Ace

On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 09:31:38 +0100, Champ <news@champ.org.uk> wrote:

>On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 23:31:09 +0100, deadmail@burnt.org.uk wrote:

>>But IIRC after Doctors, Farmers were at the top of the list.
>
>It's accepted fact that "access to method" is a key determinant in
>suicides. That's why medics (inv vets) and farmers usually top the
>lists.

This is probably true.

> It's also why paracetemol is sold in limited size packs.

But this is not really the case. In the UK you'll rarely find any OTC
drugs in large packages. Boots do sell painkillers, including
paracetamol, in bottles of 100, but they're marked 'P' which means it
needs the pharmacist to approve them and occasionally gets moronic
assistants asking stupid questions about why you want so many, if you
ask for two or three bottles.

Thankfully the US is quite happy to sell bottles of 750 in ordinary
supermarkets.

--
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Champ

On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 10:54:34 +0200, Ace <seesig@virgin.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 09:31:38 +0100, Champ <news@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 23:31:09 +0100, deadmail@burnt.org.uk wrote:
>
>>>But IIRC after Doctors, Farmers were at the top of the list.
>>
>>It's accepted fact that "access to method" is a key determinant in
>>suicides. That's why medics (inv vets) and farmers usually top the
>>lists.
>
>This is probably true.
>
>> It's also why paracetemol is sold in limited size packs.
>
>But this is not really the case. In the UK you'll rarely find any OTC
>drugs in large packages.

It certainly is the case. The over-the-counter pack size of
paracetemol was halved recently in the UK for precisely this reason.


--
Champ
I don't know, but I been told, you never slow down, you never get old
ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R600 (race)
neal at champ dot org dot uk

platypus

Ace wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 09:31:38 +0100, Champ <news@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 23:31:09 +0100, deadmail@burnt.org.uk wrote:
>
>>> But IIRC after Doctors, Farmers were at the top of the list.
>>
>> It's accepted fact that "access to method" is a key determinant in
>> suicides. That's why medics (inv vets) and farmers usually top the
>> lists.
>
> This is probably true.
>
>> It's also why paracetemol is sold in limited size packs.
>
> But this is not really the case. In the UK you'll rarely find any OTC
> drugs in large packages. Boots do sell painkillers, including
> paracetamol, in bottles of 100, but they're marked 'P' which means it
> needs the pharmacist to approve them and occasionally gets moronic
> assistants asking stupid questions about why you want so many, if you
> ask for two or three bottles.

In places like Tesco, the POS kit won't allow you to purchase more than 2
packets of paracetamol in a single transaction.

> Thankfully the US is quite happy to sell bottles of 750 in ordinary
> supermarkets.

Probably because they have ready access to many more immediate methods of
suicide. In the US, the gun is a hugely more popular method than any other,
compared with the UK where it's mostly hanging and poisoning.

http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/article...Q20suicide.pdf

--
platypus

somewhere to go for the night

AndrewR

platypus wrote:
> Ace wrote:
>> On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 09:31:38 +0100, Champ <news@champ.org.uk> wrote:

>>> It's also why paracetemol is sold in limited size packs.
>>
>> But this is not really the case. In the UK you'll rarely find any OTC
>> drugs in large packages.

> In places like Tesco, the POS kit won't allow you to purchase more
> than 2 packets of paracetamol in a single transaction.

The law was changed a couple of years ago to prohibiting over the counter
sales of large quantities of paracetamol.

I was listening to a R4 programme about it a while ago and, apparently, it's
had a *huge* impact on the number of paracetamol ODs. Obviously it's easy
to get around by buying from multiple shops or over a period of time, but
people aren't doing that.

Which is nice, because it tends to be a very slow, painful and expensive[1]
way to die. It's apparently common to survive the initial OD, but then to
have to take up an ICU bed for a couple of weeks while your organs shut down
one-by-one.

[1] For the rest of us, obviously.

--
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Ace

On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 10:10:13 +0100, Champ <news@champ.org.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 10:54:34 +0200, Ace <seesig@virgin.net> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 09:31:38 +0100, Champ <news@champ.org.uk> wrote:

>>> It's also why paracetemol is sold in limited size packs.
>>
>>But this is not really the case. In the UK you'll rarely find any OTC
>>drugs in large packages.
>
>It certainly is the case. The over-the-counter pack size of
>paracetemol was halved recently in the UK for precisely this reason.

