Som

My 1994 YZF750R has developed a misfire at exactly 4000rpm. It won't
rev beyond 4000 in fact. Absolutely fine up to 4000. So I can zoom
around at all of about 55mph. This misfire was intermittent for a
while and would 'clear' (power suddenly comes in and revs to redline
no problem) after a few seconds. Now it doesn't clear.
I'm thinking electrical connection - can anyone suggest what might
cause these symptoms? What does the engine/electronics try to do at
4000rpm? EXUP valve?
Hope the expensive looking black box isn't fried...

Cheers!

Andrewr At Work

"Som" <simon.lippmann@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:9b24a556.0402120200.e9e2719@posting.google.co m

> My 1994 YZF750R has developed a misfire at exactly 4000rpm. It won't
> rev beyond 4000 in fact. Absolutely fine up to 4000. So I can zoom
> around at all of about 55mph. This misfire was intermittent for a
> while and would 'clear' (power suddenly comes in and revs to redline
> no problem) after a few seconds. Now it doesn't clear.
> I'm thinking electrical connection - can anyone suggest what might
> cause these symptoms? What does the engine/electronics try to do at
> 4000rpm? EXUP valve?
> Hope the expensive looking black box isn't fried...

Sounds like it is totally shagged.

Tell you what, you sound like an OK bloke so I'll give you 50 quid for
it, if you'll deliver.

--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Volkswagen Passat TDi
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, TEAR#3 (and KotL), DS#5, Keeper of the TFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

tallbloke

"Andrewr At Work" <andrewr@rockface.freeserve.co.uk> spouted the
following in news:20b01f2ce35478a267cd2b192eea9dc0.89895
@mygate.mailgate.org:

> "Som" <simon.lippmann@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:9b24a556.0402120200.e9e2719@posting.google.co m

>> Hope the expensive looking black box isn't fried...
>
> Sounds like it is totally shagged.
>
> Tell you what, you sound like an OK bloke so I'll give you 50 quid for
> it, if you'll deliver.
>

Fifty quid for a shagged black box, bite his hand off.

Could it be a fuel starvation problem? Is air getting intothe tank cap
to allow fuel out? Try setting the tap to 'prime' and pulling the fuel
line off the carb to check there is plenty of flow.

HTH

--
tallbloke

Andrewr At Work

"tallbloke" <rog@tallARSEDbloke.net> wrote in message
news:Xns948D76D1F9B8Bheresthebeer@195.149.20.147

> "Andrewr At Work" <andrewr@rockface.freeserve.co.uk> spouted the
> following in news:20b01f2ce35478a267cd2b192eea9dc0.89895
> @mygate.mailgate.org:
>
> > "Som" <simon.lippmann@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > news:9b24a556.0402120200.e9e2719@posting.google.co m
>
> >> Hope the expensive looking black box isn't fried...
> >
> > Sounds like it is totally shagged.
> >
> > Tell you what, you sound like an OK bloke so I'll give you 50 quid for
> > it, if you'll deliver.
>
> Fifty quid for a shagged black box, bite his hand off.

As I'm sure you're aware I was offering 50 quid for the whole bike.

> Could it be a fuel starvation problem? Is air getting intothe tank cap
> to allow fuel out? Try setting the tap to 'prime' and pulling the fuel
> line off the carb to check there is plenty of flow.

Does the YZF _really_ have a prime setting on the fuel tap? You do know
it's a bike from the 90s and not the 50s, don't you?

--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Volkswagen Passat TDi
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, TEAR#3 (and KotL), DS#5, Keeper of the TFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

tallbloke

"Andrewr At Work" <andrewr@rockface.freeserve.co.uk> spouted the following
in news:c2a631f8a9ebddddbb547ffa38f766f7.89895@mygate .mailgate.org:

> "tallbloke" <rog@tallARSEDbloke.net> wrote in message
>> Try setting the tap to 'prime' and pulling the fuel
>> line off the carb to check there is plenty of flow.
>
> Does the YZF _really_ have a prime setting on the fuel tap? You do know
> it's a bike from the 90s and not the 50s, don't you?
>

Bikes from the fifties have off-on-reserve.

