X Kyle M Thompson

Just reading the university basic life support documentation for
the new 2005 resuscitation guidelines, at the end there is a
question and answer section.

The second and third questions are:

List at least four possible causes of cardiac arrest
The most common cause of cardiac arrest in adults in a heart attack...

If an adult has a heart attack ... what is the most likely cause?
The adult has most likely had a cardiac arrest.

Is it me, or do those two questions just echo each other, not
actually giving an answer?

kt.

--
You know, somebody actually complimented me on my driving today.
They left a little note on the windscreen,
it said 'Parking Fine.' So that was nice.

Nursey

X Kyle M Thompson wrote:
> Just reading the university basic life support documentation for
> the new 2005 resuscitation guidelines, at the end there is a
> question and answer section.
>
> The second and third questions are:
>
> List at least four possible causes of cardiac arrest
> The most common cause of cardiac arrest in adults in a heart attack...
>
> If an adult has a heart attack ... what is the most likely cause?
> The adult has most likely had a cardiac arrest.
>
> Is it me, or do those two questions just echo each other, not
> actually giving an answer?
>
> kt.
>
The first question asks for a minimum of 4 causes of cardiac arrest.
There are 8. Look for information on the 4 H's and 4 T's to find them
out. Heart attack is one of the 8 causes though it is called something
else (it comes under one of the T's)

The second question isn't related to cardiac arrests in general, but
asks what the main cause of a heart attack in adults is. Cardiac arrest
can be an outcome of a heart attack, not the cause.

Hope that helps. If you want more information, post here and I'll be
glad to help.

Sorry for not simply posting the answers, but I don't think that you can
learn if the information is just given to you. I find you remember
better when you have had to look for stuff first.

--
Nursey RN
ALS Provider OSOS#25 MIRTTH#6 IbW#09 4#COFF EFFA MOP#1
(nursey at ukrm dot net)
UKRM FAQ: http://www.ukrm.net/faq/

X Kyle M Thompson

Nursey wrote:
> X Kyle M Thompson wrote:
> > Just reading the university basic life support documentation for
> > the new 2005 resuscitation guidelines, at the end there is a
> > question and answer section.
> >
> > The second and third questions are:
> >
> > List at least four possible causes of cardiac arrest
> > The most common cause of cardiac arrest in adults in a heart attack...
> >
> > If an adult has a heart attack ... what is the most likely cause?
> > The adult has most likely had a cardiac arrest.
> >
> > Is it me, or do those two questions just echo each other, not
> > actually giving an answer?
>
> The second question isn't related to cardiac arrests in general, but
> asks what the main cause of a heart attack in adults is. Cardiac arrest
> can be an outcome of a heart attack, not the cause.

That's my point - I posted the official uni questions and answers -
heart attacks cause cardiac arrest cause heart attacts - at least
according to my uni documentation. I understand what they are getting
at, but the wording is confusing at best, misleading at worst.

kt.

Nursey

X Kyle M Thompson wrote:
> Nursey wrote:
>> X Kyle M Thompson wrote:
>>> Just reading the university basic life support documentation for
>>> the new 2005 resuscitation guidelines, at the end there is a
>>> question and answer section.
>>>
>>> The second and third questions are:
>>>
>>> List at least four possible causes of cardiac arrest
>>> The most common cause of cardiac arrest in adults in a heart attack...
>>>
>>> If an adult has a heart attack ... what is the most likely cause?
>>> The adult has most likely had a cardiac arrest.
>>>
>>> Is it me, or do those two questions just echo each other, not
>>> actually giving an answer?
>> The second question isn't related to cardiac arrests in general, but
>> asks what the main cause of a heart attack in adults is. Cardiac arrest
>> can be an outcome of a heart attack, not the cause.
>
> That's my point - I posted the official uni questions and answers -
> heart attacks cause cardiac arrest cause heart attacts - at least
> according to my uni documentation. I understand what they are getting
> at, but the wording is confusing at best, misleading at worst.
>
Very confusing.

Which Uni out of interest?

