:Jerry:

"Pete Knight" <pete084@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1185125800.190650.40810@w3g2000hsg.googlegrou ps.com...

<snip>
<quoting "Pete Knight">
The beach days are another event, what is the cost, EC expenses etc.
set against the gain in membership, shop sales and publicity gained,
yes I know the publicity gained is hard to quantify, but there must be
a formula to calculate the gain in monetary terms, Duncan/Andrew,
anybody?
</quote>

The only quantifiable way will be by the number of new members gained
(or indeed ex members re joining), you just can't put a monetary value
on good-will, but ATM it is this 'good-will' that is most important
[1] - IMO it's not what Andrew (or anyone else) is doing that is the
problem but how they are or want to do things, AW is failing into the
trap of thinking that anything is a job well done whilst Duncan and
'gang' are failing into the trap were everything has to be
quantifiable.

[1] without public good-will (aka understanding) the status quo will
not change, naturism will carry on being seen as anything from a bunch
of harmless eccentrics to a bunch of highly immoral (if not dangerous)
perverts.

marc

:Jerry: wrote:
> "Pete Knight" <pete084@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1185125800.190650.40810@w3g2000hsg.googlegrou ps.com...
>
> <snip>
> <quoting "Pete Knight">
> The beach days are another event, what is the cost, EC expenses etc.
> set against the gain in membership, shop sales and publicity gained,
> yes I know the publicity gained is hard to quantify, but there must be
> a formula to calculate the gain in monetary terms, Duncan/Andrew,
> anybody?
> </quote>
>
> The only quantifiable way will be by the number of new members gained
> (or indeed ex members re joining), you just can't put a monetary value
> on good-will,
You're wrong! Thousands of businesses change hand every year, and in
that changing of hands there is normally a payment made for "goodwill",
it's difficult to quantify, but you can put a monetary value on it.

but ATM it is this 'good-will' that is most important
> [1] - IMO it's not what Andrew (or anyone else) is doing that is the
> problem but how they are or want to do things, AW is failing into the
> trap of thinking that anything is a job well done whilst Duncan and
> 'gang' are failing into the trap were everything has to be
> quantifiable.
Everything has to be quantifiable, if it's not how can AW prove that his
job has been well done?

:Jerry:

"marc" <initial.surname@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:kKydnShnWPN3Pz7bnZ2dnUVZ8s6gnZ2d@bt.com...
> :Jerry: wrote:
>> "Pete Knight" <pete084@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1185125800.190650.40810@w3g2000hsg.googlegrou ps.com...
>>
>> <snip>
>> <quoting "Pete Knight">
>> The beach days are another event, what is the cost, EC expenses
>> etc.
>> set against the gain in membership, shop sales and publicity
>> gained,
>> yes I know the publicity gained is hard to quantify, but there must
>> be
>> a formula to calculate the gain in monetary terms, Duncan/Andrew,
>> anybody?
>> </quote>
>>
>> The only quantifiable way will be by the number of new members
>> gained (or indeed ex members re joining), you just can't put a
>> monetary value on good-will,
> You're wrong! Thousands of businesses change hand every year, and
> in that changing of hands there is normally a payment made for
> "goodwill", it's difficult to quantify, but you can put a monetary
> value on it.

Yes, such good will often be a list of customers etc, very
quantifiable , in the case of BN the goodwill is nothing like that
because we simply don't know who's minds have been changed or what
businesses might latter offer assistance etc. - it's only quantifiable
once you know what is being offered.

>
> but ATM it is this 'good-will' that is most important
>> [1] - IMO it's not what Andrew (or anyone else) is doing that is
>> the problem but how they are or want to do things, AW is failing
>> into the trap of thinking that anything is a job well done whilst
>> Duncan and 'gang' are failing into the trap were everything has to
>> be quantifiable.
> Everything has to be quantifiable, if it's not how can AW prove that
> his job has been well done?

