Sid

Last one.

I waited over a month for the buds to open
and when they did was greeted with what appeared
to be a colourless, uninteresting looking mini dandelion clock.

If you an identify it, I'd be grateful.

Photo placed on hastily configured photo website,
'cos I went over my monthly upload limit on Flickr.

http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Mervo44/


Sid

kauhl-meersburg

hello Sid,

your request is interesting to such an extent, that I have to ask you
where you live -

never seen a composite appearing the fruit stand without showing the
blooming state, so please don't remove it before we have determined

I started with guessing "sonchus", then went to "lactuca" and finished
with "cichorium"

Stewart's suggestion initiated me for a new try - "senecio" cannot be,
but now I am at "piecris hieracioides" (hawkweed oxtongue)

I summon :

"leaves lanceolate to oblong, toothed or untoothed, the upper small and
unstalked, clasping the stem, pappus creamy, stiffly-hairy"

whenever you have the chance of detecting the intermediate state, i. e.
flowering, could you take another shot

meanwhile cheers
kauhl
Lake Constance

Sid

I live at Adelaide, South Australia.

The wildflower seeds (Suttons) were sent from the UK
and are now a profusion of red, yellow and blue flowers.

Unfortunately the seed packet did not list the contents.

I'm keeping an eye on the plant and will photograph
any further developments.

Sid

kauhl-meersburg wrote:
> hello Sid,

>
> your request is interesting to such an extent, that I have to ask you
> where you live -
>
> never seen a composite appearing the fruit stand without showing the
> blooming state, so please don't remove it before we have determined
>
> I started with guessing "sonchus", then went to "lactuca" and finished
> with "cichorium"
>
> Stewart's suggestion initiated me for a new try - "senecio" cannot be,
> but now I am at "piecris hieracioides" (hawkweed oxtongue)
>
> I summon :
>
> "leaves lanceolate to oblong, toothed or untoothed, the upper small and
> unstalked, clasping the stem, pappus creamy, stiffly-hairy"
>
> whenever you have the chance of detecting the intermediate state, i. e.
> flowering, could you take another shot
>
> meanwhile cheers
> kauhl
> Lake Constance
>

Stewart Robert Hinsley

In message <ejqlbl$emf$00$1@news.t-online.com>, kauhl-meersburg
<OFFkauhl-tbg@t-online.de> writes
>hello Sid,
>
>your request is interesting to such an extent, that I have to ask you
>where you live -
>
>never seen a composite appearing the fruit stand without showing the
>blooming state, so please don't remove it before we have determined

I see that fairly regularly with dandelion (Taraxaxum officinale) and
groundsel (Senecio vulgaris) - or possibly that the flowering stage of a
capitulum only lasts a few hours and is missed.
>
>I started with guessing "sonchus", then went to "lactuca" and finished
>with "cichorium"

The shape of the involucre is wrong for the British species of Lactuca
and Cichorium, and what I could see of the foliage didn't ring any bells
either. I don't think the foliage matches Sonchus either. (A better
photo of the foliage would help.) We can eliminate Lapsana and Mycelis
as the seed heads have too many fruits.
>
>Stewart's suggestion initiated me for a new try - "senecio" cannot be,

What are your grounds for eliminating Senecio?

>but now I am at "piecris hieracioides" (hawkweed oxtongue)
>
>I summon :
>
>"leaves lanceolate to oblong, toothed or untoothed, the upper small and
>unstalked, clasping the stem, pappus creamy, stiffly-hairy"
>
>whenever you have the chance of detecting the intermediate state, i. e.
>flowering, could you take another shot

A closeup of a 'bud' would help as the nature of the bracts tends to be
a useful taxonomic character with composites.
>
>meanwhile cheers
>kauhl
>Lake Constance
>

