Ducati ST2

Always fancied a Ducati ST - and looking at current ST prices, they're
incredibly good value.

However, I have one doubt in my mind about them - although the engine is
what appears to be a 2v lump, they're also water-cooled.

Are they as simple to maintain as the 750 / 900SS lumps, or are they
verging on 916 complexity?

--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) wrote in news:1i0ycod.1kcdmnjs9pk9N%
steve@italiancar.co.uk:

> Always fancied a Ducati ST - and looking at current ST prices, they're
> incredibly good value.
>
> However, I have one doubt in my mind about them - although the engine is
> what appears to be a 2v lump, they're also water-cooled.
>
> Are they as simple to maintain as the 750 / 900SS lumps, or are they
> verging on 916 complexity?
>

Based on your useage why not just get it dealer serviced? It's only going
to be a once a year affair.

I could easily do the maintenance on the R-GS. It's piss easy but a) I'm
lazy b) a 12k "main" service cost £150 at an independent specialist and c)
I can go shopping[1] in the cosmopolitan metropolis that is Cardiff whilst
he does it

[1] Greggs steak slices are fab and I can stock up on disposable Primark T-
shirts for work

--
wessie at tesco dot net

BMW R1150GS

SteveH <steve@italiancar.co.uk> wrote:

> Always fancied a Ducati ST - and looking at current ST prices, they're
> incredibly good value.
>
> However, I have one doubt in my mind about them - although the engine is
> what appears to be a 2v lump, they're also water-cooled.
>
> Are they as simple to maintain as the 750 / 900SS lumps, or are they
> verging on 916 complexity?

The engine is basically the old SOHC two-valve head jobbie, but with a
water jacket. So very simple to maintain. The only prob is that they're
the 944 capacity, so ultimately not as solid as the 750. And they never
watercooled the 750.

--
BMW K1100LT 750SS CB400F CD250 SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....

The Older Gentleman <chateau.murray.takethisout@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

> SteveH <steve@italiancar.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Always fancied a Ducati ST - and looking at current ST prices, they're
> > incredibly good value.
> >
> > However, I have one doubt in my mind about them - although the engine is
> > what appears to be a 2v lump, they're also water-cooled.
> >
> > Are they as simple to maintain as the 750 / 900SS lumps, or are they
> > verging on 916 complexity?
>
> The engine is basically the old SOHC two-valve head jobbie, but with a
> water jacket. So very simple to maintain. The only prob is that they're
> the 944 capacity, so ultimately not as solid as the 750. And they never
> watercooled the 750.

Hmmmm, they're very temptingly cheap - especially as I'd get a Ducati
and Katie would still get a comfy pillion seat.
--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

SteveH wrote:
> The Older Gentleman <chateau.murray.takethisout@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>> SteveH <steve@italiancar.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Always fancied a Ducati ST - and looking at current ST prices,
>>> they're incredibly good value.
>>>
>>> However, I have one doubt in my mind about them - although the
>>> engine is what appears to be a 2v lump, they're also water-cooled.
>>>
>>> Are they as simple to maintain as the 750 / 900SS lumps, or are they
>>> verging on 916 complexity?
>>
>> The engine is basically the old SOHC two-valve head jobbie, but with
>> a water jacket. So very simple to maintain. The only prob is that
>> they're the 944 capacity, so ultimately not as solid as the 750. And
>> they never watercooled the 750.
>
> Hmmmm, they're very temptingly cheap - especially as I'd get a Ducati
> and Katie would still get a comfy pillion seat.

Yes but an ST4S is such a superior bike why short change yourself.

--
Hog
'03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400

Hog <hogSPAM@freenetCHIPS.co.uk> wrote:

> > Hmmmm, they're very temptingly cheap - especially as I'd get a Ducati
> > and Katie would still get a comfy pillion seat.
>
> Yes but an ST4S is such a superior bike why short change yourself.

I'm scared of owning something with a 916 derived engine. It would
appear to be financial suicide.
--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

SteveH wrote:
> Hog <hogSPAM@freenetCHIPS.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > Hmmmm, they're very temptingly cheap - especially as I'd get a Ducati
> > > and Katie would still get a comfy pillion seat.
> >
> > Yes but an ST4S is such a superior bike why short change yourself.
>
> I'm scared of owning something with a 916 derived engine. It would
> appear to be financial suicide.

If a few hundred quid once a year is financial suicide, I'd suggest
you've probably got more significant worries than what bike to buy.

