paxoid

Hi,
Had a great walk along Cromer beachtoday - the sea was rough, and there was
a huge amount of foam. http://homepages.tesco.net/~paxoid/misc/foam/foam.jpg
for a picture.
So what is it? It seems long-lasting, blows around and holds sand particles
in it's structure. Apart from just simple foaming action of the waves, my
best guess is that there is some material in the water (such as emulsified
seaweed) which causes the foam to be so stable. I don't think that it is
caused by pollution, as I've seen references in historic texts.
Anyone know what it is?
Cheers!

Bob Hobden

Andy wrote
> Had a great walk along Cromer beachtoday - the sea was rough, and there
> was a huge amount of foam.
> http://homepages.tesco.net/~paxoid/misc/foam/foam.jpg for a picture.
> So what is it? It seems long-lasting, blows around and holds sand
> particles in it's structure. Apart from just simple foaming action of the
> waves, my best guess is that there is some material in the water (such as
> emulsified seaweed) which causes the foam to be so stable. I don't think
> that it is caused by pollution, as I've seen references in historic texts.
> Anyone know what it is?

I thought it was just protein being skimmed.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

BAC

"Bob Hobden" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:3tr6a3FtrvnbU1@individual.net...
>
> Andy wrote
> > Had a great walk along Cromer beachtoday - the sea was rough, and there
> > was a huge amount of foam.
> > http://homepages.tesco.net/~paxoid/misc/foam/foam.jpg for a picture.
> > So what is it? It seems long-lasting, blows around and holds sand
> > particles in it's structure. Apart from just simple foaming action of
the
> > waves, my best guess is that there is some material in the water (such
as
> > emulsified seaweed) which causes the foam to be so stable. I don't think
> > that it is caused by pollution, as I've seen references in historic
texts.
> > Anyone know what it is?
>
> I thought it was just protein being skimmed.
>

My understanding, too, is that sea foam is caused by dissolved organic
matter (remains of deceased phytoplankton) containing proteins which give
the sea water enough surface tension to form bubbles when the water is
whipped up by strong winds or wave action. If you look at foam samples
through a microscope, you will probably see phytoplankton remains. Not that
it's conclusive evidence, as phytoplankton remains aren't exactly rare, of
course, fortunately for all creatures above them in the food chain :-)

Mike Lyle

BAC wrote:
> "Bob Hobden" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:3tr6a3FtrvnbU1@individual.net...
>>
>> Andy wrote
>>> Had a great walk along Cromer beachtoday - the sea was rough, and
>>> there was a huge amount of foam.
>>> http://homepages.tesco.net/~paxoid/misc/foam/foam.jpg for a
picture.
>>> So what is it? It seems long-lasting, blows around and holds sand
>>> particles in it's structure. Apart from just simple foaming
action
>>> of the waves, my best guess is that there is some material in the
>>> water (such as emulsified seaweed) which causes the foam to be so
>>> stable. I don't think that it is caused by pollution, as I've
seen
>>> references in historic texts. Anyone know what it is?
>>
>> I thought it was just protein being skimmed.
>>
>
> My understanding, too, is that sea foam is caused by dissolved
organic
> matter (remains of deceased phytoplankton) containing proteins
which
> give the sea water enough surface tension to form bubbles when the
> water is whipped up by strong winds or wave action. If you look at
> foam samples through a microscope, you will probably see
> phytoplankton remains. Not that it's conclusive evidence, as
> phytoplankton remains aren't exactly rare, of course, fortunately
for
> all creatures above them in the food chain :-)

Makes sense. But I still wonder...certainly if you get lasting foam
on rivers, it's usually a sign of pollution. It seems to me you'd
need a heck of a lot of dead plankton to make foam that just sat
there on the sand, and I'd have thought that such a high
concentration would have made the water hard to survive in, even with
the mixing in the sea. I'd consider having some samples tested, if
only to prove me wrong -- I'd rather be wrong.

--
Mike.

Mike Coon

BAC wrote:
> My understanding, too, is that sea foam is caused by dissolved organic
> matter (remains of deceased phytoplankton) containing proteins which
> give the sea water enough surface tension to form bubbles when the
> water is whipped up by strong winds or wave action.



I expect you meant that the surface tension is reduced. That of water is
very high.



Mike.

--
If reply address = connectfee, add an r because it is free not fee.

Ian D

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 21:34:50 -0000, "Mike Lyle"
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:


>
>Makes sense. But I still wonder...certainly if you get lasting foam
>on rivers, it's usually a sign of pollution.

What sort of pollution?
I walk in the Pennines a lot, and when the becks are in spate (which
is all too often) the same foaming occurs. Where these becks tumble
into pools you get the same very dense and stable mats of foam.
It's not down to agricultural pollution as the effect is marked even
when high on the moors, where there is no farming activity to produce
any associated run-off.
As the waters flow over mainly peat covered ground they will certainly
have a very high organic content.

>It seems to me you'd
>need a heck of a lot of dead plankton to make foam that just sat
>there on the sand, and I'd have thought that such a high
>concentration would have made the water hard to survive in, even with
>the mixing in the sea.

