Monet/Mochet

Picture from this week's La Vie de la Moto:

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pattle/monet.jpg

No, there are some people who, on seeing a picture like this, would
immediately want one... but not me, oh no.

After all, it's not going to be practical, is it? And while the rear
end wouldn't necessarily have to be a Monet-Goyon S3, almost any of the
various Villiers 98 powered bikes would do, there's still the front end
to get. I mean, Mochet Velocars (assuming that's what it is) aren't
exactly thick on the ground these days... and if you did find one, the
Classic Vehicle Thought Police (TM) are likely to start frowning more
than somewhat if you started sawing one up. No, it would have to be
built from scratch. OK, the bodywork's not going to be that hard, no
double curvatures to worry about. But there's still the front axle -
you'd need someone who knew about building very lightweight Ackermann
steering sets...

er...

Austin...

supposing I had /a friend/ who wanted to build a lightweight Ackermann
steering set, what would be the best way for him to go about it?

--
Andrew

Naqerj wrote:
> Picture from this week's La Vie de la Moto:
>
> http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pattle/monet.jpg
>
> No, there are some people who, on seeing a picture like this, would
> immediately want one... but not me, oh no.
>
> After all, it's not going to be practical, is it? And while the rear
> end wouldn't necessarily have to be a Monet-Goyon S3, almost any of
> the various Villiers 98 powered bikes would do, there's still the
> front end to get. I mean, Mochet Velocars (assuming that's what it
> is) aren't exactly thick on the ground these days... and if you did
> find one, the Classic Vehicle Thought Police (TM) are likely to start
> frowning more than somewhat if you started sawing one up. No, it

Worth doing just to get them apoplectic.

> would have to be built from scratch. OK, the bodywork's not going to
> be that hard, no double curvatures to worry about. But there's still
> the front axle - you'd need someone who knew about building very
> lightweight Ackermann steering sets...
>
> er...
>
> Austin...
>
> supposing I had /a friend/ who wanted to build a lightweight Ackermann
> steering set, what would be the best way for him to go about it?

Sir wants a nice Velorex, sir does.

http://www.microcarmuseum.com/tour/velorex.html

--
platypus

"Merely corroborative detail, intended to
give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise
bald and unconvincing narrative."

In article <d7ednSHK3ZeVhJnbnZ2dnUVZ8vSdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk >,
pattle@globalnet.co.invalid (Naqerj) wrote:

> supposing I had /a friend/ who wanted to build a lightweight
> Ackermann steering set, what would be the best way for him to go
> about it?

Contact a car museum. The early cyclecars and bubble cars were as
lightly built as possible.

Ken Young

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Naqerj
<pattle@globalnet.co.invalid> saying something like:

>supposing I had /a friend/ who wanted to build a lightweight Ackermann
>steering set, what would be the best way for him to go about it?

Look at quad bikes - I don't know for certain, but I'd be surprised if
at least some of them didn't have Ackerman geometry.

On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:57:51 +0000, Naqerj
<pattle@globalnet.co.invalid> wrote:

>supposing I had /a friend/ who wanted to build a lightweight Ackermann
>steering set, what would be the best way for him to go about it?

I know what Ackerman geometry is and how it's achieved, but what's an
Ackerman steering set?

--
-Pip

platypus wrote:
> Naqerj wrote:
>> the Classic Vehicle Thought Police (TM) are likely to start
>> frowning more than somewhat if you started sawing one up. No, it
>
> Worth doing just to get them apoplectic.

Except the Velocar is such a ridiculous vehicle in its own right that,
in the unlikely event of finding one, I'd probably want to keep it as is.

OTOH, if I should find two of them...

>
> Sir wants a nice Velorex, sir does.
>

Yes, I've long been tempted by the idea of having a Velorex - even
better, however, would be the passenger-carrying model of Tri Moto Bert.

http://www.motomag.com/spip/IMG/jpg/tri_bert_web.jpg

--
Andrew

Naqerj wrote:
> platypus wrote:
>> Naqerj wrote:
>>> the Classic Vehicle Thought Police (TM) are likely to start
>>> frowning more than somewhat if you started sawing one up. No, it
>>
>> Worth doing just to get them apoplectic.
>
> Except the Velocar is such a ridiculous vehicle in its own right that,
> in the unlikely event of finding one, I'd probably want to keep it as
> is.
>
> OTOH, if I should find two of them...
>
>
>>
>> Sir wants a nice Velorex, sir does.
>>
>
> Yes, I've long been tempted by the idea of having a Velorex - even
> better, however, would be the passenger-carrying model of Tri Moto
> Bert.
>
> http://www.motomag.com/spip/IMG/jpg/tri_bert_web.jpg

<medical need>

--
platypus

"Merely corroborative detail, intended to
give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise
bald and unconvincing narrative."

"Pip Luscher" <pips.computer@spammers.foad.ntlworld.co.uk> wrote in message
news:gvra031vvr0ibmd1522e8hegvmdau2tvac@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:57:51 +0000, Naqerj
> <pattle@globalnet.co.invalid> wrote:
>
> >supposing I had /a friend/ who wanted to build a lightweight Ackermann
> >steering set, what would be the best way for him to go about it?
>
> I know what Ackerman geometry is and how it's achieved, but what's an
> Ackerman steering set?
>
>
Enough bits to make it work? :-)

Oily

On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 21:12:59 GMT, "platypus"
<monotreme@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>Sir wants a nice Velorex, sir does.
>
>http://www.microcarmuseum.com/tour/velorex.html

Bloody hell, I had no idea there were so many models from so many
countries.