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 14:13:40 +0100, steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH)
wrote:

>Hog <hogSPAM@freenetCHIPS.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> > Hmmmm, they're very temptingly cheap - especially as I'd get a Ducati
>> > and Katie would still get a comfy pillion seat.
>>
>> Yes but an ST4S is such a superior bike why short change yourself.
>
>I'm scared of owning something with a 916 derived engine. It would
>appear to be financial suicide.

You do come out with some crap sometimes.
--
Champ
ZX10R
GPz750turbo
neal at champ dot org dot uk

On Jul 9, 2:43 pm, Champ <n...@champ.org.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 14:13:40 +0100, s...@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH)
> wrote:

> >I'm scared of owning something with a 916 derived engine. It would
> >appear to be financial suicide.
>
> You do come out with some crap sometimes.

what do you mean "sometimes"?

--
d.

ginge <the.gingeREMOVE@THISgmail.com> wrote:

> SteveH wrote:
> > Hog <hogSPAM@freenetCHIPS.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > > Hmmmm, they're very temptingly cheap - especially as I'd get a Ducati
> > > > and Katie would still get a comfy pillion seat.
> > >
> > > Yes but an ST4S is such a superior bike why short change yourself.
> >
> > I'm scared of owning something with a 916 derived engine. It would
> > appear to be financial suicide.
>
> If a few hundred quid once a year is financial suicide, I'd suggest
> you've probably got more significant worries than what bike to buy.

Figure of speech.

I don't want a bike that costs the thick end of a grand in servicing
every 2 years. (916 engined bikes are generally quoted as £500-£600 for
a 12k service / £300-£400 for a 6k service) - I'm not likely to want to
service one of those at home.
--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 14:57:31 +0100, steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH)
wrote:

>> > I'm scared of owning something with a 916 derived engine. It would
>> > appear to be financial suicide.
>>
>> If a few hundred quid once a year is financial suicide, I'd suggest
>> you've probably got more significant worries than what bike to buy.
>
>Figure of speech.
>
>I don't want a bike that costs the thick end of a grand in servicing
>every 2 years. (916 engined bikes are generally quoted as £500-£600 for
>a 12k service / £300-£400 for a 6k service) - I'm not likely to want to
>service one of those at home.

Surely thats only a couple of hundred quid a year for your mileage,
tho.
--
Champ
ZX10R
GPz750turbo
neal at champ dot org dot uk

Champ <news@champ.org.uk> wrote:

> >> If a few hundred quid once a year is financial suicide, I'd suggest
> >> you've probably got more significant worries than what bike to buy.
> >
> >Figure of speech.
> >
> >I don't want a bike that costs the thick end of a grand in servicing
> >every 2 years. (916 engined bikes are generally quoted as £500-£600 for
> >a 12k service / £300-£400 for a 6k service) - I'm not likely to want to
> >service one of those at home.
>
> Surely thats only a couple of hundred quid a year for your mileage,
> tho.

6k or 12 months, 12k or 24 months.

Unless you really feel lucky with cambelts. I don't.

Which is why I fancied an ST2 - I know I'm perfectly capable of looking
after one of those myself.
--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 15:22:54 +0100, steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH)
wrote:

>'financial suicide' was a figure of speech to express the fact that the
>916 engined bikes cost one hell of a lot more to keep serviced than your
>average Jap bike.

The sort of figure of speech that would only be used by a raving drama
queen, then.
--
Champ
ZX10R
GPz750turbo
neal at champ dot org dot uk

Champ <news@champ.org.uk> wrote:

> On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 15:22:54 +0100, steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH)
> wrote:
>
> >'financial suicide' was a figure of speech to express the fact that the
> >916 engined bikes cost one hell of a lot more to keep serviced than your
> >average Jap bike.
>
> The sort of figure of speech that would only be used by a raving drama
> queen, then.

*shrugs*

It's all a personal perception.
--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) writes:

> 'financial suicide' was a figure of speech to express the fact that the
> 916 engined bikes cost one hell of a lot more to keep serviced than your
> average Jap bike.

Nah, 'financial suicide' would probably be if I tried to run one on my
daily commute, 'cos that would mean I'd have to get it serviced every
three months.

If you can blow that kind of cash on a couple of track days then you
should be able to spend that on your bike during the course of a
year. And if that seems too pricey, sir may want to investigate the
possibilities of getting a C90 instead.

