Clearing Flooded Cylinders...

....preferably without the use of a blowtorch.

The GSXR (400 GK71F) hasn't started since my uncle had it running the other
night, and since I'm not putting it on the road until I've sold the goose, I
figured that now would be a good time to strip the carbs.

Took them out, cleaned the jets and other bits and pieces. Wrote down what
jets were where for future reference. Why are 1 and 3 running on 100, while
2 and 4 are running on 96? I would of presumed that all the jets would be
the same.

Anyway, put the cleaned out carbs back on, and the bike still didn't start.
Took the plugs out which appeared wet, implying that the cylinders were
flooded(?) probably from trying to start the bike.
Cleaned of the plugs and reinserted them. Pressed the started, got a couple
of backfires, then back to nothing again[1]. Took the plugs out, which were
wet again.

The bike turns over, but won't make any attempt to catch, so I've left the
bike with the battery on charge.

So, is the flooding why the bike won't start, and how do I clear the
cylinders?

[1]Also tried with the choke off and throttle fully open, as heard this
helps get more air in with flooded cylinders?

--
Dynamic - 'Faster than Spete'
ZZR 250(x2), TZR 125, VF 500(In bits), SG350, GSXR400 GK71F
MIRTTH#23 SH#5

"Dynamic" <Phill@ward6056.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c24s8i$j9s$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...

<snip>

> how do I clear the cylinders?

Leave the bike and let them drain into sump, or turn it over
without the plugs in and stand clear.

--
Cammo
VT500 Rat
GSX750SE Katana
GT250-X7
GT380
http://cammo.webs.bikers-engine.com
cammo at bikers-engine dot com

"Dynamic" <Phill@ward6056.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c24s8i$j9s$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> ...preferably without the use of a blowtorch.

Have you asked on microsoft.public.excel.misc ?

--
Sorby

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:02:53 -0000, "Dynamic"
<Phill@ward6056.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>...preferably without the use of a blowtorch.
>
>The GSXR (400 GK71F) hasn't started since my uncle had it running the other
>night, and since I'm not putting it on the road until I've sold the goose, I
>figured that now would be a good time to strip the carbs.
>
>Took them out, cleaned the jets and other bits and pieces. Wrote down what
>jets were where for future reference. Why are 1 and 3 running on 100, while
>2 and 4 are running on 96? I would of presumed that all the jets would be
>the same.

They should be

>Anyway, put the cleaned out carbs back on, and the bike still didn't start.
>Took the plugs out which appeared wet, implying that the cylinders were
>flooded(?) probably from trying to start the bike.
>Cleaned of the plugs and reinserted them. Pressed the started, got a couple
>of backfires, then back to nothing again[1]. Took the plugs out, which were
>wet again.
>
>The bike turns over, but won't make any attempt to catch, so I've left the
>bike with the battery on charge.
>
>So, is the flooding why the bike won't start, and how do I clear the
>cylinders?

Sounds like an ignition problem. Have you check that you've got
sparks on all the plugs?
--
Champ
GSX-R 1000, GPz 750 turbo, ZX7RR Endurance Racer x 2
GYASB#0 BotToS#2 BOTAFO(T|F)#35 WG*#1 DFV#8
Team UKRM Racing : www.team-ukrm.com

Dynamic wrote:

> ...preferably without the use of a blowtorch.
>
> The GSXR (400 GK71F) hasn't started since my uncle had it running the
> other night, and since I'm not putting it on the road until I've sold the
> goose, I figured that now would be a good time to strip the carbs.
>
> Took them out, cleaned the jets and other bits and pieces. Wrote down what
> jets were where for future reference. Why are 1 and 3 running on 100,
> while 2 and 4 are running on 96? I would of presumed that all the jets
> would be the same.

Usually they are the same. I'd have expected the outer pair to run the 100s
and the inner pair the 96s or all 100s, not 1+3,2+4 like that.