<googles>

Oh, seems you're right: http://www.news-medical.net/?id=23084

"In the UK, since 1998, pharmacies have not been permitted to sell
packs of paracetamol containing more than 32 tablet, and other shops
cannot sell packs with more than 16 tablets. "

I'm out-of-date. Again.

But interestingly it seems that it may have been based on a flawed
assumption:

"When comparing the trends for paracetamol deaths with other poisoning
or suicide deaths, the researchers did not find any statistical
evidence that the fall in paracetamol deaths was any different to the
overall decline in poisoning or suicide death rates in England and
Wales. "
--
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`\|/`
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Cab

Ace wrote:

> > It's also why paracetemol is sold in limited size packs.
>
> But this is not really the case. In the UK you'll rarely find any OTC
> drugs in large packages. Boots do sell painkillers, including
> paracetamol, in bottles of 100, but they're marked 'P' which means it
> needs the pharmacist to approve them and occasionally gets moronic
> assistants asking stupid questions about why you want so many, if you
> ask for two or three bottles.

Which is a right PITA in France, as you can't buy cheap pain-killers in
Supermarkets and have to pay inflated pharmacy prices. Every time I'm
in the UK, I try to pick up a few packs of Nurofen, Paracetomol, etc.

Unless you get the doctor to prescribe them. Mind you, I'm not sure if
they're reimbursed by the Secu, now I come to think of it.

Don't you get a staff discount?

--
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Ace

On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 11:27:51 +0100, "Cab"
<my_email_address_is_in_my_sig@privacy.net> wrote:


>Which is a right PITA in France, as you can't buy cheap pain-killers in
>Supermarkets and have to pay inflated pharmacy prices.

Err, I suggest that you compare OTC prices. IME they're much cheaper
in France than the UK. Actually, I'm really thinking more about
proper-ish drugs than standard painkillers.

>Every time I'm
>in the UK, I try to pick up a few packs of Nurofen, Paracetomol, etc.

If you can find the cheap supermarket generics then yes, I used to do
the same.

>Unless you get the doctor to prescribe them. Mind you, I'm not sure if
>they're reimbursed by the Secu, now I come to think of it.

I don't have personal experience[1] but I believe they would be if
prescribed, yes.

>Don't you get a staff discount?

Heh. We do have a staff shop, but sadly it doesn't sell proper drugs.

[1] All my recent drugs are Swiss, paid for directly by the company's
accident insurance.

--
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`\\ | //'
`\|/`
`

Cab

Ace wrote:

> > Which is a right PITA in France, as you can't buy cheap
> > pain-killers in Supermarkets and have to pay inflated pharmacy
> > prices.
>
> Err, I suggest that you compare OTC prices. IME they're much cheaper
> in France than the UK. Actually, I'm really thinking more about
> proper-ish drugs than standard painkillers.

Oh, I'll have to have a check. I've not really looked, tbh.

Mind you, one of the things that's (recently?) come in, in France
concerns generic v branded drugs. If people want the branded stuff,
apparently they have to pay the difference between the generic/branded
prices.

BTW, (I'm sure that this has been asked before but here we go again) do
some generic drugs have different effects compared to the original
products?

--
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GSX 1400 - Speedy Zimmerframe.
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Ace

On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 12:15:17 +0100, "Cab"
<my_email_address_is_in_my_sig@privacy.net> wrote:

>Ace wrote:
>
>> > Which is a right PITA in France, as you can't buy cheap
>> > pain-killers in Supermarkets and have to pay inflated pharmacy
>> > prices.
>>
>> Err, I suggest that you compare OTC prices. IME they're much cheaper
>> in France than the UK. Actually, I'm really thinking more about
>> proper-ish drugs than standard painkillers.
>
>Oh, I'll have to have a check. I've not really looked, tbh.

I'm basing it on things like SudaFed, which is about a fiver in the UK
and about three euros over here for the same size pack.

>Mind you, one of the things that's (recently?) come in, in France
>concerns generic v branded drugs. If people want the branded stuff,
>apparently they have to pay the difference between the generic/branded
>prices.

Quite right too.

>BTW, (I'm sure that this has been asked before but here we go again) do
>some generic drugs have different effects compared to the original
>products?

No. If the branded product says it's 200mg ibuprofen (for example) and
the generic one is the same, then they'll be equally as effective.