--
Nursey RN
ALS Provider OSOS#25 MIRTTH#6 IbW#09 4#COFF EFFA MOP#1
(nursey at ukrm dot net)
UKRM FAQ: http://www.ukrm.net/faq/

Phil Anthropist

"X Kyle M Thompson" wrote:
> Just reading the university basic life support documentation for
> the new 2005 resuscitation guidelines, at the end there is a
> question and answer section.
>
> The second and third questions are:
>
> List at least four possible causes of cardiac arrest
> The most common cause of cardiac arrest in adults in a heart attack...
>
> If an adult has a heart attack ... what is the most likely cause?
> The adult has most likely had a cardiac arrest.
>
> Is it me, or do those two questions just echo each other, not
> actually giving an answer?
>
> kt.
>
> --
> You know, somebody actually complimented me on my driving today.
> They left a little note on the windscreen,
> it said 'Parking Fine.' So that was nice.

This looks like tautology to me because there is a fault in expression, due
either to an unnecessary duplication of an idea using different words, or
the writer does not understand the precise meaning of a word or phrase,
e.g., does not understand precisely what is meant by a heart attack and/or
cardiac arrest. A heart attack is damage to the heart muscle caused by
insufficient blood supply, a myocardial infarction (MI). A heart attack (MI)
may or may not cause cardiac arrest. The most likely cause of a heart attack
in adults is a myocardial infarction, not a cardiac arrest which is a
consequence of a heart attack, not a cause. Whoever wrote the question
doesn't seem to understand this.

Phil
----

Brian Walkden

I don't know if the author was trying to confuse or to simplify. Either way
they have not succeeded.
I am one of two partners running a Health & Safety Executive training
organisation and it doesn't make sense to me.

X Kyle M Thompson

On 2006-10-16 08:53:51 +0100, "Brian Walkden"<brian@myosotis.org.uk> said:

> I don't know if the author was trying to confuse or to simplify. Either
> way they have not succeeded.
> I am one of two partners running a Health & Safety Executive training
> organisation and it doesn't make sense to me.

What doesn't? Are you replying to my original post of yonks ago, or one
of the replies?

kt.
--
So I was getting into my car,
and this bloke says to me "Can you give me a lift?"
I said "Sure, you look great, the world's your oyster, go for it.'

Andrew Heenan

"X Kyle M Thompson" wrote ...
> The second and third questions are:
> List at least four possible causes of cardiac arrest
> The most common cause of cardiac arrest in adults is a heart attack...
> If an adult has a heart attack ... what is the most likely cause?
> The adult has most likely had a cardiac arrest.

2. There's no doubt that a heart attack (myocardial infarction) is one of
the leading causes of cardiac arrest.

3. If the person has a cardiac arrect for another reason (eg electrocution),
that can lead to a heart attack (myocardial inferction) which may or may not
lad to further cardiac arrest.

4. And you are still using Tommy Cooper quotes without attribution. Naughty!
--

Andrew
http://www.realnurse.net/

X Kyle M Thompson

On 2006-10-18 15:06:16 +0100, "Andrew*Heenan" <andrew3@heenan.net> said:

> "X Kyle M Thompson" wrote ...
>> The second and third questions are:
>> List at least four possible causes of cardiac arrest
>> The most common cause of cardiac arrest in adults is a heart attack...
>> If an adult has a heart attack ... what is the most likely cause?
>> The adult has most likely had a cardiac arrest.
>
> 2. There's no doubt that a heart attack (myocardial infarction) is one
> of the leading causes of cardiac arrest.
>
> 3. If the person has a cardiac arrect for another reason (eg
> electrocution), that can lead to a heart attack (myocardial inferction)
> which may or may not lad to further cardiac arrest.

The uni workbook isn't terribly clearrly worded, thobut.

> 4. And you are still using Tommy Cooper quotes without attribution. Naughty!

<http://groups.google.com/group/uk.sci.med.nursing/browse_frm/thread/b23b03b4723924a1/d5b12aef7cd91f22?lnk=gst&q=tim+vine&rnum=1#d5b12ae f7cd91f22>

or

<http://tinyurl.com/y6ewsf>

Of

course I'm not attributing him either!

kt.
--
So I got home, and the phone was ringing.
I picked it up, and said 'Who's speaking please?'
And a voice said 'You are.'

