Re: OT: Decorating

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:10:36 +0100, Halla
<halla@drunkenbastards.spam.com> wrote:

>We've just put up new lights here, since we're tarting the place up to
>sell. Last time the OH fitted a light in the living room he discovered
>that the live wire is black, with a bit of red tape round it. Except
>he managed to cut the tape off, and wired the light wrong. Every time
>it was switched off the circuit breaker would go too.

That's the "switched neutral". As he found, you lose the red tape at
your peril.

--
Pip, Ex - Hairy Gfedcker. RF 900RR, Ruff and Rattly.
WS* DFWAG#0 IbW#27* DIAABTCOD#15 GP#0 EKP FUB#4 MKA+E#3
ANORAK#8 MIRTTH#15 BOTAFOT/F#47/34a BONY#13 KotMIB# <space>
UKRMRM#14 TWA#2

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:19:53 +0100, Pip <pip@ukrm.net> blethered:

>On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:10:36 +0100, Halla
><halla@drunkenbastards.spam.com> wrote:
>
>>We've just put up new lights here, since we're tarting the place up to
>>sell. Last time the OH fitted a light in the living room he discovered
>>that the live wire is black, with a bit of red tape round it. Except
>>he managed to cut the tape off, and wired the light wrong. Every time
>>it was switched off the circuit breaker would go too.
>
>That's the "switched neutral".

Aha. Thanks, I shall endeavour to retain that information.

>As he found, you lose the red tape at
>your peril.

Yeees. We put another bit of tape on it this time, just in case. The
people who built this place appear to have got a cheap job-lot of
black wire, and they also seem to have been incapable of marking out a
proper angle or straight line.

Halla wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:19:53 +0100, Pip <pip@ukrm.net> blethered:
>
>>On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:10:36 +0100, Halla
>><halla@drunkenbastards.spam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>We've just put up new lights here, since we're tarting the place up to
>>>sell. Last time the OH fitted a light in the living room he discovered
>>>that the live wire is black, with a bit of red tape round it. Except
>>>he managed to cut the tape off, and wired the light wrong. Every time
>>>it was switched off the circuit breaker would go too.
>>
>>That's the "switched neutral".
>
> Aha. Thanks, I shall endeavour to retain that information.
>
>>As he found, you lose the red tape at
>>your peril.
>
> Yeees. We put another bit of tape on it this time, just in case. The
> people who built this place appear to have got a cheap job-lot of
> black wire, and they also seem to have been incapable of marking out a
> proper angle or straight line.

I think we must have bought our houses from the same bloke.

When we first moved in I installed some kitchen units. There is a need
to drill holes to fix the cupboards to. One cupboard was to go below an
electric socket, so the holes were about a foot either side of it.
Guess what. after a moment's drilling 'BANG' and 'FLASH'. The wire
from the socket came down in a sort of an arc instead of the expected
straight line.

This and other interesting things have been discovered since. The wires
in our light fitting weren't marked at all.

--
John

SV650
Black it is
and naked

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:50:51 +0100, Halla
<halla@drunkenbastards.spam.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:19:53 +0100, Pip <pip@ukrm.net> blethered:
>
>>On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:10:36 +0100, Halla
>><halla@drunkenbastards.spam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>We've just put up new lights here, since we're tarting the place up to
>>>sell. Last time the OH fitted a light in the living room he discovered
>>>that the live wire is black, with a bit of red tape round it. Except
>>>he managed to cut the tape off, and wired the light wrong. Every time
>>>it was switched off the circuit breaker would go too.
>>
>>That's the "switched neutral".
>
>Aha. Thanks, I shall endeavour to retain that information.
>
>>As he found, you lose the red tape at
>>your peril.
>
>Yeees. We put another bit of tape on it this time, just in case. The
>people who built this place appear to have got a cheap job-lot of
>black wire,

ITYF it's *meant* to be black. ISTBC though

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:09:05 GMT, Catman
<catman@cuore-rustsportivo.co.uk> blethered:

>On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:50:51 +0100, Halla
><halla@drunkenbastards.spam.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:19:53 +0100, Pip <pip@ukrm.net> blethered:
>>
>>>On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:10:36 +0100, Halla
>>><halla@drunkenbastards.spam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>We've just put up new lights here, since we're tarting the place up to
>>>>sell. Last time the OH fitted a light in the living room he discovered
>>>>that the live wire is black, with a bit of red tape round it. Except
>>>>he managed to cut the tape off, and wired the light wrong. Every time
>>>>it was switched off the circuit breaker would go too.
>>>
>>>That's the "switched neutral".
>>
>>Aha. Thanks, I shall endeavour to retain that information.
>>
>>>As he found, you lose the red tape at
>>>your peril.
>>
>>Yeees. We put another bit of tape on it this time, just in case. The
>>people who built this place appear to have got a cheap job-lot of
>>black wire,
>
>ITYF it's *meant* to be black. ISTBC though

Ah. It's an education, this place.

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Pip <pip@ukrm.net> saying something
like:

>That's the "switched neutral".

Live, you mean. That's what the red tape's for.

--

Dave

GS 850 x2 / SE 6a
SbS#6 DIAABTCOD#16 APOSTLE#6 FUB#3
FUB KotL OSOS#12? UKRMMA#19 COSOC#10

joe parkin said:

>Wise move, as house leccy is AC the difference between live and nuetral
>is not important both will shoot through you into earth.

You really don't know a lot about anything do you?

Go away and work out why the neutral is called that and why it wont
electrocute you.
--
Simes
Return address ROT'd...

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember joe parkin
<joeparkinchinese@btinternet.com> saying something like:

>
>Wise move, as house leccy is AC the difference between live and nuetral
>is not important both will shoot through you into earth.

Neutral is grounded at the suppliers end, so is effectively at earth
potential in the house. There might be a floating neutral introduced
when a connection goes dodgy, and it can lead to neutral being at mains
potential simply because the neutral lead then becomes part of the live
circuitry until the fault is cleared.

Your blanket assertion, otoh, is bollocks, although it pays to test
before touching.

--

Dave

GS 850 x2 / SE 6a
SbS#6 DIAABTCOD#16 APOSTLE#6 FUB#3
FUB KotL OSOS#12? UKRMMA#19 COSOC#10

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

> It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
> drugs began to take hold. I remember joe parkin
> <joeparkinchinese@btinternet.com> saying something like:
>
>>
>>Wise move, as house leccy is AC the difference between live and nuetral
>>is not important both will shoot through you into earth.
>
> Neutral is grounded at the suppliers end, so is effectively at earth
> potential in the house.

Fascinating. I'm *sure* I remeber being taught that there was always
potential twixt neutral and earth. Just goes to show

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

In article <epst70tgf7tjn86b2hf51o0d818q5e9ocr@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
says...
> joe parkin said:
>
> >Wise move, as house leccy is AC the difference between live and nuetral
> >is not important both will shoot through you into earth.
>
> You really don't know a lot about anything do you?
>
> Go away and work out why the neutral is called that and why it wont
> electrocute you.
>
Because it is tied to earth back at the leccy station. The nuetral AND
the live will kill you if you touch it and earth.
I never said nuetral will not electrocute you, I said both will

--
Joe
Chinese takeaway to reply

In article <h9tt70ls953kh7vjk9eivnndqti9r7uth0@4ax.com>,
grimlycurmudgeon683@hotmail.com says...
> potential in the house. There might be a floating neutral introduced
> when a connection goes dodgy, and it can lead to neutral being at mains
> potential simply because the neutral lead then becomes part of the live
> circuitry until the fault is cleared.
>
> Your blanket assertion, otoh, is bollocks, although it pays to test
> before touching.

So you can touch earth and neutral at the same time and not get a
shock?

--
Joe
Chinese takeaway to reply

joe parkin said:

>In article <epst70tgf7tjn86b2hf51o0d818q5e9ocr@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
>says...
>> joe parkin said:
>>
>> >Wise move, as house leccy is AC the difference between live and nuetral
>> >is not important both will shoot through you into earth.
>>
>> You really don't know a lot about anything do you?
>>
>> Go away and work out why the neutral is called that and why it wont
>> electrocute you.
>>
>Because it is tied to earth back at the leccy station. The nuetral AND
>the live will kill you if you touch it and earth.
>I never said nuetral will not electrocute you, I said both will

You were wrong. Neutral is at earth potential.
--
Simes
Return address ROT'd...