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

kauhl-meersburg

hello Stewart & Sid,

so I can remain with my determination for "Picris hieracioides" (sorry,
last time I misspelled picr<e>is), just by the form of the leaves, very
oblongues and all up the branching stalks, whereas those of Senecio tend
more to width and look less toothed, together with a more impressive
main stalk

nevertheless I thank you for your encouraging reply, it brought me to
occupy myself with bracteoles, in our case those should be also
lanceolate with blackish hairs

meanwhile Sid has published 4 new pictures of our victim, which confirm
our mutual decision - I am not that specialist and further on it's too
difficult for me to make determinations in a foreign language - I only
have "The illustrated Flora of Britain ...", from Blamey / Grey-Wilson

now I have to inspect more intensely Sid's homepage, seems to be a very
instructive and serious place to learn what's happening "down under" -
why does he need to import seeds from Europe, seems to convince him to
more admire and respect his aboriginal weeds - I am a friend of ill
weeds and one of my main yearly actions and engagements consists in
protecting wild flowers and cultivate savage meadows

let's wait for the next request

cheers
Dankwart Kauhl
Lake Constance

P.S. if you ever have questions about mowing technology, you can ask me
(lol)





you are right

Stewart Robert Hinsley schrieb:
> In message <ejqlbl$emf$00$1@news.t-online.com>, kauhl-meersburg
> <OFFkauhl-tbg@t-online.de> writes
>
>> hello Sid,
>>
>> your request is interesting to such an extent, that I have to ask you
>> where you live -
>>
>> never seen a composite appearing the fruit stand without showing the
>> blooming state, so please don't remove it before we have determined
>
>
> I see that fairly regularly with dandelion (Taraxaxum officinale) and
> groundsel (Senecio vulgaris) - or possibly that the flowering stage of a
> capitulum only lasts a few hours and is missed.
>
>>
>> I started with guessing "sonchus", then went to "lactuca" and finished
>> with "cichorium"
>
>
> The shape of the involucre is wrong for the British species of Lactuca
> and Cichorium, and what I could see of the foliage didn't ring any bells
> either. I don't think the foliage matches Sonchus either. (A better
> photo of the foliage would help.) We can eliminate Lapsana and Mycelis
> as the seed heads have too many fruits.
>
>>
>> Stewart's suggestion initiated me for a new try - "senecio" cannot be,
>
>
> What are your grounds for eliminating Senecio?
>
>> but now I am at "piecris hieracioides" (hawkweed oxtongue)
>>
>> I summon :
>>
>> "leaves lanceolate to oblong, toothed or untoothed, the upper small
>> and unstalked, clasping the stem, pappus creamy, stiffly-hairy"
>>
>> whenever you have the chance of detecting the intermediate state, i.
>> e. flowering, could you take another shot
>
>
> A closeup of a 'bud' would help as the nature of the bracts tends to be
> a useful taxonomic character with composites.
>
>>
>> meanwhile cheers
>> kauhl
>> Lake Constance
>>
>

Sid

I have uploaded some more photos including a closer view
of the buds.

The yellow tips of the buds suggest a yellow flower.
However only the seeds open.

Sid.

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

> In message <ejqlbl$emf$00$1@news.t-online.com>, kauhl-meersburg
> <OFFkauhl-tbg@t-online.de> writes
>> hello Sid,
>>
>> your request is interesting to such an extent, that I have to ask you
>> where you live -
>>
>> never seen a composite appearing the fruit stand without showing the
>> blooming state, so please don't remove it before we have determined
>
> I see that fairly regularly with dandelion (Taraxaxum officinale) and
> groundsel (Senecio vulgaris) - or possibly that the flowering stage of a
> capitulum only lasts a few hours and is missed.
>>
>> I started with guessing "sonchus", then went to "lactuca" and finished
>> with "cichorium"
>
> The shape of the involucre is wrong for the British species of Lactuca
> and Cichorium, and what I could see of the foliage didn't ring any bells
> either. I don't think the foliage matches Sonchus either. (A better
> photo of the foliage would help.) We can eliminate Lapsana and Mycelis
> as the seed heads have too many fruits.
>>
>> Stewart's suggestion initiated me for a new try - "senecio" cannot be,
>
> What are your grounds for eliminating Senecio?
>
>> but now I am at "piecris hieracioides" (hawkweed oxtongue)
>>
>> I summon :
>>
>> "leaves lanceolate to oblong, toothed or untoothed, the upper small
>> and unstalked, clasping the stem, pappus creamy, stiffly-hairy"
>>
>> whenever you have the chance of detecting the intermediate state, i.
>> e. flowering, could you take another shot
>
> A closeup of a 'bud' would help as the nature of the bracts tends to be
> a useful taxonomic character with composites.
>>
>> meanwhile cheers
>> kauhl
>> Lake Constance
>>
>

Mike Coon

Sid wrote:
> I live at Adelaide, South Australia.
>
> The wildflower seeds (Suttons) were sent from the UK
> and are now a profusion of red, yellow and blue flowers.