Bikes from the nineties have vacuum tanks which have a prime setting to
allow the free flow of fuel for cold starting. Or most opf the ones I've
played with have anyway. YMMV

--
tallbloke

Andrewr At Work

"tallbloke" <rog@tallARSEDbloke.net> wrote in message
news:Xns948D7A6204E6Bheresthebeer@195.149.20.147

> "Andrewr At Work" <andrewr@rockface.freeserve.co.uk> spouted the following
> in news:c2a631f8a9ebddddbb547ffa38f766f7.89895@mygate .mailgate.org:

<SNIP>

> > Does the YZF _really_ have a prime setting on the fuel tap? You do know
> > it's a bike from the 90s and not the 50s, don't you?
> >
>
> Bikes from the fifties have off-on-reserve.

So does my 2000 bike, and so did my 90s CBR4.

> Bikes from the nineties have vacuum tanks which have a prime setting to
> allow the free flow of fuel for cold starting. Or most opf the ones I've
> played with have anyway. YMMV

Never seen a "prime" setting on a modern bike, but I haven't looked that
closely at many of them.

--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Volkswagen Passat TDi
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, TEAR#3 (and KotL), DS#5, Keeper of the TFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Champ

On 12 Feb 2004 11:40:50 GMT, tallbloke <rog@tallARSEDbloke.net> wrote:

>Could it be a fuel starvation problem? Is air getting intothe tank cap
>to allow fuel out?

That wouldn't cause the "brick wall" effect at 4k, surely.

What we didn't ask is if it'll rev past 4k in nuetral


--
Champ : Old enough to know better
GSX-R 1000, GPz 750 turbo, ZX-7RR Endurance Racer x 2
GYASB#0;BotToS#2;BOTAFO(T|F)#35;UKRMFBC#2;IHABWTMM J#3;MCT#5;WG*#1;BONY#40;DFV#8;IbW#17;SBS#34;BHaLC# 1
Racing : www.team-ukrm.co.uk. Vanity Publishing : www.champ.org.uk

Champ

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:08:19 +0000 (UTC), "Andrewr At Work"
<andrewr@rockface.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>> Bikes from the nineties have vacuum tanks which have a prime setting to
>> allow the free flow of fuel for cold starting. Or most opf the ones I've
>> played with have anyway. YMMV
>
>Never seen a "prime" setting on a modern bike, but I haven't looked that
>closely at many of them.

Gravity fuel feed bikes tend to have a prime. Bikes with fuel pumps
have gone back to on|off|reserve.
--
Champ : Old enough to know better
GSX-R 1000, GPz 750 turbo, ZX-7RR Endurance Racer x 2
GYASB#0;BotToS#2;BOTAFO(T|F)#35;UKRMFBC#2;IHABWTMM J#3;MCT#5;WG*#1;BONY#40;DFV#8;IbW#17;SBS#34;BHaLC# 1
Racing : www.team-ukrm.co.uk. Vanity Publishing : www.champ.org.uk

tallbloke

"Andrewr At Work" <andrewr@rockface.freeserve.co.uk> spouted the
following in
news:5877d5b2ff25f0550582243ef42192e2.89895@mygate .mailgate.org:

> "tallbloke" <rog@tallARSEDbloke.net> wrote in message

>> Bikes from the fifties have off-on-reserve.
>
> So does my 2000 bike, and so did my 90s CBR4.

My Bike from the 40's has off-on and push. ;o)

>
>> Bikes from the nineties have vacuum tanks which have a prime setting
>> to allow the free flow of fuel for cold starting. Or most opf the
>> ones I've played with have anyway. YMMV
>
> Never seen a "prime" setting on a modern bike, but I haven't looked
> that closely at many of them.

Hmm. On reflection, it may be more an '80's thing. Suzuki and Kawasaki
used to have 'prime' positions on most middleweights I'm pretty sure.

Anyway, for the benefit of the OP just open the fuel cap and pull the
fuel line off to check that there is adequate fuel flow.

--
tallbloke

>

tallbloke

Champ <news@champ.org.uk> spouted the following in
news:3rrm20trds5qq17rorm0iod1cg9sppqihi@4ax.com:


> Gravity fuel feed bikes tend to have a prime. Bikes with fuel pumps
> have gone back to on|off|reserve.