Does it have to be plankton?
Inshore waters, especially when the sea's rough have a similar very
high organic content, mainly decaying sea weed. You can see dense
clumps of it piled up on the high tide line (I don't mean the thick
stemmed kelp, but very fine, almost grass-like weed)

Cheers
Ian D

Malcolm

In article <3tse8oFtrqbiU1@individual.net>, Mike Lyle
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> writes
>BAC wrote:
>> "Bob Hobden" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:3tr6a3FtrvnbU1@individual.net...
>>>
>>> Andy wrote
>>>> Had a great walk along Cromer beachtoday - the sea was rough, and
>>>> there was a huge amount of foam.
>>>> http://homepages.tesco.net/~paxoid/misc/foam/foam.jpg for a
>picture.
>>>> So what is it? It seems long-lasting, blows around and holds sand
>>>> particles in it's structure. Apart from just simple foaming
>action
>>>> of the waves, my best guess is that there is some material in the
>>>> water (such as emulsified seaweed) which causes the foam to be so
>>>> stable. I don't think that it is caused by pollution, as I've
>seen
>>>> references in historic texts. Anyone know what it is?
>>>
>>> I thought it was just protein being skimmed.
>>>
>>
>> My understanding, too, is that sea foam is caused by dissolved
>organic
>> matter (remains of deceased phytoplankton) containing proteins
>which
>> give the sea water enough surface tension to form bubbles when the
>> water is whipped up by strong winds or wave action. If you look at
>> foam samples through a microscope, you will probably see
>> phytoplankton remains. Not that it's conclusive evidence, as
>> phytoplankton remains aren't exactly rare, of course, fortunately
>for
>> all creatures above them in the food chain :-)
>
>Makes sense. But I still wonder...certainly if you get lasting foam
>on rivers, it's usually a sign of pollution. It seems to me you'd
>need a heck of a lot of dead plankton to make foam that just sat
>there on the sand, and I'd have thought that such a high
>concentration would have made the water hard to survive in, even with
>the mixing in the sea. I'd consider having some samples tested, if
>only to prove me wrong -- I'd rather be wrong.
>
Visitors here can be very difficult to convince that the yards-wide
swathes of foam, regularly washed up on our beaches, isn't pollution.
Even when I point out that, looking straight out from the most affected
beach, the next land to the west is Newfoundland, they are still
suspicious that a ship laden with detergent hasn't pumped it overboard
not far offshore :-)

--
Malcolm

Bob Hobden

"Ian D" wrote in reply to "Mike Lyle"
>>Makes sense. But I still wonder...certainly if you get lasting foam
>>on rivers, it's usually a sign of pollution.
>
> What sort of pollution?
> I walk in the Pennines a lot, and when the becks are in spate (which
> is all too often) the same foaming occurs. Where these becks tumble
> into pools you get the same very dense and stable mats of foam.
> It's not down to agricultural pollution as the effect is marked even
> when high on the moors, where there is no farming activity to produce
> any associated run-off.
> As the waters flow over mainly peat covered ground they will certainly
> have a very high organic content.
>
>>It seems to me you'd
>>need a heck of a lot of dead plankton to make foam that just sat
>>there on the sand, and I'd have thought that such a high
>>concentration would have made the water hard to survive in, even with
>>the mixing in the sea.
>
> Does it have to be plankton?
> Inshore waters, especially when the sea's rough have a similar very
> high organic content, mainly decaying sea weed. You can see dense
> clumps of it piled up on the high tide line (I don't mean the thick
> stemmed kelp, but very fine, almost grass-like weed)
>
Tropical marine fishkeepers use Protein Skimmers in their tanks to remove
harmful (but natural) pollution, I've always understood the beach effect to
be the same thing on a slightly larger scale. :-)
Freshwater streams also sometimes show similar effects and whilst I'm
convinced I've smelt detergent in some low waterways with pure white foam it
can't be in the higher peat fed streams. In such cases I assumed it must be
the same protein skimming effect as seen on the beach.
Lots of reading on here about Protein Skimmers and it get more interesting
the further down you read.
http://www.proteinskimmer.com/skimmerdatabase.htm


--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

Larry Stoter

paxoid <andy@paxton5.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi,
> Had a great walk along Cromer beachtoday - the sea was rough, and there was
> a huge amount of foam. http://homepages.tesco.net/~paxoid/misc/foam/foam.jpg
> for a picture.
> So what is it? It seems long-lasting, blows around and holds sand particles
> in it's structure. Apart from just simple foaming action of the waves, my
> best guess is that there is some material in the water (such as emulsified
> seaweed) which causes the foam to be so stable. I don't think that it is
> caused by pollution, as I've seen references in historic texts.
> Anyone know what it is?
> Cheers!