--
Morini Corsaro 125 | CB450K4 | XL250 Motosport x2 | 900SSD | VFR750
Triumph T-Bird chop | K1100LT | CB400/4 BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10
The UKRM FAQ: http://www.ukrm.net/faq/index.html
"Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar

In article <82k5t9abeq.fsf@nermal.unix-consult.com>, Timo Geusch wrote:
> steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) writes:
>
>> 'financial suicide' was a figure of speech to express the fact that the
>> 916 engined bikes cost one hell of a lot more to keep serviced than your
>> average Jap bike.
>
> Nah, 'financial suicide' would probably be if I tried to run one on my
> daily commute, 'cos that would mean I'd have to get it serviced every
> three months.

My oldest brother did that for about 9 months - commuted from Tunbridge
Wells to Stevenage on a mid-size Honda (can't remember which one - it
was the late 80's).

It died finally and terminally after 9 months. It was being serviced
about every month.. And from memory it died fairly messily.

> possibilities of getting a C90 instead.

Or a pushbike.

Phil.

--
Phil Launchbury, IT PHB
'I'm training the bats that live in my cube
to juggle mushrooms'

Phil Launchbury <phill@launchbury.org.uk> writes:

> In article <82k5t9abeq.fsf@nermal.unix-consult.com>, Timo Geusch wrote:
>> steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) writes:
>>
>>> 'financial suicide' was a figure of speech to express the fact that the
>>> 916 engined bikes cost one hell of a lot more to keep serviced than your
>>> average Jap bike.
>>
>> Nah, 'financial suicide' would probably be if I tried to run one on my
>> daily commute, 'cos that would mean I'd have to get it serviced every
>> three months.
>
> My oldest brother did that for about 9 months - commuted from Tunbridge
> Wells to Stevenage on a mid-size Honda (can't remember which one - it
> was the late 80's).

Hmm, that's only about 20 miles more in each direction... Mind you, the
additional wear you get from this kind of mileage is quite noticeable.

>> possibilities of getting a C90 instead.
>
> Or a pushbike.

There is that.

--
Morini Corsaro 125 | CB450K4 | XL250 Motosport x2 | 900SSD | VFR750
Triumph T-Bird chop | K1100LT | CB400/4 BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10
The UKRM FAQ: http://www.ukrm.net/faq/index.html
"Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 15:48:18 +0100, Phil Launchbury
<phill@launchbury.org.uk> wrote:

>> Nah, 'financial suicide' would probably be if I tried to run one on my
>> daily commute, 'cos that would mean I'd have to get it serviced every
>> three months.
>
>My oldest brother did that for about 9 months - commuted from Tunbridge
>Wells to Stevenage on a mid-size Honda (can't remember which one - it
>was the late 80's).
>
>It died finally and terminally after 9 months. It was being serviced
>about every month.. And from memory it died fairly messily.

One of the Team Ixie guys (who's name I forget) commuted a similar
distance if not more on an R1. The engine got replaced at about 70k
miles, and it finally got stolen at 98k miles. IIRC.
--
Champ
ZX10R
GPz750turbo
neal at champ dot org dot uk

Champ wrote:

> One of the Team Ixie guys (who's name I forget) commuted a similar
> distance if not more on an R1. The engine got replaced at about 70k
> miles, and it finally got stolen at 98k miles. IIRC.

ISTR that was posted on here, sometime back.

--
Chris

Timo Geusch wrote:
> steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) writes:
>
>> 'financial suicide' was a figure of speech to express the fact that
>> the 916 engined bikes cost one hell of a lot more to keep serviced
>> than your average Jap bike.
>
> Nah, 'financial suicide' would probably be if I tried to run one on my
> daily commute, 'cos that would mean I'd have to get it serviced every
> three months.
>
> If you can blow that kind of cash on a couple of track days then you
> should be able to spend that on your bike during the course of a
> year. And if that seems too pricey, sir may want to investigate the
> possibilities of getting a C90 instead.

Well lets look at the specifics. I used a 996 to commute to London from
Oxford. Note the ST4 is the 916, the ST4S is the 996. The latter is a much
better unit.

Look at the actual service prices for starters, not as great a difference as
one might think.
http://www.ducati-john.co.uk/routine...-servicing.htm

Belts, of which much is made. For peace of mind change every 6000 miles if
you will, I think factory is 12000 though. Buy a little tool perhaps
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ducat...QQcmdZViewItem
and do it yourself. Belts are only £26 each or thereabouts.

Oil changes, filters etc. you would do yourself.