Ahh, of course. Thanks for the clarification.

--
tallbloke

tallbloke

Champ <news@champ.org.uk> spouted the following in
news:qorm2010n1fv4t5dca56mau5fav54flt2r@4ax.com:

> On 12 Feb 2004 11:40:50 GMT, tallbloke <rog@tallARSEDbloke.net> wrote:
>
>>Could it be a fuel starvation problem? Is air getting intothe tank cap
>>to allow fuel out?
>
> That wouldn't cause the "brick wall" effect at 4k, surely.
>
> What we didn't ask is if it'll rev past 4k in nuetral
>
>

Or if it happens immediately from start up,or with the choke on.
Or when the air filter was last decrudded.

--
tallbloke

Som

simon.lippmann@ntlworld.com (Som) wrote in message news:<9b24a556.0402120200.e9e2719@posting.google.c om>...
> My 1994 YZF750R has developed a misfire at exactly 4000rpm. It won't
> rev beyond 4000 in fact. Absolutely fine up to 4000. So I can zoom
> around at all of about 55mph. This misfire was intermittent for a
> while and would 'clear' (power suddenly comes in and revs to redline
> no problem) after a few seconds. Now it doesn't clear.
> I'm thinking electrical connection - can anyone suggest what might
> cause these symptoms? What does the engine/electronics try to do at
> 4000rpm? EXUP valve?
> Hope the expensive looking black box isn't fried...
>
> Cheers!

Don't think it's fuel starvation - it revs freely to (all of) 3800rpm
or so, just at 4000 it's like hitting a rev limiter. Won't go beyond
it. Went for 20 miles to work at 55mph max like that. Really looking
forward to the journey home.
Something must be trying to happen at 4000rpm but ain't working?

Steve Bullimore

simon.lippmann@ntlworld.com (Som) wrote in message news:<9b24a556.0402120200.e9e2719@posting.google.c om>...
> My 1994 YZF750R has developed a misfire at exactly 4000rpm. It won't
> rev beyond 4000 in fact. Absolutely fine up to 4000. So I can zoom
> around at all of about 55mph. This misfire was intermittent for a
> while and would 'clear' (power suddenly comes in and revs to redline
> no problem) after a few seconds. Now it doesn't clear.
> I'm thinking electrical connection - can anyone suggest what might
> cause these symptoms? What does the engine/electronics try to do at
> 4000rpm? EXUP valve?
> Hope the expensive looking black box isn't fried...
>
> Cheers!


I test rode a YZF750 once and it did exactly the same thing half way
though my test ride. When I got back to the dealer he said it was the
exup valve had got stuck.

I've had the exup valve stick on my old R1 but I dont remember it
doing this - I remember it wasnt such an abrupt cut off in power.

Anyway, its the first thing to check I guess.

Steve.

HedgeHog

"Champ" <news@champ.org.uk> wrote in message
news:3rrm20trds5qq17rorm0iod1cg9sppqihi@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:08:19 +0000 (UTC), "Andrewr At Work"
> <andrewr@rockface.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >> Bikes from the nineties have vacuum tanks which have a prime setting to
> >> allow the free flow of fuel for cold starting. Or most opf the ones
I've
> >> played with have anyway. YMMV
> >
> >Never seen a "prime" setting on a modern bike, but I haven't looked that
> >closely at many of them.
>
> Gravity fuel feed bikes tend to have a prime. Bikes with fuel pumps
> have gone back to on|off|reserve.

And the YZF is different again.

It's gravity fed, up to the point when the reserve tank is needed, at which
point the pump is used to empty the bit below the level of the carbs.
However the pump runs for a short time to prime the carbs when the ignition
is switched on.

And it has no fuel tap at all.