In very rare cases a branded drug may have a different coating which
affects its absorbtion/tolerance, but if so the generics wouldn't
normally be considered an acceptable alternative, hence the branded
one would be reimbursable under the French system.

--
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`\\ | //'
`\|/`
`

Cab

Ace wrote:

> > BTW, (I'm sure that this has been asked before but here we go
> > again) do some generic drugs have different effects compared to the
> > original products?
>
> No. If the branded product says it's 200mg ibuprofen (for example) and
> the generic one is the same, then they'll be equally as effective.
>
> In very rare cases a branded drug may have a different coating which
> affects its absorbtion/tolerance, but if so the generics wouldn't
> normally be considered an acceptable alternative, hence the branded
> one would be reimbursable under the French system.

So different chemicals wouldn't be used in the composition of generic
drugs (apart from coating)? I ask because my neighbours think that this
is the case, but I'm not sure.

--
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GSX 1400 - Speedy Zimmerframe.
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Ace

On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 12:47:45 +0100, "Cab"
<my_email_address_is_in_my_sig@privacy.net> wrote:

>Ace wrote:
>
>> > BTW, (I'm sure that this has been asked before but here we go
>> > again) do some generic drugs have different effects compared to the
>> > original products?
>>
>> No. If the branded product says it's 200mg ibuprofen (for example) and
>> the generic one is the same, then they'll be equally as effective.
>>
>> In very rare cases a branded drug may have a different coating which
>> affects its absorbtion/tolerance, but if so the generics wouldn't
>> normally be considered an acceptable alternative, hence the branded
>> one would be reimbursable under the French system.
>
>So different chemicals wouldn't be used in the composition of generic
>drugs (apart from coating)? I ask because my neighbours think that this
>is the case, but I'm not sure.

Assuming we're just talking about the active ingredients here, rather
than the rest of the stuff that goes into forming it into a tablet,
then no, there won't be any difference. One man's ibuprofen is
chemically identical to another's.

--
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Mick Whittingham

In article <38odb3tmrfuv8e1qvs99qalu37cse1khq6@4ax.com>, Ace
<seesig@virgin.net> writes
>On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 09:31:38 +0100, Champ <news@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 23:31:09 +0100, deadmail@burnt.org.uk wrote:
>
>>>But IIRC after Doctors, Farmers were at the top of the list.
>>
>>It's accepted fact that "access to method" is a key determinant in
>>suicides. That's why medics (inv vets) and farmers usually top the
>>lists.
>
>This is probably true.
>
>> It's also why paracetemol is sold in limited size packs.
>
>But this is not really the case. In the UK you'll rarely find any OTC
>drugs in large packages. Boots do sell painkillers, including
>paracetamol, in bottles of 100, but they're marked 'P' which means it
>needs the pharmacist to approve them and occasionally gets moronic
>assistants asking stupid questions about why you want so many, if you
>ask for two or three bottles.
>

Me and the other half shopping in Boots. I decide to get some 75mg
aspirin as I'm running low.

I wait at the counter and after 5 minutes of being ignored Jane goes off
to shop else where while I wait. Two assistance are engaged in an in
depth discussion about something. A third is serving a couple in front
of me at the slowest rate possible. This include asking about the
holiday they were to take, she had been there too etc., had they got
this that and something else, etc.

There are now about ten people in the queue behind me.

Jane returns, I'm now 20 minute into the wait and it's my turn.

"A bottle of 75mg aspirin please. No make it two."

"Why do you want two" she asks.

"So I don't have wait twenty minutes for you to serve me again for a
*long* time."

"I'll have to ask the pharmacists permission in that case" she says. And
disappears.

At this point we turned around and walked out. It just wasn't worth the
hassle.
--
Mick Whittingham
'and I will make it a felony to drink small beer.'
William Shakespeare, Henry VI part 2.

Cab

Ace wrote:


> > So different chemicals wouldn't be used in the composition of
> > generic drugs (apart from coating)? I ask because my neighbours
> > think that this is the case, but I'm not sure.
>
> Assuming we're just talking about the active ingredients here, rather
> than the rest of the stuff that goes into forming it into a tablet,
> then no, there won't be any difference. One man's ibuprofen is
> chemically identical to another's.
>

Ta. That's what I thought.

