Dry Thrust Bearing Yamaha XJ600N

I own a 2000 Yamaha XJ600N, have done so since new and it has 29000
miles on the clock.

About three months ago after some clutch problems I dismantled the
clutch and found the thrust bearing had completely collapsed.

Thorough clean out and replaced the bearing, plates were fine within
makes specs.

A couple of weeks back the clutch started to play up again and make a
rattling noise; dismantled the clutch housing and the thrust bearing is
bone dry.

I have uploaded images (300KB) as follows;

www.3lanes.dsl.pipex.com/clutch/internal.jpg
www.3lanes.dsl.pipex.com/clutch/bearing.jpg
www.3lanes.dsl.pipex.com/clutch/hole.jpg

I have spoken to a few more knowledgeable persons than myself and all
feel it is splash lubrication for the bearing and are puzzled as to the
problem.

From the images I cannot see where any lubrication would feed, any
suggestions as to problem would be appreciated.

Geoff Lane

Geoff Lane wrote:

> From the images I cannot see where any lubrication would feed, any
> suggestions as to problem would be appreciated.

Your head gasket's gone or you do 1/2 mile a day. Aren't you concerned
about all the white goo in the bottom of the engine?

John

"Geoff Lane" <datemasde.t1m@gishpuppy.com> wrote in message
news:f78cv7$8ge$1@news.datemas.de...
> I own a 2000 Yamaha XJ600N, have done so since new and it has 29000
> miles on the clock.
>
> About three months ago after some clutch problems I dismantled the
> clutch and found the thrust bearing had completely collapsed.
>
> Thorough clean out and replaced the bearing, plates were fine within
> makes specs.
>
> A couple of weeks back the clutch started to play up again and make a
> rattling noise; dismantled the clutch housing and the thrust bearing is
> bone dry.
>
> I have uploaded images (300KB) as follows;
>
> www.3lanes.dsl.pipex.com/clutch/internal.jpg
> www.3lanes.dsl.pipex.com/clutch/bearing.jpg
> www.3lanes.dsl.pipex.com/clutch/hole.jpg
>
> I have spoken to a few more knowledgeable persons than myself and all
> feel it is splash lubrication for the bearing and are puzzled as to the
> problem.
>
> From the images I cannot see where any lubrication would feed, any
> suggestions as to problem would be appreciated.
>
> Geoff Lane

Hi Geoff,

I believe there is a little modification to be made when fitting a new
bearing which increase its life.

Can't remember where I got the information from... think it may have been a
local mechanic.

David

Geoff Lane wrote:

> I own a 2000 Yamaha XJ600N, have done so since new and it has 29000
> miles on the clock.
>

Blimey.

>
> From the images I cannot see where any lubrication would feed, any
> suggestions as to problem would be appreciated.
>

Tell us, Geoff, how much oil is (usually) in your engine?

--
Mike
FJ1200

John Greystrong wrote:

>
>> From the images I cannot see where any lubrication would feed, any
>> suggestions as to problem would be appreciated.
>
> Your head gasket's gone or you do 1/2 mile a day. Aren't you concerned
> about all the white goo in the bottom of the engine?

During the week my commuting journeys are short and yes I am concerned
about the white goo but at the moment I am wondering why oil is not
appearing to get to the inner part of the clutch.

Geoff Lane

Wicked Uncle Nigel wrote:

>
> Your bike's fu**ed mate.

Right thanks, I'll look around for a new one then.

Geoff Lane

David Thomas wrote:

>> From the images I cannot see where any lubrication would feed, any
>> suggestions as to problem would be appreciated.

> I believe there is a little modification to be made when fitting a new
> bearing which increase its life.
>
> Can't remember where I got the information from... think it may have been a
> local mechanic.

Thanks David, I'll continue to enquire but have already spoken to two
dealer mechanics who both concur that once the engine is turning oil
should get in to the bearing with all the splashing about.

Geoff Lane

mb wrote:

> Tell us, Geoff, how much oil is (usually) in your engine?

About 2/3 visible in he window when standing on the centre stand.

Geoff Lane

Geoff Lane expressed precisely :
> I own a 2000 Yamaha XJ600N, have done so since new and it has 29000 miles on
> the clock.

> About three months ago after some clutch problems I dismantled the clutch and
> found the thrust bearing had completely collapsed.

> Thorough clean out and replaced the bearing, plates were fine within makes
> specs.

> A couple of weeks back the clutch started to play up again and make a
> rattling noise; dismantled the clutch housing and the thrust bearing is bone
> dry.

> I have uploaded images (300KB) as follows;

> www.3lanes.dsl.pipex.com/clutch/internal.jpg

That looks very dry!

Is that really meant to be a dry clutch? Could you check this point out
with a dealer?