He can't always and that is his problem, people are using that very
fact to attack him - and if/when Duncan is elected he could well be
attacked in the same way! It's on a par with the "Have you stopped
beating your wife" question.

Pete Knight

On Jul 22, 8:06 pm, ":Jerry:" <INVA...@INVALID.INVALID> wrote:
> "marc" <initial.surn...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>
> news:kKydnShnWPN3Pz7bnZ2dnUVZ8s6gnZ2d@bt.com...
>
>
>
> > :Jerry: wrote:
> >> "Pete Knight" <pete...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:1185125800.190650.40810@w3g2000hsg.googlegr oups.com...
>
> >> <snip>
> >> <quoting "Pete Knight">
> >> The beach days are another event, what is the cost, EC expenses
> >> etc.
> >> set against the gain in membership, shop sales and publicity
> >> gained,
> >> yes I know the publicity gained is hard to quantify, but there must
> >> be
> >> a formula to calculate the gain in monetary terms, Duncan/Andrew,
> >> anybody?
> >> </quote>
>
> >> The only quantifiable way will be by the number of new members
> >> gained (or indeed ex members re joining), you just can't put a
> >> monetary value on good-will,
> > You're wrong! Thousands of businesses change hand every year, and
> > in that changing of hands there is normally a payment made for
> > "goodwill", it's difficult to quantify, but you can put a monetary
> > value on it.
>
> Yes, such good will often be a list of customers etc, very
> quantifiable , in the case of BN the goodwill is nothing like that
> because we simply don't know who's minds have been changed or what
> businesses might latter offer assistance etc. - it's only quantifiable
> once you know what is being offered.
>

Tosh and nonsense, you quite plainly don't have a clue what you're
talking about, you show me the list of customers that the 'Tie Rack'
has, it's a successful business that relies on passing trade. Estate
agents have to quantify 'good will' in order to put a price on a
business, not just the capital value of property, stock, fixtures and
fittings.


>
>
> > but ATM it is this 'good-will' that is most important
> >> [1] - IMO it's not what Andrew (or anyone else) is doing that is
> >> the problem but how they are or want to do things, AW is failing
> >> into the trap of thinking that anything is a job well done whilst
> >> Duncan and 'gang' are failing into the trap were everything has to
> >> be quantifiable.
> > Everything has to be quantifiable, if it's not how can AW prove that
> > his job has been well done?
>
> He can't always and that is his problem, people are using that very
> fact to attack him - and if/when Duncan is elected he could well be
> attacked in the same way! It's on a par with the "Have you stopped
> beating your wife" question.

Duncan is already being attacked and he isn't on the EC yet, but at
least he is engaging with the membership, or at some, through URN and
go-bare which is the only medium available to him prior to taking up
post. Consultation with the membership is what's lacking at the
moment, hopefully will will see a change in that direction, then
hopefully some of the EC will start to reply to e-mailed enquiries.

Pete Knight

:Jerry:

"Pete Knight" <pete084@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1185132811.676644.261530@w3g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
> On Jul 22, 8:06 pm, ":Jerry:" <INVA...@INVALID.INVALID> wrote:
>> "marc" <initial.surn...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:kKydnShnWPN3Pz7bnZ2dnUVZ8s6gnZ2d@bt.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > :Jerry: wrote:
>> >> "Pete Knight" <pete...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >>news:1185125800.190650.40810@w3g2000hsg.googlegr oups.com...
>>
>> >> <snip>
>> >> <quoting "Pete Knight">
>> >> The beach days are another event, what is the cost, EC expenses
>> >> etc.
>> >> set against the gain in membership, shop sales and publicity
>> >> gained,
>> >> yes I know the publicity gained is hard to quantify, but there
>> >> must
>> >> be
>> >> a formula to calculate the gain in monetary terms,
>> >> Duncan/Andrew,
>> >> anybody?
>> >> </quote>
>>
>> >> The only quantifiable way will be by the number of new members
>> >> gained (or indeed ex members re joining), you just can't put a
>> >> monetary value on good-will,
>> > You're wrong! Thousands of businesses change hand every year,
>> > and
>> > in that changing of hands there is normally a payment made for
>> > "goodwill", it's difficult to quantify, but you can put a
>> > monetary
>> > value on it.
>>
>> Yes, such good will often be a list of customers etc, very
>> quantifiable , in the case of BN the goodwill is nothing like that
>> because we simply don't know who's minds have been changed or what
>> businesses might latter offer assistance etc. - it's only
>> quantifiable
>> once you know what is being offered.
>>
>
> Tosh and nonsense, you quite plainly don't have a clue what you're
> talking about, you show me the list of customers that the 'Tie Rack'
> has, it's a successful business that relies on passing trade.