--
HedgeHog AKA Paul Hendrick
YZF750R Bultaco Sherpa
BONY#3 BOTAFOT#101

Remove KHH to reply by email

HedgeHog

"Steve Bullimore" <steve@spleen2.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6186ad8d.0402120844.771cfd08@posting.google.c om...
> simon.lippmann@ntlworld.com (Som) wrote in message
news:<9b24a556.0402120200.e9e2719@posting.google.c om>...
> > My 1994 YZF750R has developed a misfire at exactly 4000rpm. It won't
> > rev beyond 4000 in fact. Absolutely fine up to 4000. So I can zoom
> > around at all of about 55mph. This misfire was intermittent for a
> > while and would 'clear' (power suddenly comes in and revs to redline
> > no problem) after a few seconds. Now it doesn't clear.
> > I'm thinking electrical connection - can anyone suggest what might
> > cause these symptoms? What does the engine/electronics try to do at
> > 4000rpm? EXUP valve?
> > Hope the expensive looking black box isn't fried...
> >
> > Cheers!
>
>


I've had the EXUP valve cable snap on mine, and it would rev to about 5 and
no more. It also got very noisy around the header pipes when you tried to
rev it hard.

I did manage about 70 on it, but no more. The more throttle you opened the
slower it went, as you're creating even more back pressure.

Check this first. If it's fuel it'll tend to go alright for a short (maybe
very short) time, and then run out of puff.


HTH
--
HedgeHog AKA Paul Hendrick
YZF750R Bultaco Sherpa
BONY#3 BOTAFOT#101

Remove KHH to reply by email

Muck

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:19:17 +0000, Champ wrote:

> On 12 Feb 2004 11:40:50 GMT, tallbloke <rog@tallARSEDbloke.net> wrote:
>
>>Could it be a fuel starvation problem? Is air getting intothe tank cap
>>to allow fuel out?
>
> That wouldn't cause the "brick wall" effect at 4k, surely.
>
> What we didn't ask is if it'll rev past 4k in nuetral

Sounds like an electrical problem to me. Maybe the CDI is fecked?

--
Muck
Bandit 600n; CG125(MSOHPR); DS#1 ; DOMO# ; SH#2
"There's no place like ::1"
Remove _TEETH_ to e-mail

tallbloke

Muck <mr.muck@vir_TEETH_gin.net> spouted the following in
> I won't challenge you to a race with my CG125 now though.
>

<MSOHP>

--
tallbloke

sweller

Champ wrote:

> > Never seen a "prime" setting on a modern bike, but I haven't looked
> > that closely at many of them.
>
> Gravity fuel feed bikes tend to have a prime.

....but only ones with vacuum operated taps.

--
Simon

Brighton | MYSOB: http://www.sweller.co.uk/sob/
England | MZSOB: http://www.mztech.fsnet.co.uk/

Ben

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:56:15 +0000, "sweller" <ng@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:

>Champ wrote:
>
>> > Never seen a "prime" setting on a modern bike, but I haven't looked
>> > that closely at many of them.
>>
>> Gravity fuel feed bikes tend to have a prime.
>
>...but only ones with vacuum operated taps.

This is all rather quaint really.

Half of the bikes I've owned have had fuel injection.
--
GSXR1000 DIAABTCOD#11 BOTAFOT#75 ex-two#19
"We take these risks, not to escape from life,
but to prevent life escaping from us."
http://www.bensales.com

darsy

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:36:11 +0000, Ben <ukrm@bensales.com> wrote:

>This is all rather quaint really.
>
>Half of the bikes I've owned have had fuel injection.

well, you haven't owned very many bikes, have you...


--
d.

Champ

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:36:11 +0000, Ben <ukrm@bensales.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:56:15 +0000, "sweller" <ng@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>Champ wrote:
>>
>>> > Never seen a "prime" setting on a modern bike, but I haven't looked
>>> > that closely at many of them.
>>>
>>> Gravity fuel feed bikes tend to have a prime.
>>
>>...but only ones with vacuum operated taps.
>
>This is all rather quaint really.
>
>Half of the bikes I've owned have had fuel injection.