The photo looks as if the casing is not really intended to hold oil
(judging by the photos), which tends to support the dry clutch is
intentional theory.

Sorry I can't be more help.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Geoff Lane wrote:

> mb wrote:
>
> > Tell us, Geoff, how much oil is (usually) in your engine?
>
> About 2/3 visible in he window when standing on the centre stand.
>

Are you using the correct procedure for checking the oil? Consult your
manual.
Some bikes (Yamahas...) need to be checked about a minute after
shutting the engine off.

--
Mike
FJ1200

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Geoff Lane
<datemasde.t1m@gishpuppy.com> saying something like:

>Thanks David, I'll continue to enquire but have already spoken to two
>dealer mechanics who both concur that once the engine is turning oil
>should get in to the bearing with all the splashing about.

That should certainly be the case, normally. Do you always park it on
the sidestand, and is your short commute the only use it gets? I've a
feeling it's simply not getting enough use and the oil isn't getting a
chance to thrash around enough.
Splash lube is always a bit hit and miss, but the odds are usually in
its favour, given enough running time. It only takes the odd splash of
oil to keep that little bearing happy for ages. As has been suggested,
if there's a mod, it'll be worth doing. I think the mod will involve
opening up a pathway for the oil to drip onto that bearing - perhaps a
short drilling.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

Teach a man to fish and he and his pikey mates will have the
river cleaned out in a day.

"Geoff Lane" <datemasde.t1m@gishpuppy.com> wrote in message
news:f7a4ft$ma0$3@news.datemas.de...
> David Thomas wrote:
>
> >> From the images I cannot see where any lubrication would feed, any
> >> suggestions as to problem would be appreciated.
>
> > I believe there is a little modification to be made when fitting a new
> > bearing which increase its life.
> >
> > Can't remember where I got the information from... think it may have
been a
> > local mechanic.
>
> Thanks David, I'll continue to enquire but have already spoken to two
> dealer mechanics who both concur that once the engine is turning oil
> should get in to the bearing with all the splashing about.
>
> Geoff Lane

Hi Geoff

I think the mod involves making a drilling that allows more oil to get to
the bearing, if you are interested I can probably put you in touch with
someone that knows about this item.

HTH, David

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

>> Thanks David, I'll continue to enquire but have already spoken to two
>> dealer mechanics who both concur that once the engine is turning oil
>> should get in to the bearing with all the splashing about.
>
> That should certainly be the case, normally. Do you always park it on
> the sidestand, and is your short commute the only use it gets?

Most of the time I use the centre stand. Weekends my wife and I
generally go for a decent spin of around 100 miles but not every weekend.

> I've a
> feeling it's simply not getting enough use and the oil isn't getting a
> chance to thrash around enough.

Could be but I had around 25000 trouble free miles over 5 years and now
two similar problems within a couple of months.

> Splash lube is always a bit hit and miss, but the odds are usually in
> its favour, given enough running time. It only takes the odd splash of
> oil to keep that little bearing happy for ages. As has been suggested,
> if there's a mod, it'll be worth doing. I think the mod will involve
> opening up a pathway for the oil to drip onto that bearing - perhaps a
> short drilling.

A friend has asked that I get the clutch boss tab washer and a seal for
the top of the clutch housing where the gear rod enters and intends to
have a good investigate.

I'll post the result so am presntly awaiting parts.

Geoff Lane

Muck wrote:

> You'd think that there would be enough oil mist to damp everything down
> with oil in there. I'd look for blocked oil jets if there are any, and
> also keep an eye on emulsion formation. Check the oil pressure too, to
> make sure you've not got a blocked something, or a worn something else.
>

A mate is going to give it a good check over, I understand mechanics OK
but he rebuilds bikes for a hobby and has the same model as mine.

I think (Hope)the emulsion is down to short commuter journeys plus bike
left outside and not covered but I am getting a new clutch shaft seal.

Geoff Lane

David Thomas wrote:

> I think the mod involves making a drilling that allows more oil to get to
> the bearing, if you are interested I can probably put you in touch with
> someone that knows about this item.

Thanks David, if there is a mod I assume there must have been a problem
along the line.

If you have the contact details to hand I would appreciate them but I
will mention it to a mate of mine who rebuilds bikes for a hobby; he may
have an idea.

Geoff Lane

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

> Is that really meant to be a dry clutch? Could you check this point out
> with a dealer?

Oh yes, level window in side of case.

> The photo looks as if the casing is not really intended to hold oil
> (judging by the photos), which tends to support the dry clutch is
> intentional theory.
>
> Sorry I can't be more help.

No problem, thanks for the interest.

Geoff Lane

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Geoff Lane
<datemasde.t1m@gishpuppy.com> saying something like:

>A friend has asked that I get the clutch boss tab washer and a seal for
>the top of the clutch housing where the gear rod enters and intends to
>have a good investigate.
>
>I'll post the result so am presntly awaiting parts.