Credit-card / check-card transaction list?

Estate
> agents have to quantify 'good will' in order to put a price on a
> business, not just the capital value of property, stock, fixtures
> and
> fittings.
<snip>

Your point being what, please do tell us how they quantify the value
of the people who have never set foot in the door of a business but
who may do so - this is what BN is faced with, people who in the
future *might* do something that benefits BN because they have been
impressed by some past BN 'venture'.

Pete Knight

On Jul 22, 9:05 pm, ":Jerry:" <INVA...@INVALID.INVALID> wrote:
> "Pete Knight" <pete...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1185132811.676644.261530@w3g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Jul 22, 8:06 pm, ":Jerry:" <INVA...@INVALID.INVALID> wrote:
> >> "marc" <initial.surn...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:kKydnShnWPN3Pz7bnZ2dnUVZ8s6gnZ2d@bt.com.. .
>
> >> > :Jerry: wrote:
> >> >> "Pete Knight" <pete...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >>news:1185125800.190650.40810@w3g2000hsg.googlegr oups.com...
>
> >> >> <snip>
> >> >> <quoting "Pete Knight">
> >> >> The beach days are another event, what is the cost, EC expenses
> >> >> etc.
> >> >> set against the gain in membership, shop sales and publicity
> >> >> gained,
> >> >> yes I know the publicity gained is hard to quantify, but there
> >> >> must
> >> >> be
> >> >> a formula to calculate the gain in monetary terms,
> >> >> Duncan/Andrew,
> >> >> anybody?
> >> >> </quote>
>
> >> >> The only quantifiable way will be by the number of new members
> >> >> gained (or indeed ex members re joining), you just can't put a
> >> >> monetary value on good-will,
> >> > You're wrong! Thousands of businesses change hand every year,
> >> > and
> >> > in that changing of hands there is normally a payment made for
> >> > "goodwill", it's difficult to quantify, but you can put a
> >> > monetary
> >> > value on it.
>
> >> Yes, such good will often be a list of customers etc, very
> >> quantifiable , in the case of BN the goodwill is nothing like that
> >> because we simply don't know who's minds have been changed or what
> >> businesses might latter offer assistance etc. - it's only
> >> quantifiable
> >> once you know what is being offered.
>
> > Tosh and nonsense, you quite plainly don't have a clue what you're
> > talking about, you show me the list of customers that the 'Tie Rack'
> > has, it's a successful business that relies on passing trade.
>
> Credit-card / check-card transaction list?

More tosh and nonsense, its called takings, entered into a ledger then
people called accountants look at the rows of numbers and can tell if
a business is thriving.
>
> Estate> agents have to quantify 'good will' in order to put a price on a
> > business, not just the capital value of property, stock, fixtures
> > and
> > fittings.
>
> <snip>
>
> Your point being what, please do tell us how they quantify the value
> of the people who have never set foot in the door of a business but
> who may do so - this is what BN is faced with, people who in the
> future *might* do something that benefits BN because they have been
> impressed by some past BN 'venture'.

Did I say 'never set foot? You obviously haven't the first clue what
passing trade is, and I don't have the time or patience to give you
lessons in commerce.