>
> Anyway, put the cleaned out carbs back on, and the bike still didn't
> start. Took the plugs out which appeared wet, implying that the cylinders
> were flooded(?) probably from trying to start the bike.
> Cleaned of the plugs and reinserted them. Pressed the started, got a
> couple of backfires, then back to nothing again[1]. Took the plugs out,
> which were wet again.
>

You have got the plug leads back on the correct plugs haven't you. If you
have them crossed up, the plugs will spark, but not at the correct time and
you will get an occaisional backfire. Usually paired 1+4,2+3

> The bike turns over, but won't make any attempt to catch, so I've left the
> bike with the battery on charge.
>
> So, is the flooding why the bike won't start, and how do I clear the
> cylinders?
>

Remove the plugs, ground the HT leads -well away from the plug holes- turn
engine on starter for a few seconds.

> [1]Also tried with the choke off and throttle fully open, as heard this
> helps get more air in with flooded cylinders?

Yes and no. Mostly yes. With the plugs in, there will be a pressure drop as
the piston descends, which will draw fuel. Nowhere near as much as when the
engine is running, but some fuel will get through.

>
> --
> Dynamic - 'Faster than Spete'
> ZZR 250(x2), TZR 125, VF 500(In bits), SG350, GSXR400 GK71F
> MIRTTH#23 SH#5

--

?

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:02:53 -0000, "Dynamic"
<Phill@ward6056.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>Why are 1 and 3 running on 100, while
>2 and 4 are running on 96?

It can happen, because of airbox flow characteristics, that air
distribution to the carb intakes isn't even. I've come across ones where
the middle two are running ok, but the outer two are a bit on the
airstarved side and have slightly smaller jets as a consequence.

Yours seems to be arse about tit, so I wonder if someone has swapped
over the jets when rebuilding the carbs.

--

Dave

GS 850 x2 / SE 6a
SbS#6 DIAABTCOD#16 APOSTLE#6 FUB#3
FUB KotL OSOS#12? UKRMMA#19 COSOC#10

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:31:35 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

> On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:02:53 -0000, "Dynamic"
> <Phill@ward6056.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Why are 1 and 3 running on 100, while 2 and 4 are running on 96?
>
> It can happen, because of airbox flow characteristics, that air
> distribution to the carb intakes isn't even. I've come across ones where
> the middle two are running ok, but the outer two are a bit on the
> airstarved side and have slightly smaller jets as a consequence.
>
> Yours seems to be arse about tit, so I wonder if someone has swapped
> over the jets when rebuilding the carbs.

I thought it was more to do with the inboard cylinders getting less
cooling, so are setup with a slightly richer mix to keep things nice and
cool.

--
Muck
Bandit 600n; CG125(MSOHPR); DS#1 ; DOMO# ; SH#2
"There's no place like ::1"
Remove _TEETH_ to e-mail

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 20:40:28 +0000, Muck <mr.muck@vir_TEETH_gin.net>
wrote:

>> It can happen, because of airbox flow characteristics, that air
>> distribution to the carb intakes isn't even. I've come across ones where
>> the middle two are running ok, but the outer two are a bit on the
>> airstarved side and have slightly smaller jets as a consequence.
>>
>> Yours seems to be arse about tit, so I wonder if someone has swapped
>> over the jets when rebuilding the carbs.
>
>I thought it was more to do with the inboard cylinders getting less
>cooling, so are setup with a slightly richer mix to keep things nice and
>cool.

Possible; but I wonder if that reason would lead to a benefit or not.
<shrug>
Who knows the mysterious way of the designer. Whatever; it seems to
work, but there is obviously a limit on how different the outer/inner
cyls can be to each other.