The maker of a certain well-known black and bitter drink used to add
seaweed extracts to generate and sustain the trademark head. I
understand that it comes from a specific Pacific species and that there
were concerns some years ago that is was becoming difficult to source,
leading to panic drinking ;-)

No doubt they have now developed a suitable entirely artificial
substitute which is helping to assist the decline in quality which some
of us have noticed over the years ....
--
Larry Stoter

Peter Alaca

paxoid wrote: haQdf.14936$wh7.12813@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net,

> Hi,
> Had a great walk along Cromer beachtoday - the sea was rough, and
> there was a huge amount of foam.
> http://homepages.tesco.net/~paxoid/misc/foam/foam.jpg for a picture.
> So what is it? It seems long-lasting, blows around and holds sand
> particles in it's structure. Apart from just simple foaming action of
> the waves, my best guess is that there is some material in the water
> (such as emulsified seaweed) which causes the foam to be so stable. I
> don't think that it is caused by pollution, as I've seen references
> in historic texts.
> Anyone know what it is?
> Cheers!

The mystery of the foam on the sea shore
http://tinyurl.com/cgckt

Phytoplankton blooms in the English Channel and in the
southern part of the North Sea :
development of an integrated physical-biogechemical model.
http://tinyurl.com/9uj8n

paxoid

"Peter Alaca" <P.Al@ca151105.nn> wrote in message
news:437a68b7$1$6623$dbd4d001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> paxoid wrote: haQdf.14936$wh7.12813@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net,
>
>> Hi,
>> Had a great walk along Cromer beachtoday - the sea was rough, and
>> there was a huge amount of foam.
>> http://homepages.tesco.net/~paxoid/misc/foam/foam.jpg for a picture.
>> So what is it? It seems long-lasting, blows around and holds sand
>> particles in it's structure. Apart from just simple foaming action of
>> the waves, my best guess is that there is some material in the water
>> (such as emulsified seaweed) which causes the foam to be so stable. I
>> don't think that it is caused by pollution, as I've seen references
>> in historic texts. Anyone know what it is?
>> Cheers!
>
> The mystery of the foam on the sea shore
> http://tinyurl.com/cgckt
>
> Phytoplankton blooms in the English Channel and in the
> southern part of the North Sea :
> development of an integrated physical-biogechemical model.
> http://tinyurl.com/9uj8n
>

Many thanks for that (and the input from other posters). Incidentally, had a
brilliant holiday near Hardelot (beach situated in the Pas-de-Calais area,
France) a couple of years ago - great beach!
I'll head up to Cromer at the weekend to take some samples & see if I can
see the phytoplankton. Unfortunately I only have an old school-style
microscope - any ideas as to taking digital piccies?
Cheers!

Malcolm Kane

In message <A61R4EoqHZeDFw0c@indaal.demon.co.uk>, Malcolm
<Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>In article <3tse8oFtrqbiU1@individual.net>, Mike Lyle
><mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> writes
>>BAC wrote:
>>> "Bob Hobden" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:3tr6a3FtrvnbU1@individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> Andy wrote
>>>>> Had a great walk along Cromer beachtoday - the sea was rough, and
>>>>> there was a huge amount of foam.
>>>>> http://homepages.tesco.net/~paxoid/misc/foam/foam.jpg for a
>>picture.
>>>>> So what is it? It seems long-lasting, blows around and holds sand
>>>>> particles in it's structure. Apart from just simple foaming
>>action
>>>>> of the waves, my best guess is that there is some material in the
>>>>> water (such as emulsified seaweed) which causes the foam to be so
>>>>> stable. I don't think that it is caused by pollution, as I've
>>seen
>>>>> references in historic texts. Anyone know what it is?
>>>>
>>>> I thought it was just protein being skimmed.
>>>>
>>>
>>> My understanding, too, is that sea foam is caused by dissolved
>>organic
>>> matter (remains of deceased phytoplankton) containing proteins
>>which
>>> give the sea water enough surface tension to form bubbles when the
>>> water is whipped up by strong winds or wave action. If you look at
>>> foam samples through a microscope, you will probably see
>>> phytoplankton remains. Not that it's conclusive evidence, as
>>> phytoplankton remains aren't exactly rare, of course, fortunately
>>for
>>> all creatures above them in the food chain :-)
>>
>>Makes sense. But I still wonder...certainly if you get lasting foam
>>on rivers, it's usually a sign of pollution. It seems to me you'd
>>need a heck of a lot of dead plankton to make foam that just sat
>>there on the sand, and I'd have thought that such a high
>>concentration would have made the water hard to survive in, even with
>>the mixing in the sea. I'd consider having some samples tested, if
>>only to prove me wrong -- I'd rather be wrong.
>>
>Visitors here can be very difficult to convince that the yards-wide
>swathes of foam, regularly washed up on our beaches, isn't pollution.
>Even when I point out that, looking straight out from the most affected
>beach, the next land to the west is Newfoundland, they are still
>suspicious that a ship laden with detergent hasn't pumped it overboard
>not far offshore :-)
>
To be honest Malcolm I am a bit like that myself. I try to tell myself
that it is just coincidence that the largest amounts of foam is just
below St Bees head which just happens to be half a mile or so from a
factory which makes detergents and has an outflow pipe.
--
Malcolm Kane