Andrew Heenan

"X Kyle M Thompson" wrote ...
>> 4. And you are still using Tommy Cooper quotes without attribution.
>> Naughty!
> <http://tinyurl.com/y6ewsf>
> Of course I'm not attributing him either!

Strange that 'Tim Vine' wrote these things before Cooper, when you can buy
Cooper's version from 1960s -1980's TV shows, before Vine was invented.

Shame that you, an aspiring nurse, choose to ignore the evidence and
continue to promote a thief.

Not the right attitude, Sir, not the right attitude. When you first did it,
it was an error - you had no reason to doubt the thief's claims.

Now you *know* he's a thief and a liar - so you have nowhere to hide.

Shame on you.
--

Andrew Heenan
http://www.realnurse.net/

X Kyle M Thompson

On 2006-10-18 20:35:01 +0100, "Andrew*Heenan" <andrew3@heenan.net> said:

> "X Kyle M Thompson" wrote ...
>>> 4. And you are still using Tommy Cooper quotes without attribution. Naughty!
>> <http://tinyurl.com/y6ewsf>
>> Of course I'm not attributing him either!
>
> Strange that 'Tim Vine' wrote these things before Cooper, when you can
> buy Cooper's version from 1960s -1980's TV shows, before Vine was
> invented.
>
> Shame that you, an aspiring nurse, choose to ignore the evidence and
> continue to promote a thief.

The only evidence I have is that you say otherwise, disagreement is not
really evidence.

> Not the right attitude, Sir, not the right attitude. When you first did
> it, it was an error - you had no reason to doubt the thief's claims.
>
> Now you *know* he's a thief and a liar - so you have nowhere to hide.

I don't know that, you tell me that, but other resources say otherwise.

kt.


--
So I was getting into my car,
and this bloke says to me "Can you give me a lift?"
I said "Sure, you look great, the world's your oyster, go for it.'

Andrew Heenan

"X Kyle M Thompson" <kyle.thompson@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4pvaohFkg98aU2@individual.net...
> The only evidence I have is that you say otherwise, disagreement is not
> really evidence.

Neither is the word of the thief ... but you seem happy to accept that.

You could of course investigate yourself, or simply play a cooper cd or
dvd - any one will give you at least some of the stolen quotes.

I suppose if a burglar said "I'm not a burglar, this is my stuff", you'd
give him all your valuables?

Funny old world ;o)

X Kyle M Thompson

On 2006-10-22 18:14:03 +0100, "Andrew*Heenan" <andrew3@heenan.net> said:

> "X Kyle M Thompson" <kyle.thompson@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4pvaohFkg98aU2@individual.net...
>> The only evidence I have is that you say otherwise, disagreement is not
>> really evidence.
>
> Neither is the word of the thief ... but you seem happy to accept that.

Yes, I am happy to accept a publicly stated and as far as I can tell
not publicly disproved statement, especially in an area such as
entertainment, which isn't exactly life-shatteringly important.
Cooper's much more famous and successful than Vine, surely if a
relatively unsuccessful act tried to claim the material of a more
famous, but
/similar/ act there would be more websites out there arguing your side
of the claim? In any case Googling for "Tim Vine" "Tommy Cooper" gets
in the first ten results two newspaper articles from the Independent[1]
and the Manchester Evening News [2] - the indy one even quoting some of
the same jokes as I do. Then there is the first link with an email from
Mr Vine's agent[3] stating that the jokes were Mr Vine's own work. None
of the hits I can see are agreeing with your claim that Vine stole
Cooper's work.

I have pointed out this last website to you before in the thread and
last year, if you can point out some evidence yourself other than your
say so I would be happy to look into it, otherwise lets leave this
argument now as it it getting rather old hat.

> You could of course investigate yourself, or simply play a cooper cd or
> dvd - any one will give you at least some of the stolen quotes.