What does that leave? valve clearances. Get a man to do it every 12000
miles, checking the rocker faces at the same time.

--
Hog
'03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400

Hog <hogSPAM@freenetCHIPS.co.uk> wrote:

> > If you can blow that kind of cash on a couple of track days then you
> > should be able to spend that on your bike during the course of a
> > year. And if that seems too pricey, sir may want to investigate the
> > possibilities of getting a C90 instead.
>
> Well lets look at the specifics. I used a 996 to commute to London from
> Oxford. Note the ST4 is the 916, the ST4S is the 996. The latter is a much
> better unit.
>
> Look at the actual service prices for starters, not as great a difference as
> one might think.
> http://www.ducati-john.co.uk/routine...-servicing.htm

That's assuming that, if I got a 2-valve engine, I'd actually pay for
servicing on it.

> Belts, of which much is made. For peace of mind change every 6000 miles if
> you will, I think factory is 12000 though. Buy a little tool perhaps

> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ducat...-holding-tool-
> FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ290136019770QQcmdZViewItem
> and do it yourself. Belts are only £26 each or thereabouts.
>
> Oil changes, filters etc. you would do yourself.
>
> What does that leave? valve clearances. Get a man to do it every 12000
> miles, checking the rocker faces at the same time.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I'm just not all that confident in my
abilities to look after the 4-valve engines, but I'm convinced I could
look after a 2-valve engine.

Maybe it's just a confidence thing, but I've never liked doing belts on
twin-cam engines.
--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

On 9 Jul 2007 15:39:55 GMT, "CT" <me@christrollen.co.uk> wrote:

>Champ wrote:
>
>> One of the Team Ixie guys (who's name I forget) commuted a similar
>> distance if not more on an R1. The engine got replaced at about 70k
>> miles, and it finally got stolen at 98k miles. IIRC.
>
>ISTR that was posted on here, sometime back.

er, yes, that's where I remember it from.
--
Champ
ZX10R
GPz750turbo
neal at champ dot org dot uk

In article <4jk49316d95c92lvg17st2rbf6uaisv7hm@4ax.com>, Champ
<news@champ.org.uk> writes
>On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 15:48:18 +0100, Phil Launchbury
><phill@launchbury.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>> Nah, 'financial suicide' would probably be if I tried to run one on my
>>> daily commute, 'cos that would mean I'd have to get it serviced every
>>> three months.
>>
>>My oldest brother did that for about 9 months - commuted from Tunbridge
>>Wells to Stevenage on a mid-size Honda (can't remember which one - it
>>was the late 80's).
>>
>>It died finally and terminally after 9 months. It was being serviced
>>about every month.. And from memory it died fairly messily.
>
>One of the Team Ixie guys (who's name I forget) commuted a similar
>distance if not more on an R1. The engine got replaced at about 70k
>miles, and it finally got stolen at 98k miles. IIRC.

I rode a GPZ550 into the ground commuting 206 miles a day on a return
trip to Norwich and back plus weekend mileage. It had been couriered
before I got it, I was quite impressed that it lasted me nearly 4 months
before the top end finally gave out.

--
steve auvache
A Bloo one with built in safety features

steve auvache wrote:
> In article <4jk49316d95c92lvg17st2rbf6uaisv7hm@4ax.com>, Champ

>> One of the Team Ixie guys (who's name I forget) commuted a similar
>> distance if not more on an R1. The engine got replaced at about 70k
>> miles, and it finally got stolen at 98k miles. IIRC.
>
> I rode a GPZ550 into the ground commuting 206 miles a day on a return
> trip to Norwich and back plus weekend mileage. It had been couriered
> before I got it, I was quite impressed that it lasted me nearly 4
> months before the top end finally gave out.

Hmm people on pre 1993 K's could do reliably do 150K with sensible
servicing. Boxers 100K. That was where the BMW reputation came from, sadly
lost. I've heard of some VF750 generations doing the same.

--
Hog
'03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400

Champ <news@champ.org.uk> wrote:

> On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 14:13:40 +0100, steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH)
> wrote:
>
> >Hog <hogSPAM@freenetCHIPS.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> > Hmmmm, they're very temptingly cheap - especially as I'd get a Ducati
> >> > and Katie would still get a comfy pillion seat.
> >>
> >> Yes but an ST4S is such a superior bike why short change yourself.
> >
> >I'm scared of owning something with a 916 derived engine. It would
> >appear to be financial suicide.
>
> You do come out with some crap sometimes.