--
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GSX 1400 - Speedy Zimmerframe.
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Badger

Ace wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 12:47:45 +0100, "Cab"
> <my_email_address_is_in_my_sig@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Ace wrote:
>>> In very rare cases a branded drug may have a different coating which
>>> affects its absorbtion/tolerance, but if so the generics wouldn't
>>> normally be considered an acceptable alternative, hence the branded
>>> one would be reimbursable under the French system.
>> So different chemicals wouldn't be used in the composition of generic
>> drugs (apart from coating)? I ask because my neighbours think that this
>> is the case, but I'm not sure.
>
> Assuming we're just talking about the active ingredients here, rather
> than the rest of the stuff that goes into forming it into a tablet,
> then no, there won't be any difference. One man's ibuprofen is
> chemically identical to another's.

So what about this other "stuff" that makes up the tablet? And the
coating? What sorts of differences can they make to the
effectiveness/safety/whatever of different brands of what is ostensibly
the same drug?

--
Rick
NT650V (still)
TWA#11 BREast#6 BOTAFOT#139

Champ

On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 14:22:46 +0100, Badger <spam@housemartin.f9.co.uk>
wrote:

>>>> In very rare cases a branded drug may have a different coating which
>>>> affects its absorbtion/tolerance, but if so the generics wouldn't
>>>> normally be considered an acceptable alternative, hence the branded
>>>> one would be reimbursable under the French system.
>>> So different chemicals wouldn't be used in the composition of generic
>>> drugs (apart from coating)? I ask because my neighbours think that this
>>> is the case, but I'm not sure.
>>
>> Assuming we're just talking about the active ingredients here, rather
>> than the rest of the stuff that goes into forming it into a tablet,
>> then no, there won't be any difference. One man's ibuprofen is
>> chemically identical to another's.
>
>So what about this other "stuff" that makes up the tablet? And the
>coating? What sorts of differences can they make to the
>effectiveness/safety/whatever of different brands of what is ostensibly
>the same drug?

I'm no pharma chemist, but I always thought that the vast majority of
a tablet was inactive gunk, which just had to be there in order for it
to be big enough to take as a tablet, iyswim.
--
Champ
I don't know, but I been told, you never slow down, you never get old
ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R600 (race)
neal at champ dot org dot uk

Ace

On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 14:22:46 +0100, Badger <spam@housemartin.f9.co.uk>
wrote:

>Ace wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 12:47:45 +0100, "Cab"
>> <my_email_address_is_in_my_sig@privacy.net> wrote:

>>> So different chemicals wouldn't be used in the composition of generic
>>> drugs (apart from coating)? I ask because my neighbours think that this
>>> is the case, but I'm not sure.
>>
>> Assuming we're just talking about the active ingredients here, rather
>> than the rest of the stuff that goes into forming it into a tablet,
>> then no, there won't be any difference. One man's ibuprofen is
>> chemically identical to another's.
>
>So what about this other "stuff" that makes up the tablet?

As Champ rightly says, it's all the inactive ingredients which make up
a tablet. By and large, however, they're not there to bulk it up, but
to form a nice firm whole. Many chemicals won't naturally exist in
solid form, and even those that do won't necessarily be resistant to
bashing and banging, let alone getting wet in the mouth.

>And the coating? What sorts of differences can they make to the
>effectiveness/safety/whatever of different brands of what is ostensibly
>the same drug?

None to different brands of the same, as I explained to Cab. But
different formualtions of the same compound may include, for example,
a coating to make a tablet lett likely to dissolve immediately in the
stomach, when it will be more effective and/or less irritant in the
intestines. Similarly, slow-acting forms of many drugs (I've got some
600mg "Brufen Retard" in front of me as I speak) may be formed into
small coated lumps before being packed together into a single tablet.
The coating can be varied to produce a more gradually disolving pill,
ideal for stomach irritants like this, or to prolong the effect, as
with some slow-acting morphine I've got next door.

But as I said, these will be recognised as a different formulation, so
any generic version of the original will not be equivalent. This can
be used to extend the life of a product - one notable example was
Glaxo's Zantac, for gastric ulcers and similar, which was due to go
off-patent in the late 1990s. At this point it became legal for anyone
to manufacture and sell generic versions of it, which would, of
course, dramatically hit sales.

By that time, however, Glaxo had, developed a new coating which both
significantly increased its tolerability - an important aspect for
stomach problems - and allowed lower doses to be as effective. They
were then able to extend the patent life by having the new formulation
licensed as a new drug.