In article <sa1u70tnfkoh9pj9p6j5vtgosl9ogspdr3@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
says...
> >Because it is tied to earth back at the leccy station. The nuetral AND
> >the live will kill you if you touch it and earth.
> >I never said nuetral will not electrocute you, I said both will
>
> You were wrong. Neutral is at earth potential.

Sorry, I am wrong the neutral has no pd between it and earth. The live
is alternatively positive and negative relative to the neutral. The
supply is 3 phase with single phase going to houses. Noone should touch
neutral and rely on not getting a shock.
You are correct, but people have to be wary of relying on not getting a
shock when touching neutral.

--
Joe
Chinese takeaway to reply

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember joe parkin
<joeparkinchinese@btinternet.com> saying something like:

>Because it is tied to earth back at the leccy station. The nuetral AND
>the live will kill you if you touch it and earth.
>I never said nuetral will not electrocute you, I said both will

Neutral won't. If you're daft enough to grab both at the same time, then
you deserve all you get.

Try 440v - a helluva rush.

--

Dave

GS 850 x2 / SE 6a
SbS#6 DIAABTCOD#16 APOSTLE#6 FUB#3
FUB KotL OSOS#12? UKRMMA#19 COSOC#10

joe parkin said:

>In article <sa1u70tnfkoh9pj9p6j5vtgosl9ogspdr3@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
>says...
>> >Because it is tied to earth back at the leccy station. The nuetral AND
>> >the live will kill you if you touch it and earth.
>> >I never said nuetral will not electrocute you, I said both will
>>
>> You were wrong. Neutral is at earth potential.
>
>Sorry, I am wrong the neutral has no pd between it and earth. The live
>is alternatively positive and negative relative to the neutral. The
>supply is 3 phase with single phase going to houses. Noone should touch
>neutral and rely on not getting a shock.
>You are correct, but people have to be wary of relying on not getting a
>shock when touching neutral.

Just brush it with the back of your hand - if you get a tingle, it's
live, and you probably have a wiring fault.
--
Simes
Return address ROT'd...

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:53:36 +0100, joe parkin
<joeparkinchinese@btinternet.com> dropped the following oil-slick:
>
>So you can touch earth and neutral at the same time and not get a
>shock?

Isn't that effectively what you do if you just touch neutral without
wearing your wellies?
--
gomez
Honda VFR,KTM 640LC Enduro
(not is hot to reply)
"The best tool for the job is the hammer thats nearest to hand"

In article <ff2u70hdg5f207f0a1mdj82ij4703vhpiu@4ax.com>,
adams_gomez@hotmail.com says...
> On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:53:36 +0100, joe parkin
> <joeparkinchinese@btinternet.com> dropped the following oil-slick:
> >
> >So you can touch earth and neutral at the same time and not get a
> >shock?
>
> Isn't that effectively what you do if you just touch neutral without
> wearing your wellies?
>
Only if you have a sheep between your wellies
--
Joe
Chinese takeaway to reply

In article <tc2u70p4k26g2qgitaqgtep320op3f9seu@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
says...
> Just brush it with the back of your hand - if you get a tingle, it's
> live, and you probably have a wiring fault.

After numerous shocks I always use a multimeter.

--
Joe
Chinese takeaway to reply

joe parkin said:

>In article <tc2u70p4k26g2qgitaqgtep320op3f9seu@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
>says...
>> Just brush it with the back of your hand - if you get a tingle, it's
>> live, and you probably have a wiring fault.
>
>After numerous shocks I always use a multimeter.

Girl.
--
Simes
Return address ROT'd...

In article <du2u70h9mcvese88dkpm0rg92r04tok34j@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
says...
>
> >After numerous shocks I always use a multimeter.
>
> Girl.
>
With sticky up hair, yes
--
Joe
Chinese takeaway to reply

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Catman
<catman@cuore-rustsportivo.co.uk> saying something like:

>> Neutral is grounded at the suppliers end, so is effectively at earth
>> potential in the house.
>
>Fascinating. I'm *sure* I remeber being taught that there was always
>potential twixt neutral and earth. Just goes to show

Depends on the supply arrangement and the integrity of the earth
connection(s). If everything's working properly, there shouldn't be -
but aged connections, dodgy wiring practices, bad earths and leaky
appliances may conspire otherwise. Nothing's perfect, and in rural
supplies, it seems to be far from it sometimes.