It'a an odd one. I've never seen a wet clutch that dry - so dry the
bearing is knackered through lack of oil. What might be worth a try is
let the bike gently down on the clutch side so the oil runs into the
clutch housing.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

Teach a man to fish and he and his pikey mates will have the
river cleaned out in a day.

Geoff Lane pretended :
> David Thomas wrote:

>> I think the mod involves making a drilling that allows more oil to get to
>> the bearing, if you are interested I can probably put you in touch with
>> someone that knows about this item.

> Thanks David, if there is a mod I assume there must have been a problem along
> the line.

> If you have the contact details to hand I would appreciate them but I will
> mention it to a mate of mine who rebuilds bikes for a hobby; he may have an
> idea.

> Geoff Lane

I have found a few mentions on the Internet of this problem and it
seems it is well a known problem of the xj600. Part of the problem is
internal condensation due to the engine not becoming hot enough when
used on short runs - the fix for this is a modified breather available
from Yamaha for £25.

There is also a problem of inadequate lubrication to the thrust
bearing, this is suggested to be helped by drilling holes in the plate.
It gave no other details - no sizes for the holes, number of holes, nor
any clues as to which plate to drill the holes in.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

In message <f7ct46$1s4$1@news.datemas.de>, Geoff Lane
<datemasde.t1m@gishpuppy.com> writes

>A mate is going to give it a good check over, I understand mechanics OK
>but he rebuilds bikes for a hobby and has the same model as mine.
>
>I think (Hope)the emulsion is down to short commuter journeys plus bike
>left outside and not covered but I am getting a new clutch shaft seal.

Has it had the oil breather mod done?

Mine used to do the same (and piss oil out of the top end somewhere).
The breather mod cured both problems. I had it done by the dealer at
its routine service so I don't know how much it costs.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

"Geoff Lane" <datemasde.t1m@gishpuppy.com> wrote in message
news:f7cta1$1s4$2@news.datemas.de...
> David Thomas wrote:
>
>> I think the mod involves making a drilling that allows more oil to get to
>> the bearing, if you are interested I can probably put you in touch with
>> someone that knows about this item.
>
> Thanks David, if there is a mod I assume there must have been a problem
> along the line.
>
> If you have the contact details to hand I would appreciate them but I will
> mention it to a mate of mine who rebuilds bikes for a hobby; he may have
> an idea.
>

Hi Geoff

Give this company a ring, contact details at:

http://www.johnparkermotorcycles.co.uk/

Ask for Stephen, I am certain it was him I saw carrying out this
modification on a XJ600 last summer.

HTH, David

Steve Fitzgerald wrote:

> Has it had the oil breather mod done?

Not knowingly, I'll look in to that one.

Geoff Lane

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
> drugs began to take hold. I remember Geoff Lane
> <datemasde.t1m@gishpuppy.com> saying something like:
>
>> A friend has asked that I get the clutch boss tab washer and a seal for
>> the top of the clutch housing where the gear rod enters and intends to
>> have a good investigate.
>>
>> I'll post the result so am presntly awaiting parts.
>
> It'a an odd one. I've never seen a wet clutch that dry - so dry the
> bearing is knackered through lack of oil. What might be worth a try is
> let the bike gently down on the clutch side so the oil runs into the
> clutch housing.

Worth a try if I don't find an obvious problem but I have an oil lvel
window in the clutch cover and the level seemed OK.

Geoff Lane

David Thomas wrote:

> Give this company a ring, contact details at:

> Ask for Stephen, I am certain it was him I saw carrying out this
> modification on a XJ600 last summer.

Thanks David.

Geoff Lane

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Geoff Lane
<datemasde.t1m@gishpuppy.com> saying something like:

>> It'a an odd one. I've never seen a wet clutch that dry - so dry the
>> bearing is knackered through lack of oil. What might be worth a try is
>> let the bike gently down on the clutch side so the oil runs into the
>> clutch housing.
>
>Worth a try if I don't find an obvious problem but I have an oil lvel
>window in the clutch cover and the level seemed OK.

Yebbut, the normal oil level probably doesn't reach as high as the
bearing; although splashlube should normally take care of that, it
obviously isn't in this design, so a laying down of the bike will get
oil to where it should go.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

Teach a man to fish and he and his pikey mates will have the
river cleaned out in a day.