Of course, the cynics might like to suggest that they had the coating
well in advance but saved it until they needed it. I wouldn't know
anythig about that.

--
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`\\ | //'
`\|/`
`

ginge

Ace wrote:
> But as I said, these will be recognised as a different formulation, so
> any generic version of the original will not be equivalent. This can
> be used to extend the life of a product - one notable example was
> Glaxo's Zantac, for gastric ulcers and similar, which was due to go
> off-patent in the late 1990s. At this point it became legal for anyone
> to manufacture and sell generic versions of it, which would, of
> course, dramatically hit sales.
>
> By that time, however, Glaxo had, developed a new coating which both
> significantly increased its tolerability - an important aspect for
> stomach problems - and allowed lower doses to be as effective. They
> were then able to extend the patent life by having the new formulation
> licensed as a new drug.

The old version did still go generic though didn't it? And, I'd imagine
that has still hit sales.

AFAIK generic Ranitidine (Zantac) is pretty much the default thing NHS
doctors prescribe for that type of thing these days.

Badger

Ace wrote:
> By that time, however, Glaxo had, developed a new coating which both
> significantly increased its tolerability - an important aspect for
> stomach problems - and allowed lower doses to be as effective. They
> were then able to extend the patent life by having the new formulation
> licensed as a new drug.
>
> Of course, the cynics might like to suggest that they had the coating
> well in advance but saved it until they needed it. I wouldn't know
> anythig about that.

Heh!

--
Rick
NT650V (still)
TWA#11 BREast#6 BOTAFOT#139

Grimly Curmudgeon

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Ace <seesig@virgin.net> saying
something like:

>>And the coating? What sorts of differences can they make to the
>>effectiveness/safety/whatever of different brands of what is ostensibly
>>the same drug?
>
>None to different brands of the same, as I explained to Cab. But
>different formualtions of the same compound may include, for example,
>a coating to make a tablet lett likely to dissolve immediately in the
>stomach, when it will be more effective and/or less irritant in the
>intestines.

It is a fact, subjective though it may be, that some generics have
different side-effects to the originals. Whether this is due to coatings
or a variation of the basic active formulation isn't important - what is
important is that if one is taking a branded drug and then shunted onto
a generic with unpleasant side-effects the difference is noticeable.
Cheap drugs are fine, but the branded ones are often preferable.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

Teach a man to fish and he and his pikey mates will have the
river cleaned out in a day.

Ace

On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 15:57:05 +0100, ginge
<the.gingeREMOVE@THISgmail.com> wrote:

>Ace wrote:
>> But as I said, these will be recognised as a different formulation, so
>> any generic version of the original will not be equivalent. This can
>> be used to extend the life of a product - one notable example was
>> Glaxo's Zantac, for gastric ulcers and similar, which was due to go
>> off-patent in the late 1990s. At this point it became legal for anyone
>> to manufacture and sell generic versions of it, which would, of
>> course, dramatically hit sales.
>>
>> By that time, however, Glaxo had, developed a new coating which both
>> significantly increased its tolerability - an important aspect for
>> stomach problems - and allowed lower doses to be as effective. They
>> were then able to extend the patent life by having the new formulation
>> licensed as a new drug.
>
>The old version did still go generic though didn't it?

Generic versions of the basic molecule were not stopped by the new
coating - they just couldn't use it, whereas the coated version was
granted, IIRC, something like ten years additional patent life;
admittedly for a much smaller market segment, where the coating was
beneficial.

>And, I'd imagine that has still hit sales.

Well yes, but it's now largely been superceded anyway. But in any
event, it went OTC (as a treatment for heartburn) with 'Zantac 75' in
about 1997, and in that market, more so even than with prescription
drugs, first-to-market is a massive advantage, usually retaining
25-30% of the market even with multiple generic/competitor drugs.

It's why we often halt developement of a drug quite early, even if we
know it's likely to work and that there's a big market for it - if
we're 2nd (or later) to market we may be unable to recoup the
development costs.

>AFAIK generic Ranitidine (Zantac) is pretty much the default thing NHS
>doctors prescribe for that type of thing these days.