Floating neutrals are a pain in the arse.
<tingle>

--

Dave

GS 850 x2 / SE 6a
SbS#6 DIAABTCOD#16 APOSTLE#6 FUB#3
FUB KotL OSOS#12? UKRMMA#19 COSOC#10

Grimly Curmudgeon <grimlycurmudgeon683@hotmail.com> wrote in message
<rb3u70148qcrlkgfa5vq11lhk758lapi92@4ax.com>:

>Depends on the supply arrangement and the integrity of the earth
>connection(s). If everything's working properly, there shouldn't be -
>but aged connections, dodgy wiring practices, bad earths and leaky
>appliances may conspire otherwise. Nothing's perfect, and in rural
>supplies, it seems to be far from it sometimes.

That's what I was thinking of posting, but then again I'm not an
electrician and have little experience of such things.

The supply to one of the farm buildings was meant to have a local earth
but the earth spike was out of the ground (had been for years since a
particularly dry summer). When the electricity board man came to move
the meter he went a bit white when he saw that and shut the supply off
until we fixed it.

--
it's better to burn out than fade away

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember deadmail@burnt.org.uk saying
something like:

>The supply to one of the farm buildings was meant to have a local earth
>but the earth spike was out of the ground (had been for years since a
>particularly dry summer). When the electricity board man came to move
>the meter he went a bit white when he saw that and shut the supply off
>until we fixed it.

Heh. Farm electrics are a whole other kettle of eels.

--

Dave

GS 850 x2 / SE 6a
SbS#6 DIAABTCOD#16 APOSTLE#6 FUB#3
FUB KotL OSOS#12? UKRMMA#19 COSOC#10

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

> It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
> drugs began to take hold. I remember Catman
> <catman@cuore-rustsportivo.co.uk> saying something like:
>
>>> Neutral is grounded at the suppliers end, so is effectively at earth
>>> potential in the house.
>>
>>Fascinating. I'm *sure* I remeber being taught that there was always
>>potential twixt neutral and earth. Just goes to show
>
> Depends on the supply arrangement and the integrity of the earth
> connection(s). If everything's working properly, there shouldn't be -
> but aged connections, dodgy wiring practices, bad earths and leaky
> appliances may conspire otherwise. Nothing's perfect, and in rural
> supplies, it seems to be far from it sometimes.
>
> Floating neutrals are a pain in the arse.
> <tingle>
>
Noted for futrue shock avoidance. TYVM
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

Catman wrote:
> Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
>
>> It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
>> drugs began to take hold. I remember joe parkin
>> <joeparkinchinese@btinternet.com> saying something like:
>>
>>>
>>>Wise move, as house leccy is AC the difference between live and nuetral
>>>is not important both will shoot through you into earth.
>>
>> Neutral is grounded at the suppliers end, so is effectively at earth
>> potential in the house.
>
> Fascinating. I'm *sure* I remeber being taught that there was always
> potential twixt neutral and earth. Just goes to show

There will be due to resistance in the wires, but it will be single
digit volts at worst, and won't supply much current.

--
ZX7RR.

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:42:29 -0000, Simian
<Simian@in_valid.semi-evolved.org> wrote:

>Catman wrote:
>> Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
>>
>>> It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
>>> drugs began to take hold. I remember joe parkin
>>> <joeparkinchinese@btinternet.com> saying something like:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Wise move, as house leccy is AC the difference between live and nuetral
>>>>is not important both will shoot through you into earth.
>>>
>>> Neutral is grounded at the suppliers end, so is effectively at earth
>>> potential in the house.
>>
>> Fascinating. I'm *sure* I remeber being taught that there was always
>> potential twixt neutral and earth. Just goes to show
>
>There will be due to resistance in the wires, but it will be single
>digit volts at worst, and won't supply much current.

Nah, like 120v type potential. Still it was a few years ago now.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Catman
<catman@cuore-rustsportivo.co.uk> saying something like:

>>There will be due to resistance in the wires, but it will be single
>>digit volts at worst, and won't supply much current.
>
>Nah, like 120v type potential. Still it was a few years ago now.

Aye, that'd be in a fully-floating neutral installation, but that's got
it's own problems. In some situations, you might have no fault
protection at all, in effect, since there would be no fault path to
ground.