I haven't got any Cooper here, and I really don't want any - he's a bit
like that stomp musical for me - okay at a variety performance, more
than a couple of minutes gets tedious.

> I suppose if a burglar said "I'm not a burglar, this is my stuff",
> you'd give him all your valuables?

If I get a telesales call I always tell this this is not my house, and
that I am a burglar.

kt.

[1] <http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/theatre/features/article5125.ece>
[2]
<http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/entertainment/comedy/s/205/205112_tim_vine__dancehouse_theatre.html>
or
<http://tinyurl.com/szjal>
[3]<http://www.thehumorarchives.com/joke/Fantastic_Tim_Vine_one-liners>
--


I went to the butchers the other day and I bet him 50 quid that he
couldn't reach the meat off the top shelf.
And he said, 'no, the steaks are too high.'

Brian Walkden

I don't know if the author was trying to confuse or to simplify. Either way
they have not succeeded.
I am one of two partners running a Health & Safety Executive training
organisation and it doesn't make sense to me.

X Kyle M Thompson

On 2006-10-16 08:53:51 +0100, "Brian Walkden"<brian@myosotis.org.uk> said:

> I don't know if the author was trying to confuse or to simplify. Either
> way they have not succeeded.
> I am one of two partners running a Health & Safety Executive training
> organisation and it doesn't make sense to me.

What doesn't? Are you replying to my original post of yonks ago, or one
of the replies?

kt.
--
So I was getting into my car,
and this bloke says to me "Can you give me a lift?"
I said "Sure, you look great, the world's your oyster, go for it.'

Andrew Heenan

"X Kyle M Thompson" wrote ...
> The second and third questions are:
> List at least four possible causes of cardiac arrest
> The most common cause of cardiac arrest in adults is a heart attack...
> If an adult has a heart attack ... what is the most likely cause?
> The adult has most likely had a cardiac arrest.

2. There's no doubt that a heart attack (myocardial infarction) is one of
the leading causes of cardiac arrest.

3. If the person has a cardiac arrect for another reason (eg electrocution),
that can lead to a heart attack (myocardial inferction) which may or may not
lad to further cardiac arrest.

4. And you are still using Tommy Cooper quotes without attribution. Naughty!
--

Andrew
http://www.realnurse.net/

X Kyle M Thompson

On 2006-10-18 15:06:16 +0100, "Andrew*Heenan" <andrew3@heenan.net> said:

> "X Kyle M Thompson" wrote ...
>> The second and third questions are:
>> List at least four possible causes of cardiac arrest
>> The most common cause of cardiac arrest in adults is a heart attack...
>> If an adult has a heart attack ... what is the most likely cause?
>> The adult has most likely had a cardiac arrest.
>
> 2. There's no doubt that a heart attack (myocardial infarction) is one
> of the leading causes of cardiac arrest.
>
> 3. If the person has a cardiac arrect for another reason (eg
> electrocution), that can lead to a heart attack (myocardial inferction)
> which may or may not lad to further cardiac arrest.

The uni workbook isn't terribly clearrly worded, thobut.

> 4. And you are still using Tommy Cooper quotes without attribution. Naughty!

<http://groups.google.com/group/uk.sci.med.nursing/browse_frm/thread/b23b03b4723924a1/d5b12aef7cd91f22?lnk=gst&q=tim+vine&rnum=1#d5b12ae f7cd91f22>

or

<http://tinyurl.com/y6ewsf>

Of

course I'm not attributing him either!

kt.
--
So I got home, and the phone was ringing.
I picked it up, and said 'Who's speaking please?'
And a voice said 'You are.'

Andrew Heenan

"X Kyle M Thompson" wrote ...
>> 4. And you are still using Tommy Cooper quotes without attribution.
>> Naughty!
> <http://tinyurl.com/y6ewsf>
> Of course I'm not attributing him either!

Strange that 'Tim Vine' wrote these things before Cooper, when you can buy
Cooper's version from 1960s -1980's TV shows, before Vine was invented.

Shame that you, an aspiring nurse, choose to ignore the evidence and
continue to promote a thief.

Not the right attitude, Sir, not the right attitude. When you first did it,
it was an error - you had no reason to doubt the thief's claims.