--

Dave

GS 850 x2 / SE 6a
SbS#6 DIAABTCOD#16 APOSTLE#6 FUB#3
FUB KotL OSOS#12? UKRMMA#19 COSOC#10

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 21:46:32 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

> On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 20:40:28 +0000, Muck <mr.muck@vir_TEETH_gin.net>
> wrote:
>
>>> It can happen, because of airbox flow characteristics, that air
>>> distribution to the carb intakes isn't even. I've come across ones where
>>> the middle two are running ok, but the outer two are a bit on the
>>> airstarved side and have slightly smaller jets as a consequence.
>>>
>>> Yours seems to be arse about tit, so I wonder if someone has swapped
>>> over the jets when rebuilding the carbs.
>>
>>I thought it was more to do with the inboard cylinders getting less
>>cooling, so are setup with a slightly richer mix to keep things nice and
>>cool.
>
> Possible; but I wonder if that reason would lead to a benefit or not.
> <shrug>
> Who knows the mysterious way of the designer. Whatever; it seems to
> work, but there is obviously a limit on how different the outer/inner
> cyls can be to each other.

My Bandit is fitted with different inner / outer cylinder jets, but the
dyno jet kit has all the same jets for some reason. Who knows...

--
Muck
Bandit 600n; CG125(MSOHPR); DS#1 ; DOMO# ; SH#2
"There's no place like ::1"
Remove _TEETH_ to e-mail

	#1
Dynamic	Clearing Flooded Cylinders... ....preferably without the use of a blowtorch. The GSXR (400 GK71F) hasn't started since my uncle had it running the other night, and since I'm not putting it on the road until I've sold the goose, I figured that now would be a good time to strip the carbs. Took them out, cleaned the jets and other bits and pieces. Wrote down what jets were where for future reference. Why are 1 and 3 running on 100, while 2 and 4 are running on 96? I would of presumed that all the jets would be the same. Anyway, put the cleaned out carbs back on, and the bike still didn't start. Took the plugs out which appeared wet, implying that the cylinders were flooded(?) probably from trying to start the bike. Cleaned of the plugs and reinserted them. Pressed the started, got a couple of backfires, then back to nothing again[1]. Took the plugs out, which were wet again. The bike turns over, but won't make any attempt to catch, so I've left the bike with the battery on charge. So, is the flooding why the bike won't start, and how do I clear the cylinders? [1]Also tried with the choke off and throttle fully open, as heard this helps get more air in with flooded cylinders? -- Dynamic - 'Faster than Spete' ZZR 250(x2), TZR 125, VF 500(In bits), SG350, GSXR400 GK71F MIRTTH#23 SH#5

	#2
Cammo	Re: Clearing Flooded Cylinders... "Dynamic" <Phill@ward6056.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:c24s8i$j9s$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk... <snip> > how do I clear the cylinders? Leave the bike and let them drain into sump, or turn it over without the plugs in and stand clear. -- Cammo VT500 Rat GSX750SE Katana GT250-X7 GT380 http://cammo.webs.bikers-engine.com cammo at bikers-engine dot com

	#3
Sorby	Re: Clearing Flooded Cylinders... "Dynamic" <Phill@ward6056.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:c24s8i$j9s$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk... > ...preferably without the use of a blowtorch. Have you asked on microsoft.public.excel.misc ? -- Sorby

	#4
Champ	Re: Clearing Flooded Cylinders... On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:02:53 -0000, "Dynamic" <Phill@ward6056.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: >...preferably without the use of a blowtorch. > >The GSXR (400 GK71F) hasn't started since my uncle had it running the other >night, and since I'm not putting it on the road until I've sold the goose, I >figured that now would be a good time to strip the carbs. > >Took them out, cleaned the jets and other bits and pieces. Wrote down what >jets were where for future reference. Why are 1 and 3 running on 100, while >2 and 4 are running on 96? I would of presumed that all the jets would be >the same. They should be >Anyway, put the cleaned out carbs back on, and the bike still didn't start. >Took the plugs out which appeared wet, implying that the cylinders were >flooded(?) probably from trying to start the bike. >Cleaned of the plugs and reinserted them. Pressed the started, got a couple >of backfires, then back to nothing again[1]. Took the plugs out, which were >wet again. > >The bike turns over, but won't make any attempt to catch, so I've left the >bike with the battery on charge. > >So, is the flooding why the bike won't start, and how do I clear the >cylinders? Sounds like an ignition problem. Have you check that you've got sparks on all the plugs? -- Champ GSX-R 1000, GPz 750 turbo, ZX7RR Endurance Racer x 2 GYASB#0 BotToS#2 BOTAFO(T\|F)#35 WG*#1 DFV#8 Team UKRM Racing : www.team-ukrm.com