Reminds me of a genset I installed; every time the load (feed mixing and
conveyer motors) went on there was a 'cronk' noise from the alternator.
Turned out the neutral/earth bond was missing from within the control
panel, and when that was replaced everything was hunky-dory.

--

Dave

GS 850 x2 / SE 6a
SbS#6 DIAABTCOD#16 APOSTLE#6 FUB#3
FUB KotL OSOS#12? UKRMMA#19 COSOC#10

In message <6nor701depar09t0ea8pdrmu3als6chbib@4ax.com>, Pip
<pip@ukrm.net> writes

>>We've just put up new lights here, since we're tarting the place up to
>>sell. Last time the OH fitted a light in the living room he discovered
>>that the live wire is black, with a bit of red tape round it. Except
>>he managed to cut the tape off, and wired the light wrong. Every time
>>it was switched off the circuit breaker would go too.
>
>That's the "switched neutral". As he found, you lose the red tape at
>your peril.

Strictly it's not at all neutral. Just that the person who wired it
couldn't be arsed to source twin red cable so they just put a bit of
tape on to indicate that the black is actually a live. So you have a
live and switched live IYSWIM.

And, yes, I used to do all this for a living....
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

	#1
Pip	Re: OT: Decorating On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:10:36 +0100, Halla <halla@drunkenbastards.spam.com> wrote: >We've just put up new lights here, since we're tarting the place up to >sell. Last time the OH fitted a light in the living room he discovered >that the live wire is black, with a bit of red tape round it. Except >he managed to cut the tape off, and wired the light wrong. Every time >it was switched off the circuit breaker would go too. That's the "switched neutral". As he found, you lose the red tape at your peril. -- Pip, Ex - Hairy Gfedcker. RF 900RR, Ruff and Rattly. WS* DFWAG#0 IbW#27* DIAABTCOD#15 GP#0 EKP FUB#4 MKA+E#3 ANORAK#8 MIRTTH#15 BOTAFOT/F#47/34a BONY#13 KotMIB# <space> UKRMRM#14 TWA#2

	#2
Halla	Re: OT: Decorating On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:19:53 +0100, Pip <pip@ukrm.net> blethered: >On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:10:36 +0100, Halla ><halla@drunkenbastards.spam.com> wrote: > >>We've just put up new lights here, since we're tarting the place up to >>sell. Last time the OH fitted a light in the living room he discovered >>that the live wire is black, with a bit of red tape round it. Except >>he managed to cut the tape off, and wired the light wrong. Every time >>it was switched off the circuit breaker would go too. > >That's the "switched neutral". Aha. Thanks, I shall endeavour to retain that information. >As he found, you lose the red tape at >your peril. Yeees. We put another bit of tape on it this time, just in case. The people who built this place appear to have got a cheap job-lot of black wire, and they also seem to have been incapable of marking out a proper angle or straight line.

	#3
jsp	Re: OT: Decorating Halla wrote: > On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:19:53 +0100, Pip <pip@ukrm.net> blethered: > >>On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:10:36 +0100, Halla >><halla@drunkenbastards.spam.com> wrote: >> >>>We've just put up new lights here, since we're tarting the place up to >>>sell. Last time the OH fitted a light in the living room he discovered >>>that the live wire is black, with a bit of red tape round it. Except >>>he managed to cut the tape off, and wired the light wrong. Every time >>>it was switched off the circuit breaker would go too. >> >>That's the "switched neutral". > > Aha. Thanks, I shall endeavour to retain that information. > >>As he found, you lose the red tape at >>your peril. > > Yeees. We put another bit of tape on it this time, just in case. The > people who built this place appear to have got a cheap job-lot of > black wire, and they also seem to have been incapable of marking out a > proper angle or straight line. I think we must have bought our houses from the same bloke. When we first moved in I installed some kitchen units. There is a need to drill holes to fix the cupboards to. One cupboard was to go below an electric socket, so the holes were about a foot either side of it. Guess what. after a moment's drilling 'BANG' and 'FLASH'. The wire from the socket came down in a sort of an arc instead of the expected straight line. This and other interesting things have been discovered since. The wires in our light fitting weren't marked at all. -- John SV650 Black it is and naked