Now you *know* he's a thief and a liar - so you have nowhere to hide.

Shame on you.
--

Andrew Heenan
http://www.realnurse.net/

X Kyle M Thompson

On 2006-10-18 20:35:01 +0100, "Andrew*Heenan" <andrew3@heenan.net> said:

> "X Kyle M Thompson" wrote ...
>>> 4. And you are still using Tommy Cooper quotes without attribution. Naughty!
>> <http://tinyurl.com/y6ewsf>
>> Of course I'm not attributing him either!
>
> Strange that 'Tim Vine' wrote these things before Cooper, when you can
> buy Cooper's version from 1960s -1980's TV shows, before Vine was
> invented.
>
> Shame that you, an aspiring nurse, choose to ignore the evidence and
> continue to promote a thief.

The only evidence I have is that you say otherwise, disagreement is not
really evidence.

> Not the right attitude, Sir, not the right attitude. When you first did
> it, it was an error - you had no reason to doubt the thief's claims.
>
> Now you *know* he's a thief and a liar - so you have nowhere to hide.

I don't know that, you tell me that, but other resources say otherwise.

kt.


--
So I was getting into my car,
and this bloke says to me "Can you give me a lift?"
I said "Sure, you look great, the world's your oyster, go for it.'

Andrew Heenan

"X Kyle M Thompson" <kyle.thompson@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4pvaohFkg98aU2@individual.net...
> The only evidence I have is that you say otherwise, disagreement is not
> really evidence.

Neither is the word of the thief ... but you seem happy to accept that.

You could of course investigate yourself, or simply play a cooper cd or
dvd - any one will give you at least some of the stolen quotes.

I suppose if a burglar said "I'm not a burglar, this is my stuff", you'd
give him all your valuables?

Funny old world ;o)

X Kyle M Thompson

On 2006-10-22 18:14:03 +0100, "Andrew*Heenan" <andrew3@heenan.net> said:

> "X Kyle M Thompson" <kyle.thompson@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4pvaohFkg98aU2@individual.net...
>> The only evidence I have is that you say otherwise, disagreement is not
>> really evidence.
>
> Neither is the word of the thief ... but you seem happy to accept that.

Yes, I am happy to accept a publicly stated and as far as I can tell
not publicly disproved statement, especially in an area such as
entertainment, which isn't exactly life-shatteringly important.
Cooper's much more famous and successful than Vine, surely if a
relatively unsuccessful act tried to claim the material of a more
famous, but
/similar/ act there would be more websites out there arguing your side
of the claim? In any case Googling for "Tim Vine" "Tommy Cooper" gets
in the first ten results two newspaper articles from the Independent[1]
and the Manchester Evening News [2] - the indy one even quoting some of
the same jokes as I do. Then there is the first link with an email from
Mr Vine's agent[3] stating that the jokes were Mr Vine's own work. None
of the hits I can see are agreeing with your claim that Vine stole
Cooper's work.

I have pointed out this last website to you before in the thread and
last year, if you can point out some evidence yourself other than your
say so I would be happy to look into it, otherwise lets leave this
argument now as it it getting rather old hat.

> You could of course investigate yourself, or simply play a cooper cd or
> dvd - any one will give you at least some of the stolen quotes.

I haven't got any Cooper here, and I really don't want any - he's a bit
like that stomp musical for me - okay at a variety performance, more
than a couple of minutes gets tedious.

> I suppose if a burglar said "I'm not a burglar, this is my stuff",
> you'd give him all your valuables?

If I get a telesales call I always tell this this is not my house, and
that I am a burglar.

kt.

[1] <http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/theatre/features/article5125.ece>
[2]
<http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/entertainment/comedy/s/205/205112_tim_vine__dancehouse_theatre.html>
or
<http://tinyurl.com/szjal>
[3]<http://www.thehumorarchives.com/joke/Fantastic_Tim_Vine_one-liners>
--


I went to the butchers the other day and I bet him 50 quid that he
couldn't reach the meat off the top shelf.
And he said, 'no, the steaks are too high.'