As if that's something new. The brand new bike I bought in 1983 had
fuel injection.
--
Champ : Old enough to know
GSX-R 1000, GPz 750 turbo, ZX7RR Endurance Racer
GYASB#0 BotToS#2 BOTAFO(T|F)#35 UKRMFBC#2 IHABWTMMJ#3 MCT#5 WG*#1 BONY#40 DFV#8 IbW#17 SBS#34
Racing : www.team-ukrm.com. Vanity Publishing : www.champ.org.uk

Ben

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:14:52 +0000, darsy <darsy@sticky.co.uk> wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:36:11 +0000, Ben <ukrm@bensales.com> wrote:
>
>>This is all rather quaint really.
>>
>>Half of the bikes I've owned have had fuel injection.
>
>well, you haven't owned very many bikes, have you...

true...
--
GSXR1000 DIAABTCOD#11 BOTAFOT#75 ex-two#19
"We take these risks, not to escape from life,
but to prevent life escaping from us."
http://www.bensales.com

Ben

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:21:57 +0000, Champ <ukrm@champ.org.uk> wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:36:11 +0000, Ben <ukrm@bensales.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:56:15 +0000, "sweller" <ng@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Champ wrote:
>>>
>>>> > Never seen a "prime" setting on a modern bike, but I haven't looked
>>>> > that closely at many of them.
>>>>
>>>> Gravity fuel feed bikes tend to have a prime.
>>>
>>>...but only ones with vacuum operated taps.
>>
>>This is all rather quaint really.
>>
>>Half of the bikes I've owned have had fuel injection.
>
>As if that's something new. The brand new bike I bought in 1983 had
>fuel injection.

Any musings on why it hasn't yet become the norm when you'd be hard
pushed to find a car without it?
--
GSXR1000 DIAABTCOD#11 BOTAFOT#75 ex-two#19
"We take these risks, not to escape from life,
but to prevent life escaping from us."
http://www.bensales.com

Grimly Curmudgeon

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:18:40 +0000, Ben <ukrm@bensales.com> wrote:

>>As if that's something new. The brand new bike I bought in 1983 had
>>fuel injection.
>
>Any musings on why it hasn't yet become the norm when you'd be hard
>pushed to find a car without it?

Bike buyers tend to be a conservative bunch and prefer the supposed
reliability of carbs.

FI on bikes suffered from unreliability in the early days, leading to
the above pov.

FI on bikes isn't really all that well sorted yet. Fine most of the
time, for most bikes, but isn't 100%.

Fwiw, I'd be keen on FI, as long as it was user serviceable.

--

Dave

GS 850 x2 / SE 6a
SbS#6 DIAABTCOD#16 APOSTLE#6 FUB#3
FUB KotL OSOS#12? UKRMMA#19

Catman

Ben wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:21:57 +0000, Champ <ukrm@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:36:11 +0000, Ben <ukrm@bensales.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:56:15 +0000, "sweller" <ng@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Champ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> > Never seen a "prime" setting on a modern bike, but I haven't looked
>>>>> > that closely at many of them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gravity fuel feed bikes tend to have a prime.
>>>>
>>>>...but only ones with vacuum operated taps.
>>>
>>>This is all rather quaint really.
>>>
>>>Half of the bikes I've owned have had fuel injection.
>>
>>As if that's something new. The brand new bike I bought in 1983 had
>>fuel injection.
>
> Any musings on why it hasn't yet become the norm when you'd be hard
> pushed to find a car without it?


Catalytic converters for one thing
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

Ben

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:15:01 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon
<grimlycurmudgeon683@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:18:40 +0000, Ben <ukrm@bensales.com> wrote:
>
>>>As if that's something new. The brand new bike I bought in 1983 had
>>>fuel injection.
>>
>>Any musings on why it hasn't yet become the norm when you'd be hard
>>pushed to find a car without it?
>
>Bike buyers tend to be a conservative bunch and prefer the supposed
>reliability of carbs.

I don't think bike buyers are conservative. If they were they
conservative then Kawasaki wouldn't be releasing bikes like the ZX10R.

>FI on bikes suffered from unreliability in the early days, leading to
>the above pov.

That's true.

>FI on bikes isn't really all that well sorted yet. Fine most of the
>time, for most bikes, but isn't 100%.

Disagree. Both have my FI bikes have run just as well as my carbed
ones. The CPU in the GSXR is more powerful than the desktop PC I
bought in 1996.

>Fwiw, I'd be keen on FI, as long as it was user serviceable.