	#4
Catman	Re: OT: Decorating On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:50:51 +0100, Halla <halla@drunkenbastards.spam.com> wrote: >On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:19:53 +0100, Pip <pip@ukrm.net> blethered: > >>On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:10:36 +0100, Halla >><halla@drunkenbastards.spam.com> wrote: >> >>>We've just put up new lights here, since we're tarting the place up to >>>sell. Last time the OH fitted a light in the living room he discovered >>>that the live wire is black, with a bit of red tape round it. Except >>>he managed to cut the tape off, and wired the light wrong. Every time >>>it was switched off the circuit breaker would go too. >> >>That's the "switched neutral". > >Aha. Thanks, I shall endeavour to retain that information. > >>As he found, you lose the red tape at >>your peril. > >Yeees. We put another bit of tape on it this time, just in case. The >people who built this place appear to have got a cheap job-lot of >black wire, ITYF it's meant to be black. ISTBC though -- Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply) Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

	#6
Grimly Curmudgeon	Re: OT: Decorating It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Pip <pip@ukrm.net> saying something like: >That's the "switched neutral". Live, you mean. That's what the red tape's for. -- Dave GS 850 x2 / SE 6a SbS#6 DIAABTCOD#16 APOSTLE#6 FUB#3 FUB KotL OSOS#12? UKRMMA#19 COSOC#10

	#7
Simon Atkinson	Re: OT: Decorating joe parkin said: >Wise move, as house leccy is AC the difference between live and nuetral >is not important both will shoot through you into earth. You really don't know a lot about anything do you? Go away and work out why the neutral is called that and why it wont electrocute you. -- Simes Return address ROT'd...

	#9
Catman	Re: OT: Decorating Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: > It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the > drugs began to take hold. I remember joe parkin > <joeparkinchinese@btinternet.com> saying something like: > >> >>Wise move, as house leccy is AC the difference between live and nuetral >>is not important both will shoot through you into earth. > > Neutral is grounded at the suppliers end, so is effectively at earth > potential in the house. Fascinating. I'm sure I remeber being taught that there was always potential twixt neutral and earth. Just goes to show -- Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3 Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply) Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

	#10
joe parkin	Re: OT: Decorating In article <epst70tgf7tjn86b2hf51o0d818q5e9ocr@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net says... > joe parkin said: > > >Wise move, as house leccy is AC the difference between live and nuetral > >is not important both will shoot through you into earth. > > You really don't know a lot about anything do you? > > Go away and work out why the neutral is called that and why it wont > electrocute you. > Because it is tied to earth back at the leccy station. The nuetral AND the live will kill you if you touch it and earth. I never said nuetral will not electrocute you, I said both will -- Joe Chinese takeaway to reply

	#11
joe parkin	Re: OT: Decorating In article <h9tt70ls953kh7vjk9eivnndqti9r7uth0@4ax.com>, grimlycurmudgeon683@hotmail.com says... > potential in the house. There might be a floating neutral introduced > when a connection goes dodgy, and it can lead to neutral being at mains > potential simply because the neutral lead then becomes part of the live > circuitry until the fault is cleared. > > Your blanket assertion, otoh, is bollocks, although it pays to test > before touching. So you can touch earth and neutral at the same time and not get a shock? -- Joe Chinese takeaway to reply

	#13
joe parkin	Re: OT: Decorating In article <sa1u70tnfkoh9pj9p6j5vtgosl9ogspdr3@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net says... > >Because it is tied to earth back at the leccy station. The nuetral AND > >the live will kill you if you touch it and earth. > >I never said nuetral will not electrocute you, I said both will > > You were wrong. Neutral is at earth potential. Sorry, I am wrong the neutral has no pd between it and earth. The live is alternatively positive and negative relative to the neutral. The supply is 3 phase with single phase going to houses. Noone should touch neutral and rely on not getting a shock. You are correct, but people have to be wary of relying on not getting a shock when touching neutral. -- Joe Chinese takeaway to reply

	#16
gomez	Re: OT: Decorating On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:53:36 +0100, joe parkin <joeparkinchinese@btinternet.com> dropped the following oil-slick: > >So you can touch earth and neutral at the same time and not get a >shock? Isn't that effectively what you do if you just touch neutral without wearing your wellies? -- gomez Honda VFR,KTM 640LC Enduro (not is hot to reply) "The best tool for the job is the hammer thats nearest to hand"