It wouldn't be the maintenance costs that would worry me: it would be
the nagging doubt that the 916/996 lump simply isn't as solid as some of
the old two-valvers, and that any repair work will come into the
'ferociously expensive' category.

--
BMW K1100LT 750SS CB400F CD250 SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....

Hog <hogSPAM@freenetCHIPS.co.uk> wrote:

> What does that leave? valve clearances. Get a man to do it every 12000
> miles, checking the rocker faces at the same time.

This is the expensive bit, mind - especially if the rocker faces have
worn out (though I thought that was an issue reserved for the 748?)

--
BMW K1100LT 750SS CB400F CD250 SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:15:51 -0000, darsy <darsyx@sticky.co.uk> wrote:

snip>

>500 quid / year is considerably less than what I spend on /lunch/

It's less than I spend on stuff for a packed lunch and that's without
the added cost of toasted bacon sandwiches.

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:41:25 +0100, "Hog" <hogSPAM@freenetCHIPS.co.uk>
wrote:

snip>

>Look at the actual service prices for starters, not as great a difference as
>one might think.
>http://www.ducati-john.co.uk/routine...-servicing.htm
>
>Belts, of which much is made. For peace of mind change every 6000 miles if
>you will, I think factory is 12000 though. Buy a little tool perhaps
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ducat...QQcmdZViewItem
>and do it yourself. Belts are only £26 each or thereabouts.
>
I had kevlar belts put in my 748 because they're supposed to be
capable of doing the 10k miles without any need for concern and they
certainly weren't double the price of standard ones.

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 15:13:41 +0100, steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH)
wrote:

>6k or 12 months, 12k or 24 months.
>
>Unless you really feel lucky with cambelts. I don't.

You wanna fit GL1500 cambelts, you do - 100,000 mile service item.
£38 the pair.
--
| ___ Salad Dodger
|/ \
_/_____\_ GL1500SEV/CBR1100XXX/CBX1000Z
|_\_____/_| ..90668../..24701.../..31928.
(>|_|_|<) TPPFATUICG#7 DIAABTCOD#9 WG*
|__|_|__| BOTAFOT #70 BOTAFOF #09 PM#5
\ |^| / IbW#0 & KotIbW# BotTOS#6 GP#4
\|^|/ ANORAK#17 IbB#4 YTC#4 two#11
'^' RBR Clues: 26 Pts:0500 Miles:1739

The Older Gentleman wrote:
> Champ <news@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 14:13:40 +0100, steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hog <hogSPAM@freenetCHIPS.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Hmmmm, they're very temptingly cheap - especially as I'd get a
>>>>> Ducati and Katie would still get a comfy pillion seat.
>>>>
>>>> Yes but an ST4S is such a superior bike why short change yourself.
>>>
>>> I'm scared of owning something with a 916 derived engine. It would
>>> appear to be financial suicide.
>>
>> You do come out with some crap sometimes.
>
> It wouldn't be the maintenance costs that would worry me: it would be
> the nagging doubt that the 916/996 lump simply isn't as solid as some
> of the old two-valvers, and that any repair work will come into the
> 'ferociously expensive' category.

Uh? the 996 engine is unburstable AFAIK. THe original 916 might have had a
few niggles but TBF that was mostly on the electrics.

--
Hog
'03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400

	#1
SteveH	Ducati ST2 Always fancied a Ducati ST - and looking at current ST prices, they're incredibly good value. However, I have one doubt in my mind about them - although the engine is what appears to be a 2v lump, they're also water-cooled. Are they as simple to maintain as the 750 / 900SS lumps, or are they verging on 916 complexity? -- SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

	#2
wessie	Re: Ducati ST2 steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) wrote in news:1i0ycod.1kcdmnjs9pk9N% steve@italiancar.co.uk: > Always fancied a Ducati ST - and looking at current ST prices, they're > incredibly good value. > > However, I have one doubt in my mind about them - although the engine is > what appears to be a 2v lump, they're also water-cooled. > > Are they as simple to maintain as the 750 / 900SS lumps, or are they > verging on 916 complexity? > Based on your useage why not just get it dealer serviced? It's only going to be a once a year affair. I could easily do the maintenance on the R-GS. It's piss easy but a) I'm lazy b) a 12k "main" service cost £150 at an independent specialist and c) I can go shopping[1] in the cosmopolitan metropolis that is Cardiff whilst he does it [1] Greggs steak slices are fab and I can stock up on disposable Primark T- shirts for work -- wessie at tesco dot net BMW R1150GS