It wouldn't surprise me, but the more developed parts of the world
have now mainly moved on to a new class of drugs called proton pump
inhibitors.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ DS#8 BOTAFOT#3 SbS#2 UKRMMA#13 DFV#8 SKA#2 IBB#10
`\\ | //'
`\|/`
`

Ace

On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 17:18:06 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
<grimly4REMOVE@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:

>We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
>drugs began to take hold. I remember Ace <seesig@virgin.net> saying
>something like:
>
>>>And the coating? What sorts of differences can they make to the
>>>effectiveness/safety/whatever of different brands of what is ostensibly
>>>the same drug?
>>
>>None to different brands of the same, as I explained to Cab. But
>>different formualtions of the same compound may include, for example,
>>a coating to make a tablet lett likely to dissolve immediately in the
>>stomach, when it will be more effective and/or less irritant in the
>>intestines.
>
>It is a fact, subjective though it may be,

How can it be both subjective and a fact?

>that some generics have different side-effects to the originals.

Can you find a reference for this? I've never heard that this is the
case.

>Cheap drugs are fine, but the branded ones are often preferable.

Well I'd love to be able to support that, as employee and shareholder,
but as I said, I've never seen any evidence to bacl it up.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ DS#8 BOTAFOT#3 SbS#2 UKRMMA#13 DFV#8 SKA#2 IBB#10
`\\ | //'
`\|/`
`

DR

On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 19:41:27 +0200, Ace <seesig@virgin.net> is alleged
to have written:

>It's why we often halt developement of a drug quite early, even if we
>know it's likely to work and that there's a big market for it - if
>we're 2nd (or later) to market we may be unable to recoup the
>development costs.

Heaven forbid that a pharmaceuticals company might actually make
someone's life better without making a profit.

Yes, I know how business works. I don't have to like it.


--
Darren
GSF1200N K3

raden

In message <l3peb3h19k3u0qal0pbfeobt79jl0retp0@4ax.com>, DR
<bluebandit@talktalk.net.invalid> writes
>On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 19:41:27 +0200, Ace <seesig@virgin.net> is alleged
>to have written:
>
>>It's why we often halt developement of a drug quite early, even if we
>>know it's likely to work and that there's a big market for it - if
>>we're 2nd (or later) to market we may be unable to recoup the
>>development costs.
>
>Heaven forbid that a pharmaceuticals company might actually make
>someone's life better without making a profit.
>
>Yes, I know how business works. I don't have to like it.
>
I bet you'll be happy to know, then, that the gubmint is going to buy
thousands of F&M vaccinations from the Pirbright centre where they think
the outbreak originated

--
geoff

Grimly Curmudgeon

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Ace <seesig@virgin.net> saying
something like:

>>It is a fact, subjective though it may be,
>
>How can it be both subjective and a fact?

Personally speaking, it is a fact.

>>that some generics have different side-effects to the originals.
>
>Can you find a reference for this? I've never heard that this is the
>case.

Ask around, you'll find thousands of people who know it to be true. Not
everything can be measured.

>>Cheap drugs are fine, but the branded ones are often preferable.
>
>Well I'd love to be able to support that, as employee and shareholder,
>but as I said, I've never seen any evidence to bacl it up.

As I say, it happens, beyond all doubt. Most of the time the
side-effects aren't life-threatening, just irritating.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

Teach a man to fish and he and his pikey mates will have the
river cleaned out in a day.

DR

On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 21:23:19 GMT, raden <raden@kateda.org> is alleged
to have written:

>In message <l3peb3h19k3u0qal0pbfeobt79jl0retp0@4ax.com>, DR
><bluebandit@talktalk.net.invalid> writes
>>On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 19:41:27 +0200, Ace <seesig@virgin.net> is alleged
>>to have written:
>>
>>>It's why we often halt developement of a drug quite early, even if we
>>>know it's likely to work and that there's a big market for it - if
>>>we're 2nd (or later) to market we may be unable to recoup the
>>>development costs.
>>
>>Heaven forbid that a pharmaceuticals company might actually make
>>someone's life better without making a profit.
>>
>>Yes, I know how business works. I don't have to like it.
>>
>I bet you'll be happy to know, then, that the gubmint is going to buy
>thousands of F&M vaccinations from the Pirbright centre where they think
>the outbreak originated

It would be easy to be cynical; I'd go for Hanlon's Razor in this
case. If it's proven that Pirbright is responsible, then emergency
powers should be used to take what's needed from them.


--
Darren
GSF1200N K3

Champ

On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 22:33:31 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
<grimly4REMOVE@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:

>Not everything can be measured.

