, > >>So I guess the solution is either buy a mill; or look at smaller units >>like the Myford one or the Geo. Thomas design, and these seem to change >>hands at high prices. If there are any other solutions I'd be interested >>to know. > > You might want to look at the feasibility of using one of the smaller > rotary tables with a dividing attachment which can work out a lot > cheaper than a dedicated dividing head. > > <http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-local/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2echronos%2el td%2euk%2facatalog%2findex%2ehtml&WD=vertex&PN=Chr onos_Catalogue_Rotary_Tables___Indexers_93%2ehtml% 23aHV10#aHV10> > > Jim. My adaption of a rotary table can be found on my somewhat dated web site at: http://www.victoria.tc.ca/~ud233 Please note that email on that site is no longer functional. The filters are set to delete all incoming email. Steve R.