I think the days of user-serviceability on all areas of bikes are
numbered. Especially electronic bits.
--
GSXR1000 DIAABTCOD#11 BOTAFOT#75 ex-two#19
"We take these risks, not to escape from life,
but to prevent life escaping from us."
http://www.bensales.com

Ben

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:20:43 GMT, Catman
<catman@cuore-rustsportivo.co.uk> wrote:

>Ben wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:21:57 +0000, Champ <ukrm@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:36:11 +0000, Ben <ukrm@bensales.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:56:15 +0000, "sweller" <ng@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Champ wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> > Never seen a "prime" setting on a modern bike, but I haven't looked
>>>>>> > that closely at many of them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gravity fuel feed bikes tend to have a prime.
>>>>>
>>>>>...but only ones with vacuum operated taps.
>>>>
>>>>This is all rather quaint really.
>>>>
>>>>Half of the bikes I've owned have had fuel injection.
>>>
>>>As if that's something new. The brand new bike I bought in 1983 had
>>>fuel injection.
>>
>> Any musings on why it hasn't yet become the norm when you'd be hard
>> pushed to find a car without it?
>
>
>Catalytic converters for one thing

Cats on cars I assume you mean? Why do they make a difference?
--
GSXR1000 DIAABTCOD#11 BOTAFOT#75 ex-two#19
"We take these risks, not to escape from life,
but to prevent life escaping from us."
http://www.bensales.com

Lozzo

Previously on ukrm, Ben said...
> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:56:15 +0000, "sweller" <ng@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >Champ wrote:
> >
> >> > Never seen a "prime" setting on a modern bike, but I haven't looked
> >> > that closely at many of them.
> >>
> >> Gravity fuel feed bikes tend to have a prime.
> >
> >...but only ones with vacuum operated taps.
>
> This is all rather quaint really.
>
> Half of the bikes I've owned have had fuel injection.

I've never had a fuel injection problem on any of my bikes.
I've never owned a fuel injection bike though.

--
Lozzo : The anti-Timo
ZZR1100D, GPZ500S, CB250RS x3
BOTAFOT#57/70a, BOTAFOF#57, two#49(suspended), MIB#22, TCP#7,
ANORAK#9, DIAABTCOD#14, UKRMT5BB, IBW#013, MIRTTH#15a/16,
BotToS#8, GP#2, SBS#10, SH#3, DFV#14, BONY#9.
Url for ukrm newbies : http://www.ukrm.net/faq/ukrmscbt.html
http://www.glfuk.com/ for MJK Leathers in the UK.
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

Champ

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:36:33 +0000, Ben <ukrm@bensales.com> wrote:

>>>>As if that's something new. The brand new bike I bought in 1983 had
>>>>fuel injection.
>>>
>>>Any musings on why it hasn't yet become the norm when you'd be hard
>>>pushed to find a car without it?
>>
>>Bike buyers tend to be a conservative bunch and prefer the supposed
>>reliability of carbs.
>
>I don't think bike buyers are conservative. If they were they
>conservative then Kawasaki wouldn't be releasing bikes like the ZX10R.

No, they are. The ZX10R isn't really radical - just current
technology moved along a notch or two. Whenever a really radical bike
has been realised (e.g. Yam GTS1000) it's sunk like a stone.

>>FI on bikes suffered from unreliability in the early days, leading to
>>the above pov.
>
>That's true.

Well, it was more that I think it took a while to make it robust
enough for the more hostile environment on a bike.

>>FI on bikes isn't really all that well sorted yet. Fine most of the
>>time, for most bikes, but isn't 100%.
>
>Disagree. Both have my FI bikes have run just as well as my carbed
>ones. The CPU in the GSXR is more powerful than the desktop PC I
>bought in 1996.

It is now, but it wasn't in the 80s.

>>Fwiw, I'd be keen on FI, as long as it was user serviceable.

This last to Grimley - what on earth does he want to service within an
FI system?
--
Champ : Old enough to know
GSX-R 1000, GPz 750 turbo, ZX7RR Endurance Racer
GYASB#0 BotToS#2 BOTAFO(T|F)#35 UKRMFBC#2 IHABWTMMJ#3 MCT#5 WG*#1 BONY#40 DFV#8 IbW#17 SBS#34
Racing : www.team-ukrm.com. Vanity Publishing : www.champ.org.uk