	#5
Sean at work	Re: Clearing Flooded Cylinders... Dynamic wrote: > ...preferably without the use of a blowtorch. > > The GSXR (400 GK71F) hasn't started since my uncle had it running the > other night, and since I'm not putting it on the road until I've sold the > goose, I figured that now would be a good time to strip the carbs. > > Took them out, cleaned the jets and other bits and pieces. Wrote down what > jets were where for future reference. Why are 1 and 3 running on 100, > while 2 and 4 are running on 96? I would of presumed that all the jets > would be the same. Usually they are the same. I'd have expected the outer pair to run the 100s and the inner pair the 96s or all 100s, not 1+3,2+4 like that. > > Anyway, put the cleaned out carbs back on, and the bike still didn't > start. Took the plugs out which appeared wet, implying that the cylinders > were flooded(?) probably from trying to start the bike. > Cleaned of the plugs and reinserted them. Pressed the started, got a > couple of backfires, then back to nothing again[1]. Took the plugs out, > which were wet again. > You have got the plug leads back on the correct plugs haven't you. If you have them crossed up, the plugs will spark, but not at the correct time and you will get an occaisional backfire. Usually paired 1+4,2+3 > The bike turns over, but won't make any attempt to catch, so I've left the > bike with the battery on charge. > > So, is the flooding why the bike won't start, and how do I clear the > cylinders? > Remove the plugs, ground the HT leads -well away from the plug holes- turn engine on starter for a few seconds. > [1]Also tried with the choke off and throttle fully open, as heard this > helps get more air in with flooded cylinders? Yes and no. Mostly yes. With the plugs in, there will be a pressure drop as the piston descends, which will draw fuel. Nowhere near as much as when the engine is running, but some fuel will get through. > > -- > Dynamic - 'Faster than Spete' > ZZR 250(x2), TZR 125, VF 500(In bits), SG350, GSXR400 GK71F > MIRTTH#23 SH#5 -- ?

	#6
Grimly Curmudgeon	Re: Clearing Flooded Cylinders... On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:02:53 -0000, "Dynamic" <Phill@ward6056.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: >Why are 1 and 3 running on 100, while >2 and 4 are running on 96? It can happen, because of airbox flow characteristics, that air distribution to the carb intakes isn't even. I've come across ones where the middle two are running ok, but the outer two are a bit on the airstarved side and have slightly smaller jets as a consequence. Yours seems to be arse about tit, so I wonder if someone has swapped over the jets when rebuilding the carbs. -- Dave GS 850 x2 / SE 6a SbS#6 DIAABTCOD#16 APOSTLE#6 FUB#3 FUB KotL OSOS#12? UKRMMA#19 COSOC#10

	#7
Muck	Re: Clearing Flooded Cylinders... On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:31:35 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: > On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:02:53 -0000, "Dynamic" > <Phill@ward6056.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: > >>Why are 1 and 3 running on 100, while 2 and 4 are running on 96? > > It can happen, because of airbox flow characteristics, that air > distribution to the carb intakes isn't even. I've come across ones where > the middle two are running ok, but the outer two are a bit on the > airstarved side and have slightly smaller jets as a consequence. > > Yours seems to be arse about tit, so I wonder if someone has swapped > over the jets when rebuilding the carbs. I thought it was more to do with the inboard cylinders getting less cooling, so are setup with a slightly richer mix to keep things nice and cool. -- Muck Bandit 600n; CG125(MSOHPR); DS#1 ; DOMO# ; SH#2 "There's no place like ::1" Remove _TEETH_ to e-mail