	#1
Geoff Lane	Dry Thrust Bearing Yamaha XJ600N I own a 2000 Yamaha XJ600N, have done so since new and it has 29000 miles on the clock. About three months ago after some clutch problems I dismantled the clutch and found the thrust bearing had completely collapsed. Thorough clean out and replaced the bearing, plates were fine within makes specs. A couple of weeks back the clutch started to play up again and make a rattling noise; dismantled the clutch housing and the thrust bearing is bone dry. I have uploaded images (300KB) as follows; www.3lanes.dsl.pipex.com/clutch/internal.jpg www.3lanes.dsl.pipex.com/clutch/bearing.jpg www.3lanes.dsl.pipex.com/clutch/hole.jpg I have spoken to a few more knowledgeable persons than myself and all feel it is splash lubrication for the bearing and are puzzled as to the problem. From the images I cannot see where any lubrication would feed, any suggestions as to problem would be appreciated. Geoff Lane

	#2
John Greystrong	Re: Dry Thrust Bearing Yamaha XJ600N Geoff Lane wrote: > From the images I cannot see where any lubrication would feed, any > suggestions as to problem would be appreciated. Your head gasket's gone or you do 1/2 mile a day. Aren't you concerned about all the white goo in the bottom of the engine? John

	#3
David Thomas	Re: Dry Thrust Bearing Yamaha XJ600N "Geoff Lane" <datemasde.t1m@gishpuppy.com> wrote in message news:f78cv7$8ge$1@news.datemas.de... > I own a 2000 Yamaha XJ600N, have done so since new and it has 29000 > miles on the clock. > > About three months ago after some clutch problems I dismantled the > clutch and found the thrust bearing had completely collapsed. > > Thorough clean out and replaced the bearing, plates were fine within > makes specs. > > A couple of weeks back the clutch started to play up again and make a > rattling noise; dismantled the clutch housing and the thrust bearing is > bone dry. > > I have uploaded images (300KB) as follows; > > www.3lanes.dsl.pipex.com/clutch/internal.jpg > www.3lanes.dsl.pipex.com/clutch/bearing.jpg > www.3lanes.dsl.pipex.com/clutch/hole.jpg > > I have spoken to a few more knowledgeable persons than myself and all > feel it is splash lubrication for the bearing and are puzzled as to the > problem. > > From the images I cannot see where any lubrication would feed, any > suggestions as to problem would be appreciated. > > Geoff Lane Hi Geoff, I believe there is a little modification to be made when fitting a new bearing which increase its life. Can't remember where I got the information from... think it may have been a local mechanic. David

	#9
Harry Bloomfield	Re: Dry Thrust Bearing Yamaha XJ600N Geoff Lane expressed precisely : > I own a 2000 Yamaha XJ600N, have done so since new and it has 29000 miles on > the clock. > About three months ago after some clutch problems I dismantled the clutch and > found the thrust bearing had completely collapsed. > Thorough clean out and replaced the bearing, plates were fine within makes > specs. > A couple of weeks back the clutch started to play up again and make a > rattling noise; dismantled the clutch housing and the thrust bearing is bone > dry. > I have uploaded images (300KB) as follows; > www.3lanes.dsl.pipex.com/clutch/internal.jpg That looks very dry! Is that really meant to be a dry clutch? Could you check this point out with a dealer? The photo looks as if the casing is not really intended to hold oil (judging by the photos), which tends to support the dry clutch is intentional theory. Sorry I can't be more help. -- Regards, Harry (M1BYT) (L) http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

	#11
Grimly Curmudgeon	Re: Dry Thrust Bearing Yamaha XJ600N We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Geoff Lane <datemasde.t1m@gishpuppy.com> saying something like: >Thanks David, I'll continue to enquire but have already spoken to two >dealer mechanics who both concur that once the engine is turning oil >should get in to the bearing with all the splashing about. That should certainly be the case, normally. Do you always park it on the sidestand, and is your short commute the only use it gets? I've a feeling it's simply not getting enough use and the oil isn't getting a chance to thrash around enough. Splash lube is always a bit hit and miss, but the odds are usually in its favour, given enough running time. It only takes the odd splash of oil to keep that little bearing happy for ages. As has been suggested, if there's a mod, it'll be worth doing. I think the mod will involve opening up a pathway for the oil to drip onto that bearing - perhaps a short drilling. -- Dave GS850x2 XS650 SE6a Teach a man to fish and he and his pikey mates will have the river cleaned out in a day.

	#19
Steve Fitzgerald	Re: Dry Thrust Bearing Yamaha XJ600N In message <f7ct46$1s4$1@news.datemas.de>, Geoff Lane <datemasde.t1m@gishpuppy.com> writes >A mate is going to give it a good check over, I understand mechanics OK >but he rebuilds bikes for a hobby and has the same model as mine. > >I think (Hope)the emulsion is down to short commuter journeys plus bike >left outside and not covered but I am getting a new clutch shaft seal. Has it had the oil breather mod done? Mine used to do the same (and piss oil out of the top end somewhere). The breather mod cured both problems. I had it done by the dealer at its routine service so I don't know how much it costs. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email)