	#3
The Older Gentleman	Re: Ducati ST2 SteveH <steve@italiancar.co.uk> wrote: > Always fancied a Ducati ST - and looking at current ST prices, they're > incredibly good value. > > However, I have one doubt in my mind about them - although the engine is > what appears to be a 2v lump, they're also water-cooled. > > Are they as simple to maintain as the 750 / 900SS lumps, or are they > verging on 916 complexity? The engine is basically the old SOHC two-valve head jobbie, but with a water jacket. So very simple to maintain. The only prob is that they're the 944 capacity, so ultimately not as solid as the 750. And they never watercooled the 750. -- BMW K1100LT 750SS CB400F CD250 SL125 GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3 BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....

	#4
SteveH	Re: Ducati ST2 The Older Gentleman <chateau.murray.takethisout@dsl.pipex.com> wrote: > SteveH <steve@italiancar.co.uk> wrote: > > > Always fancied a Ducati ST - and looking at current ST prices, they're > > incredibly good value. > > > > However, I have one doubt in my mind about them - although the engine is > > what appears to be a 2v lump, they're also water-cooled. > > > > Are they as simple to maintain as the 750 / 900SS lumps, or are they > > verging on 916 complexity? > > The engine is basically the old SOHC two-valve head jobbie, but with a > water jacket. So very simple to maintain. The only prob is that they're > the 944 capacity, so ultimately not as solid as the 750. And they never > watercooled the 750. Hmmmm, they're very temptingly cheap - especially as I'd get a Ducati and Katie would still get a comfy pillion seat. -- SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

	#5
Hog	Re: Ducati ST2 SteveH wrote: > The Older Gentleman <chateau.murray.takethisout@dsl.pipex.com> wrote: > >> SteveH <steve@italiancar.co.uk> wrote: >> >>> Always fancied a Ducati ST - and looking at current ST prices, >>> they're incredibly good value. >>> >>> However, I have one doubt in my mind about them - although the >>> engine is what appears to be a 2v lump, they're also water-cooled. >>> >>> Are they as simple to maintain as the 750 / 900SS lumps, or are they >>> verging on 916 complexity? >> >> The engine is basically the old SOHC two-valve head jobbie, but with >> a water jacket. So very simple to maintain. The only prob is that >> they're the 944 capacity, so ultimately not as solid as the 750. And >> they never watercooled the 750. > > Hmmmm, they're very temptingly cheap - especially as I'd get a Ducati > and Katie would still get a comfy pillion seat. Yes but an ST4S is such a superior bike why short change yourself. -- Hog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400

	#6
SteveH	Re: Ducati ST2 Hog <hogSPAM@freenetCHIPS.co.uk> wrote: > > Hmmmm, they're very temptingly cheap - especially as I'd get a Ducati > > and Katie would still get a comfy pillion seat. > > Yes but an ST4S is such a superior bike why short change yourself. I'm scared of owning something with a 916 derived engine. It would appear to be financial suicide. -- SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

	#7
ginge	Re: Ducati ST2 SteveH wrote: > Hog <hogSPAM@freenetCHIPS.co.uk> wrote: > > > > Hmmmm, they're very temptingly cheap - especially as I'd get a Ducati > > > and Katie would still get a comfy pillion seat. > > > > Yes but an ST4S is such a superior bike why short change yourself. > > I'm scared of owning something with a 916 derived engine. It would > appear to be financial suicide. If a few hundred quid once a year is financial suicide, I'd suggest you've probably got more significant worries than what bike to buy.

	#8
Champ	Re: Ducati ST2 On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 14:13:40 +0100, steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) wrote: >Hog <hogSPAM@freenetCHIPS.co.uk> wrote: > >> > Hmmmm, they're very temptingly cheap - especially as I'd get a Ducati >> > and Katie would still get a comfy pillion seat. >> >> Yes but an ST4S is such a superior bike why short change yourself. > >I'm scared of owning something with a 916 derived engine. It would >appear to be financial suicide. You do come out with some crap sometimes. -- Champ ZX10R GPz750turbo neal at champ dot org dot uk

	#9
darsy	Re: Ducati ST2 On Jul 9, 2:43 pm, Champ <n...@champ.org.uk> wrote: > On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 14:13:40 +0100, s...@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) > wrote: > >I'm scared of owning something with a 916 derived engine. It would > >appear to be financial suicide. > > You do come out with some crap sometimes. what do you mean "sometimes"? -- d.