Pete Knight

Reg Barlow

On Jul 22, 8:51 pm, ":Jerry:" <INVA...@INVALID.INVALID> wrote:

I'm glad that I've got you all thinking about this, but please
remember my name is spelt R E G B A R L O W and not D U N C A N. You
know, I could get a complex if you keep confusing Duncan and I, and
I'm sure Duncan (the real one that is) will be insulted. He isn't the
only one standing for election you know.

Two more pieces of information I think I should remind you of, well
one really and an observation: the fact is, BN is not incorporated and
the observation is that it appears that Andrew is confusing activity
with actually achieving something.

As I said, I don't have a problem with the 'fun and games', I actually
agree with many of you and think they are an important benefit for
members. But I would like them be managed properly with quantifiable
benefits and outcomes for BN not just Red Letter Days and Alton Towers
or whoever.

Reg
Your friendly HR Manager and prospective Vice Chairman.

Duncan Heenan

":Jerry:" <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote in message
news:46a3b8e3$0$97241$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
> snip <

> Perhaps you have forgotten that we are talking about BN here, the goodwill
> they have received is not quantifiable until benefit is received (unlike a
> customer list), - but you know that, unless you know what is going to
> happen in the future, such a local authorities having a more friendly ear
> when it comes to starting or keeping CO beaches & swims etc...

Measured on that basis, I find it difficult to find any evidence of value
from such 'goodwill'
What evidence is ther that naturism is more widely accepted in the UK now
than, say, 10 years ago?

Duncan Heenan

":Jerry:" <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote in message
news:46a3b8e4$0$97241$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
> snip<
> Your point being what, please do tell us how they quantify the value of
> the people who have never set foot in the door of a business but who may
> do so - this is what BN is faced with, people who in the future *might* do
> something that benefits BN because they have been impressed by some past
> BN 'venture'.
Then why is BN's membership still falling year on year?

Nagumbe

"Duncan Heenan" <pleasenospammersduncanheenan@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in
message news:f81r3g$d3r$1@aioe.org...
>
> ":Jerry:" <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote in message
> news:46a3b8e4$0$97241$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
>> snip<
>> Your point being what, please do tell us how they quantify the value of
>> the people who have never set foot in the door of a business but who may
>> do so - this is what BN is faced with, people who in the future *might*
>> do something that benefits BN because they have been impressed by some
>> past BN 'venture'.
> Then why is BN's membership still falling year on year?
>

Perhaps BN's membership is falling for the same reason that other naturist
organisations' membership in Europe are also declining. People see less
relevance in them than they used to.

In what way do you hope to beat the European trend in membership of a
naturist organisation?

Barry

Duncan Heenan

"Nagumbe" <ww> wrote in message
news:46ad1148$0$1617$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>
> "Duncan Heenan" <pleasenospammersduncanheenan@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in
> message news:f81r3g$d3r$1@aioe.org...
>>
>> ":Jerry:" <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote in message
>> news:46a3b8e4$0$97241$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
>>> snip<
>>> Your point being what, please do tell us how they quantify the value of
>>> the people who have never set foot in the door of a business but who may
>>> do so - this is what BN is faced with, people who in the future *might*
>>> do something that benefits BN because they have been impressed by some
>>> past BN 'venture'.
>> Then why is BN's membership still falling year on year?
>>
>
> Perhaps BN's membership is falling for the same reason that other naturist
> organisations' membership in Europe are also declining. People see less
> relevance in them than they used to.
>
> In what way do you hope to beat the European trend in membership of a
> naturist organisation?
>
> Barry

What a counsel of despair?
Try reading http://bnchange.wordpress.com/ the answers have been on there
for months.
What would you suggest we do?

Michael H

On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 14:05:25 +0100, "Duncan Heenan"
<pleasenospammersduncanheenan@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

>Richard Daniels was campaingning for people to join BN (after all he was
>preaching top the convered- naturism wise),

That's not an unreasonable thing for the chairman of BN to do.

>as well as campaigning against me.

That sounds like paranoia - I was there and didn't hear anything like
that.


--
Cheers
Mike
http://www.eastneybeach.org.uk