In the case of drug manufacturer, how would you expect a pharma
company to respond to an effect that "can't be measured"?
--
Champ

ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R 600 racer
My advice as your attorney is to buy a motorcycle
To email me, neal at my domain should work.

Bear

In article <2bneb397mjl7h17t7em2p60p12lh377pn7@4ax.com>, Ace says...
> On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 17:18:06 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
> <grimly4REMOVE@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:

> >that some generics have different side-effects to the originals.
>
> Can you find a reference for this? I've never heard that this is the
> case.
>
> >Cheap drugs are fine, but the branded ones are often preferable.
>
> Well I'd love to be able to support that, as employee and shareholder,
> but as I said, I've never seen any evidence to bacl it up.

We've done this before. You never believe it, but those of us who use
said products know *precisely* what we mean.

Eh Pip?
--
Bear

Grimly Curmudgeon

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> saying
something like:

>On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 22:33:31 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
><grimly4REMOVE@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Not everything can be measured.
>
>In the case of drug manufacturer, how would you expect a pharma
>company to respond to an effect that "can't be measured"?

I don't, in this example. The generics aren't unsafe, and most people
who take them wouldn't notice a difference anyway. It's just that some
(in total, a lot of) people find there is a difference - either in
efficacy or one or two minor side-effects that didn't show up with the
branded med.

You should read a pharma listing - there's an amazing amount of
side-effects listed for just about every drug under the sun, so it's
hardly surprising that a slight difference in the formulation or coating
or etc will affect some consumers.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

Teach a man to fish and he and his pikey mates will have the
river cleaned out in a day.

AndrewR

DR wrote:

> Having given the matter some thought, I've nothing further to say.

That should be carved in stone over the gateway to Usenet.

--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1, Aprilia RSV-1000R (10th August), Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, DS#5, COSOC# Suspended, KotTFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

Mick Whittingham

In article <vgsdb3tdbf6ncofb6vu2icj6mtojt0k2q9@4ax.com>, Ace
<seesig@virgin.net> writes
>On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 10:10:13 +0100, Champ <news@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 10:54:34 +0200, Ace <seesig@virgin.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 09:31:38 +0100, Champ <news@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>>> It's also why paracetemol is sold in limited size packs.
>>>
>>>But this is not really the case. In the UK you'll rarely find any OTC
>>>drugs in large packages.
>>
>>It certainly is the case. The over-the-counter pack size of
>>paracetemol was halved recently in the UK for precisely this reason.
>
><googles>
>
>Oh, seems you're right: http://www.news-medical.net/?id=23084
>
>"In the UK, since 1998, pharmacies have not been permitted to sell
>packs of paracetamol containing more than 32 tablet, and other shops
>cannot sell packs with more than 16 tablets. "
>

Go to the Cash and Carry.
Get a tray (or two) of 48 packs of 16. No problem.
>

--
Mick Whittingham
'and I will make it a felony to drink small beer.'
William Shakespeare, Henry VI part 2.

Mick Whittingham

In article <lalaw44-7F933C.15080206082007@newsread.ncl.ac.uk>, jal
<lalaw44@hotmail.com> writes
>In article <13be7v8ima7jef@corp.supernews.com>,
> Badger <spam@housemartin.f9.co.uk> wrote:
>


>
>And re:
>
>Mick Whittingham's tale of waiting for aspirin in Boots: well round here
>(North East) they used to be "really strict" as you describe, although
>I've found recently they seem to have backed off (perhaps as a result
>of seemingly decent coves like you and me COMPLETELY LOSING IT when some
>dumbo counter assistant trots out the latest H&S policy

Boots again. Toping up the medical kit we always take with us when going
abroad. Canistan HC is a great cure all for rashes and scratches got
while diving.

Two tubes of Canistan HC please.

Where are you going to apply the cream?

I don't know yet.

Why don't you, what condition will it be for?

I don't know yet.

Why do you need two tubes?

In case I run out!


OR

Asking for cures for constipation and the sh*ts at the same time.
(Toping up the medical kit again)

OR

Have you any large tubs of KY jelly please or an 'own brand' will do as
long as it's water soluble and doesn't rot rubber or neoprene. A big
optimistic smile at this point really has them worried and rushing for
the pharmacist.

Used for getting into your dry suit................'onest!

--
Mick Whittingham
'and I will make it a felony to drink small beer.'
William Shakespeare, Henry VI part 2.