	#10
SteveH	Re: Ducati ST2 ginge <the.gingeREMOVE@THISgmail.com> wrote: > SteveH wrote: > > Hog <hogSPAM@freenetCHIPS.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > > Hmmmm, they're very temptingly cheap - especially as I'd get a Ducati > > > > and Katie would still get a comfy pillion seat. > > > > > > Yes but an ST4S is such a superior bike why short change yourself. > > > > I'm scared of owning something with a 916 derived engine. It would > > appear to be financial suicide. > > If a few hundred quid once a year is financial suicide, I'd suggest > you've probably got more significant worries than what bike to buy. Figure of speech. I don't want a bike that costs the thick end of a grand in servicing every 2 years. (916 engined bikes are generally quoted as £500-£600 for a 12k service / £300-£400 for a 6k service) - I'm not likely to want to service one of those at home. -- SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

	#12
SteveH	Re: Ducati ST2 Champ <news@champ.org.uk> wrote: > >> If a few hundred quid once a year is financial suicide, I'd suggest > >> you've probably got more significant worries than what bike to buy. > > > >Figure of speech. > > > >I don't want a bike that costs the thick end of a grand in servicing > >every 2 years. (916 engined bikes are generally quoted as £500-£600 for > >a 12k service / £300-£400 for a 6k service) - I'm not likely to want to > >service one of those at home. > > Surely thats only a couple of hundred quid a year for your mileage, > tho. 6k or 12 months, 12k or 24 months. Unless you really feel lucky with cambelts. I don't. Which is why I fancied an ST2 - I know I'm perfectly capable of looking after one of those myself. -- SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

	#15
Timo Geusch	Re: Ducati ST2 steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) writes: > 'financial suicide' was a figure of speech to express the fact that the > 916 engined bikes cost one hell of a lot more to keep serviced than your > average Jap bike. Nah, 'financial suicide' would probably be if I tried to run one on my daily commute, 'cos that would mean I'd have to get it serviced every three months. If you can blow that kind of cash on a couple of track days then you should be able to spend that on your bike during the course of a year. And if that seems too pricey, sir may want to investigate the possibilities of getting a C90 instead. -- Morini Corsaro 125 \| CB450K4 \| XL250 Motosport x2 \| 900SSD \| VFR750 Triumph T-Bird chop \| K1100LT \| CB400/4 BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10 The UKRM FAQ: http://www.ukrm.net/faq/index.html "Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar

	#16
Phil Launchbury	Re: Ducati ST2 In article <82k5t9abeq.fsf@nermal.unix-consult.com>, Timo Geusch wrote: > steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) writes: > >> 'financial suicide' was a figure of speech to express the fact that the >> 916 engined bikes cost one hell of a lot more to keep serviced than your >> average Jap bike. > > Nah, 'financial suicide' would probably be if I tried to run one on my > daily commute, 'cos that would mean I'd have to get it serviced every > three months. My oldest brother did that for about 9 months - commuted from Tunbridge Wells to Stevenage on a mid-size Honda (can't remember which one - it was the late 80's). It died finally and terminally after 9 months. It was being serviced about every month.. And from memory it died fairly messily. > possibilities of getting a C90 instead. Or a pushbike. Phil. -- Phil Launchbury, IT PHB 'I'm training the bats that live in my cube to juggle mushrooms'

	#17
Timo Geusch	Re: Ducati ST2 Phil Launchbury <phill@launchbury.org.uk> writes: > In article <82k5t9abeq.fsf@nermal.unix-consult.com>, Timo Geusch wrote: >> steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) writes: >> >>> 'financial suicide' was a figure of speech to express the fact that the >>> 916 engined bikes cost one hell of a lot more to keep serviced than your >>> average Jap bike. >> >> Nah, 'financial suicide' would probably be if I tried to run one on my >> daily commute, 'cos that would mean I'd have to get it serviced every >> three months. > > My oldest brother did that for about 9 months - commuted from Tunbridge > Wells to Stevenage on a mid-size Honda (can't remember which one - it > was the late 80's). Hmm, that's only about 20 miles more in each direction... Mind you, the additional wear you get from this kind of mileage is quite noticeable. >> possibilities of getting a C90 instead. > > Or a pushbike. There is that. -- Morini Corsaro 125 \| CB450K4 \| XL250 Motosport x2 \| 900SSD \| VFR750 Triumph T-Bird chop \| K1100LT \| CB400/4 BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10 The UKRM FAQ: http://www.ukrm.net/faq/index.html "Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar

	#19
CT	Re: Ducati ST2 Champ wrote: > One of the Team Ixie guys (who's name I forget) commuted a similar > distance if not more on an R1. The engine got replaced at about 70k > miles, and it finally got stolen at 98k miles. IIRC. ISTR that was posted on here, sometime back. -- Chris

	#20
Hog	Re: Ducati ST2 Timo Geusch wrote: > steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) writes: > >> 'financial suicide' was a figure of speech to express the fact that >> the 916 engined bikes cost one hell of a lot more to keep serviced >> than your average Jap bike. > > Nah, 'financial suicide' would probably be if I tried to run one on my > daily commute, 'cos that would mean I'd have to get it serviced every > three months. > > If you can blow that kind of cash on a couple of track days then you > should be able to spend that on your bike during the course of a > year. And if that seems too pricey, sir may want to investigate the > possibilities of getting a C90 instead. Well lets look at the specifics. I used a 996 to commute to London from Oxford. Note the ST4 is the 916, the ST4S is the 996. The latter is a much better unit. Look at the actual service prices for starters, not as great a difference as one might think. http://www.ducati-john.co.uk/routine...-servicing.htm Belts, of which much is made. For peace of mind change every 6000 miles if you will, I think factory is 12000 though. Buy a little tool perhaps http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ducat...QQcmdZViewItem and do it yourself. Belts are only £26 each or thereabouts. Oil changes, filters etc. you would do yourself. What does that leave? valve clearances. Get a man to do it every 12000 miles, checking the rocker faces at the same time. -- Hog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400

	#22
Champ	Re: Ducati ST2 On 9 Jul 2007 15:39:55 GMT, "CT" <me@christrollen.co.uk> wrote: >Champ wrote: > >> One of the Team Ixie guys (who's name I forget) commuted a similar >> distance if not more on an R1. The engine got replaced at about 70k >> miles, and it finally got stolen at 98k miles. IIRC. > >ISTR that was posted on here, sometime back. er, yes, that's where I remember it from. -- Champ ZX10R GPz750turbo neal at champ dot org dot uk

	#23
steve auvache	Re: Ducati ST2 In article <4jk49316d95c92lvg17st2rbf6uaisv7hm@4ax.com>, Champ <news@champ.org.uk> writes >On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 15:48:18 +0100, Phil Launchbury ><phill@launchbury.org.uk> wrote: > >>> Nah, 'financial suicide' would probably be if I tried to run one on my >>> daily commute, 'cos that would mean I'd have to get it serviced every >>> three months. >> >>My oldest brother did that for about 9 months - commuted from Tunbridge >>Wells to Stevenage on a mid-size Honda (can't remember which one - it >>was the late 80's). >> >>It died finally and terminally after 9 months. It was being serviced >>about every month.. And from memory it died fairly messily. > >One of the Team Ixie guys (who's name I forget) commuted a similar >distance if not more on an R1. The engine got replaced at about 70k >miles, and it finally got stolen at 98k miles. IIRC. I rode a GPZ550 into the ground commuting 206 miles a day on a return trip to Norwich and back plus weekend mileage. It had been couriered before I got it, I was quite impressed that it lasted me nearly 4 months before the top end finally gave out. -- steve auvache A Bloo one with built in safety features

	#24
Hog	Re: Ducati ST2 steve auvache wrote: > In article <4jk49316d95c92lvg17st2rbf6uaisv7hm@4ax.com>, Champ >> One of the Team Ixie guys (who's name I forget) commuted a similar >> distance if not more on an R1. The engine got replaced at about 70k >> miles, and it finally got stolen at 98k miles. IIRC. > > I rode a GPZ550 into the ground commuting 206 miles a day on a return > trip to Norwich and back plus weekend mileage. It had been couriered > before I got it, I was quite impressed that it lasted me nearly 4 > months before the top end finally gave out. Hmm people on pre 1993 K's could do reliably do 150K with sensible servicing. Boxers 100K. That was where the BMW reputation came from, sadly lost. I've heard of some VF750 generations doing the same. -- Hog '03 ST4S '96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400

	#27
Andy Bonwick	Re: Ducati ST2 On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:15:51 -0000, darsy <darsyx@sticky.co.uk> wrote: snip> >500 quid / year is considerably less than what I spend on /lunch/ It's less than I spend on stuff for a packed lunch and that's without the added cost of toasted bacon sandwiches.