	#17
joe parkin	Re: OT: Decorating In article <ff2u70hdg5f207f0a1mdj82ij4703vhpiu@4ax.com>, adams_gomez@hotmail.com says... > On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:53:36 +0100, joe parkin > <joeparkinchinese@btinternet.com> dropped the following oil-slick: > > > >So you can touch earth and neutral at the same time and not get a > >shock? > > Isn't that effectively what you do if you just touch neutral without > wearing your wellies? > Only if you have a sheep between your wellies -- Joe Chinese takeaway to reply

	#18
joe parkin	Re: OT: Decorating In article <tc2u70p4k26g2qgitaqgtep320op3f9seu@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net says... > Just brush it with the back of your hand - if you get a tingle, it's > live, and you probably have a wiring fault. After numerous shocks I always use a multimeter. -- Joe Chinese takeaway to reply

	#20
joe parkin	Re: OT: Decorating In article <du2u70h9mcvese88dkpm0rg92r04tok34j@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net says... > > >After numerous shocks I always use a multimeter. > > Girl. > With sticky up hair, yes -- Joe Chinese takeaway to reply

	#22
deadmail@burnt.org.uk	Re: OT: Decorating Grimly Curmudgeon <grimlycurmudgeon683@hotmail.com> wrote in message <rb3u70148qcrlkgfa5vq11lhk758lapi92@4ax.com>: >Depends on the supply arrangement and the integrity of the earth >connection(s). If everything's working properly, there shouldn't be - >but aged connections, dodgy wiring practices, bad earths and leaky >appliances may conspire otherwise. Nothing's perfect, and in rural >supplies, it seems to be far from it sometimes. That's what I was thinking of posting, but then again I'm not an electrician and have little experience of such things. The supply to one of the farm buildings was meant to have a local earth but the earth spike was out of the ground (had been for years since a particularly dry summer). When the electricity board man came to move the meter he went a bit white when he saw that and shut the supply off until we fixed it. -- it's better to burn out than fade away

	#25
Simian	Re: OT: Decorating Catman wrote: > Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: > >> It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the >> drugs began to take hold. I remember joe parkin >> <joeparkinchinese@btinternet.com> saying something like: >> >>> >>>Wise move, as house leccy is AC the difference between live and nuetral >>>is not important both will shoot through you into earth. >> >> Neutral is grounded at the suppliers end, so is effectively at earth >> potential in the house. > > Fascinating. I'm sure I remeber being taught that there was always > potential twixt neutral and earth. Just goes to show There will be due to resistance in the wires, but it will be single digit volts at worst, and won't supply much current. -- ZX7RR.

	#26
Catman	Re: OT: Decorating On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:42:29 -0000, Simian <Simian@in_valid.semi-evolved.org> wrote: >Catman wrote: >> Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: >> >>> It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the >>> drugs began to take hold. I remember joe parkin >>> <joeparkinchinese@btinternet.com> saying something like: >>> >>>> >>>>Wise move, as house leccy is AC the difference between live and nuetral >>>>is not important both will shoot through you into earth. >>> >>> Neutral is grounded at the suppliers end, so is effectively at earth >>> potential in the house. >> >> Fascinating. I'm sure I remeber being taught that there was always >> potential twixt neutral and earth. Just goes to show > >There will be due to resistance in the wires, but it will be single >digit volts at worst, and won't supply much current. Nah, like 120v type potential. Still it was a few years ago now. -- Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply) Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

	#28
Steve Fitzgerald	Re: OT: Decorating In message <6nor701depar09t0ea8pdrmu3als6chbib@4ax.com>, Pip <pip@ukrm.net> writes >>We've just put up new lights here, since we're tarting the place up to >>sell. Last time the OH fitted a light in the living room he discovered >>that the live wire is black, with a bit of red tape round it. Except >>he managed to cut the tape off, and wired the light wrong. Every time >>it was switched off the circuit breaker would go too. > >That's the "switched neutral". As he found, you lose the red tape at >your peril. Strictly it's not at all neutral. Just that the person who wired it couldn't be arsed to source twin red cable so they just put a bit of tape on to indicate that the black is actually a live. So you have a live and switched live IYSWIM. And, yes, I used to do all this for a living.... -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email)