Catman

Ben wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:20:43 GMT, Catman
> <catman@cuore-rustsportivo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Ben wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:21:57 +0000, Champ <ukrm@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:36:11 +0000, Ben <ukrm@bensales.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:56:15 +0000, "sweller" <ng@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Champ wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > Never seen a "prime" setting on a modern bike, but I haven't
>>>>>>> > looked that closely at many of them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gravity fuel feed bikes tend to have a prime.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>...but only ones with vacuum operated taps.
>>>>>
>>>>>This is all rather quaint really.
>>>>>
>>>>>Half of the bikes I've owned have had fuel injection.
>>>>
>>>>As if that's something new. The brand new bike I bought in 1983 had
>>>>fuel injection.
>>>
>>> Any musings on why it hasn't yet become the norm when you'd be hard
>>> pushed to find a car without it?
>>
>>
>>Catalytic converters for one thing
>
> Cats on cars I assume you mean? Why do they make a difference?

Well, cats are pretty much required on cars to pass emissions tests, not on
bikes.

AIUI although it is possible (and has been done) to make a carburated fuel
system work sufficiently accurately to work with a cat, it's a damn site
harde than using an FI system.
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

Catman

Pip wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:54:22 GMT, Catman
> <catman@cuore-rustsportivo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Ben wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:20:43 GMT, Catman
>>> <catman@cuore-rustsportivo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Ben wrote:
>
> [Fuel Injection]
>
>>>>> Any musings on why it hasn't yet become the norm when you'd be hard
>>>>> pushed to find a car without it?
>
>>>>Catalytic converters for one thing
>
> *di*
>
> That's for half an answer.
>
> ITYF that "emissions" would be the one word answer. Pressure was
> brought to bear on car manufacturers much sooner than those of bikes,
> as there's a lot more cars clocking up a lot more miles and a lot more
> hours sat in traffic in cities.
>>>
>>> Cats on cars I assume you mean? Why do they make a difference?
>>
>>Well, cats are pretty much required on cars to pass emissions tests, not
>>on bikes.
>>
>>AIUI although it is possible (and has been done) to make a carburated fuel
>>system work sufficiently accurately to work with a cat, it's a damn site
>>harde than using an FI system.
>
> Calibration, innit. Cats don't work in the UK. The ambient
> temperature is generally too low for the cat to function optimally.

I thought cats needed to be a several hundred degrees to funtion?

<snip>
> End of the line for the humble carb - on the road, at least. A
> popular tweak for the 2.0 16 valve Astra GTE engine, which is a pretty
> pokey bit of kit as standard, is to whip off and junk the FI and its
> brain and replace with a pair of twin Webers or Dell'Ortos which yield
> better torque and 20bhp at a stroke. Only legitimate on the track (or
> between MoTs), mind.
>

Many septics do this with twin cam alfas with the Spica injection. Though
that has almost as much to do with the fact that it is nearly impossible to
find someone to look after them properly
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

Pip

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 21:01:31 GMT, Catman
<catman@cuore-rustsportivo.co.uk> wrote:

>Pip wrote:

>> Calibration, innit. Cats don't work in the UK. The ambient
>> temperature is generally too low for the cat to function optimally.
>
>I thought cats needed to be a several hundred degrees to funtion?

AIUI the ambient temp and associated wind chill/cold water splash
provide an unfriendly environment for cats to work in. Smell that
rotten eggs? That's a cat not doing its job.

--
Pip, Hairy Gfedcker. RF 900RR, Ruff and Rattly.
WS* DFWAG#0 IbW#27* DIAABTCOD#15 GP#0 EKP FUB#4 MKA+E#3
ANORAK#8 MIRTTH#15 BOTAFOT/F#47/34a BONY#13 KotMIB# <space>
UKRMRM#14 TWA#2

Catman

Pip wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 21:01:31 GMT, Catman
> <catman@cuore-rustsportivo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Pip wrote:
>
>>> Calibration, innit. Cats don't work in the UK. The ambient
>>> temperature is generally too low for the cat to function optimally.
>>
>>I thought cats needed to be a several hundred degrees to funtion?
>
> AIUI the ambient temp and associated wind chill/cold water splash
> provide an unfriendly environment for cats to work in.

Fair point

>Smell that
> rotten eggs? That's a cat not doing its job.

I always thought it was a broken one, but the symptoms would be similar

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

Grimly Curmudgeon