Good grief, is that legal? I just have this impression of (understandable)
paranoia about importation of anything foreign that might run riot (like
cane toads or rabbits...)!

Mike.
--
If reply address = connectfee, add an r because it is free not fee.

kauhl-meersburg

hello Sid,
we both, Stewart and me, stay with our decision, nevertheless thank you
for adding new shots, I remarked already, confirming our guess

picris is a yellow flower, its seed does not have any stalk between corn
and pappus, you can have a look

what's further on very interesting that a seed from the northern
hemisphere is blooming now (in europe from july to october), what shows,
that the inner clock still works

what about your other seed? what's your main interest, are you a
gardener or a naturalist - I am impressed by your cooperation and would
like to know how much you are involved in wild weeds

I am beekeeper and from there my efforts to cultivate meadows

cheers kauhl
Germany

Sid schrieb:

Sid

Thanks for your response.

The problem I have (and it's plagued me all my life) is
that whenever I have seen a plant, a tree or any living
creature I've always wanted to know exactly what it is.

Some things are easy to identify. Others, like the plant
in question aren't.

Whilst working at Woomera I caught a small animal and on returning
to my base with it, inquired from my Australian colleagues as
to what it was. They appeared to be disinterested, saying
"It's a bloody mouse!". I knew it wasn't because although
being the size of a normal mouse, it had a miniature
black wet nose and a rather fat tail.

I discovered that it was a marsupial Sminthopsis Crassicaudata
or fat tailed dunnart, a creature, being crepuscular in habit which
is how I caught it. They run across sealed roads at nightfall
and halt in roadside tussocks and grasses - rendered immobile
with a torchlight beam.

http://members.iinet.com.au/~foconno...ssicaudata.htm

Australia has plenty of fauna and flora, but unfortunately
no hedgehogs, squirrels, newts (my favourite creature) or
hamsters, though guinea pigs abound in pet shops.
The authorities believe that hamsters may go wild and
multiply in size!

Newts were once discovered in Melbourne but were quickly
eradicated as it was feared they would damage the
ecosystem - notwithstanding the fact that Axolotls
can be purchased in pet shops.

Although there are plenty of European trees in Adelaide,
such as the elm, silver birch, plane tree, there are no
Aesculus Hippocastanums, though they are to be found at
Ballarat and Melbourne. My theory for this is that the
large thin surface area of the leaves can't cope with the
oppressive summer heat.

We have quite a few noxious weeds in South Australia
including the soursob or Bermuda buttercup (Oxalis pes-caprae),
Salvation Jane or Patterson's curse (Echium plantagineum)

I intend to place on my Flickr website every creature or
plant found in my garden, though I'll have to wait until
next month to add pictures as I've gone over my monthly
limit. :-)

Rather than bore the pants of other august members of this
newsgroup with my ramblings, you are most welcome to contact
via email should you have any further questions/matters
to discuss. It would be interesting chatting.

Sid









kauhl-meersburg wrote:
> hello Sid,
> we both, Stewart and me, stay with our decision, nevertheless thank you
> for adding new shots, I remarked already, confirming our guess
>
> picris is a yellow flower, its seed does not have any stalk between corn
> and pappus, you can have a look
>
> what's further on very interesting that a seed from the northern
> hemisphere is blooming now (in europe from july to october), what shows,
> that the inner clock still works
>
> what about your other seed? what's your main interest, are you a
> gardener or a naturalist - I am impressed by your cooperation and would
> like to know how much you are involved in wild weeds
>
> I am beekeeper and from there my efforts to cultivate meadows
>
> cheers kauhl
> Germany
>
> Sid schrieb:

kauhl-meersburg

hello,
your offer is welcome, but we need your flickr / yahoo ID - I found one
containing "SID", but it's empty -

hope to hear from you soon

cheers kauhl

Sid

kauhl-meersburg wrote:

> hello,

> your offer is welcome, but we need your flickr / yahoo ID - I found one
> containing "SID", but it's empty -
>
> hope to hear from you soon
>
> cheers kauhl

priapism_2006

http://www.flickr.com/photos/adelaid...ora_and_fauna/

Will upload new photos at start of next month, transferring ones
from secondary site. I'll be adding some local weeds. :-)

Secondary (temporary) site to which I have added a new photo of a purple
coloured flower in the process of opening:

http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Mervo44/

Sid

kauhl-meersburg

hello Stewart,
you are as quick as me, but what's that question about bracteoles?
cheers kauhl

kauhl-meersburg

is not working on flickr !
> priapism_2006

Stewart Robert Hinsley

In message <ek7i8o$vj8$01$1@news.t-online.com>, kauhl-meersburg
<OFFkauhl-tbg@t-online.de> writes
>hello Stewart,
>you are as quick as me, but what's that question about bracteoles?
>cheers kauhl

Some plants (much of the Malvaceae, Calystegia, etc) have an additional
floral whorl, below the calyx, known as an epicalyx or involucel. The
parts of an epicalyx are known as bracteoles (or epicalyx segments).

Without checking the books I can't be sure whether the visible green
whorl in the photograph is an epicalyx (with the calyx hidden behind the
petals) or a calyx.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

kauhl-meersburg

hello Stewart,

since half a year, a french friend and me are looking for the name of a
very strange plant, found in a suburbian garden, but being stolen before
coming to bloom
have you any suspicion what this could be, leaves in form of open grid,
i. e. veins without flesh
in what direction should I browse at Google, I have tried all, and read
all my books about plant families - the nearest bet was thistle, silybum
marianum

http://cjoint.com/?lCqfzl16b2

you know, the worst thing for a botanist is not finding the name

thanks for any endeavours

kauhl

have also a look at Flickr "kauhl_mbg", my hobby when I am not at
programming

ned

Hi Kauhl,

It's not a fern by any chance is it?
Certainly unusual.
Being potted it may be a garden plant from anywhere in the world.
Have you asked in any garden news groups?

--
ned
http://www.bugsandweeds.co.uk
latest update 27.11.2006


"kauhl-meersburg" <OFFkauhl-tbg@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:eki0el$ntt$03$1@news.t-online.com...
> hello Stewart,
>
> since half a year, a french friend and me are looking for the name
of a
> very strange plant, found in a suburbian garden, but being stolen
before
> coming to bloom
> have you any suspicion what this could be, leaves in form of open
grid,
> i. e. veins without flesh
> in what direction should I browse at Google, I have tried all, and
read
> all my books about plant families - the nearest bet was thistle,
silybum
> marianum
>
> http://cjoint.com/?lCqfzl16b2
>
> you know, the worst thing for a botanist is not finding the name
>
> thanks for any endeavours
>
> kauhl
>
> have also a look at Flickr "kauhl_mbg", my hobby when I am not at
> programming

Stewart Robert Hinsley

In message <eki0el$ntt$03$1@news.t-online.com>, kauhl-meersburg
<OFFkauhl-tbg@t-online.de> writes
>hello Stewart,
>
>since half a year, a french friend and me are looking for the name of a
>very strange plant, found in a suburbian garden, but being stolen
>before coming to bloom
>have you any suspicion what this could be, leaves in form of open grid,
>i. e. veins without flesh
>in what direction should I browse at Google, I have tried all, and read
>all my books about plant families - the nearest bet was thistle,
>silybum marianum
>
>http://cjoint.com/?lCqfzl16b2

My suspicion would be that the reduction of the leaves to the veins is a
consequence of insect predation, rather than a characteristic of the
plant.

The leaf shape is wrong for Silybum marianum - this has broader, lobed,
leaves - at least in the one photograph I have.

I don't have any real ideas - Hieracium was my first thought, but for
all I could say it could be something completely different such as a
crucifer (e.g. Arabis).

>
>you know, the worst thing for a botanist is not finding the name
>
>thanks for any endeavours
>
>kauhl
>
>have also a look at Flickr "kauhl_mbg", my hobby when I am not at
>programming

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

kauhl-meersburg

hello both, Stewart & Ned,
thank you for your kind assistance, I'll have to ask my friend to visit
the garden owner
and I'll keep you informed
cheers kauhl