Even the States had them. Did the Americans look upon them as a kind
of lifeboat one kept in the Chevy's boot (sorry, trunk)?

Not sure I'd want to drive one regularly, but they are fascinating. I
rather like the Heath Robinson-ness of some of them.

--
-Pip

Pip Luscher wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 21:12:59 GMT, "platypus"
> <monotreme@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Sir wants a nice Velorex, sir does.
>>
>> http://www.microcarmuseum.com/tour/velorex.html
>
> Bloody hell, I had no idea there were so many models from so many
> countries.
>
> Even the States had them. Did the Americans look upon them as a kind
> of lifeboat one kept in the Chevy's boot (sorry, trunk)?
>
> Not sure I'd want to drive one regularly, but they are fascinating. I
> rather like the Heath Robinson-ness of some of them.

Wouldn't be terrifyingly fast, but it would be a great "bike" for really
crap weather.

--
platypus

"Merely corroborative detail, intended to
give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise
bald and unconvincing narrative."

On or around Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:57:51 +0000, Naqerj
<pattle@globalnet.co.invalid> enlightened us thusly:
>Austin...
>
>supposing I had /a friend/ who wanted to build a lightweight Ackermann
>steering set, what would be the best way for him to go about it?

how lightweight?

The axle on my tandems takes a bit more than half the weight of a tandem,
but it also has triangulation in 2 planes.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
>> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

Pip Luscher wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:57:51 +0000, Naqerj
> <pattle@globalnet.co.invalid> wrote:
>
>> supposing I had /a friend/ who wanted to build a lightweight Ackermann
>> steering set, what would be the best way for him to go about it?
>
> I know what Ackerman geometry is and how it's achieved, but what's an
> Ackerman steering set?
>

A vague collection of words meant to describe the steering mechanism on
that trike. If I was going to make one (I'm not [1]) it wouldn't be the
geometry of it that was the problem, but getting readily available bits
to make it from, just the sort of bits that Austin & his father must use
on their trikes.

[1] I've four other equally stupid projects under construction, so I'm
not starting another. Well only two of them are stupid vehicles: an MTP
invalid carriage with a little JAP engine, and a Pashley/Solex
triporteur. The other two (a James carrier autocycle and a Three Spires
Petro-Cycle) are only stupid in that I have so few usable parts of the
original machines to start from.

--
Andrew

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 18:15:04 +0100, Naqerj
<pattle@globalnet.co.invalid> wrote:

>Pip Luscher wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:57:51 +0000, Naqerj
>> <pattle@globalnet.co.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> supposing I had /a friend/ who wanted to build a lightweight Ackermann
>>> steering set, what would be the best way for him to go about it?
>>
>> I know what Ackerman geometry is and how it's achieved, but what's an
>> Ackerman steering set?
>>
>
>A vague collection of words meant to describe the steering mechanism on
>that trike. If I was going to make one (I'm not [1]) it wouldn't be the
>geometry of it that was the problem, but getting readily available bits
>to make it from, just the sort of bits that Austin & his father must use
>on their trikes.
>
>[1] I've four other equally stupid projects under construction, so I'm
>not starting another. Well only two of them are stupid vehicles: an MTP
>invalid carriage with a little JAP engine, and a Pashley/Solex
>triporteur. The other two (a James carrier autocycle and a Three Spires
>Petro-Cycle) are only stupid in that I have so few usable parts of the
>original machines to start from.

Ah.

<fx: world goes wibbly-wobbly to a bit of nostalgic recollection>

I recall when the local Halfords had rows of shelves of bits for cars,
like swivel joints and such. I itched to buy stuff to build something,
but knew deep i my heart that I'd never do it.

</wgww>

Nowadays they seem to mostly sell smelly things to hang off mirrors
and wheel trims.

--
-Pip

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Pip Luscher
<pips.computer@spammers.foad.ntlworld.co.uk> typed
>
>Nowadays they seem to mostly sell smelly things to hang off mirrors
>and wheel trims.

Wouldn't they rattle around a bit when you drive off? And they're not
going to make the inside of the car smell nice if they're down there.

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - Podium Placed Ducati Race Engineer as featured in
Performance Bikes and Fast Bikes

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
SBS#39 OMF#6 Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 (Falling apart) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"
Suzuki TS250 "The Africa Single" Yamaha Vmax Honda ST1100 wiv trailer

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:32:00 GMT, Pip Luscher
<pips.computer@spammers.foad.ntlworld.co.uk>
wrote in <953j031g0j993v8fab6p34ofvfs8670pgf@4ax.com>:

><fx: world goes wibbly-wobbly to a bit of nostalgic recollection>

> I recall when the local Halfords had rows of shelves of bits for cars,
> like swivel joints and such. I itched to buy stuff to build something,
> but knew deep i my heart that I'd never do it.

></wgww>

I stopped on the way out tonight, with a visiting former
colleague, to look at a Formula Student (Honda 600) race-car that's been
emplaced in an atrium where before stood a Handley Page Victor (IIRC)
nose-gear. On close inspection, the number of bits that were missing
(e.g. the crankshaft) were overwhelmed by the parts still accessible, like
all the suspension joints and shock-absorbers...

--
Ivan Reid, School of Engineering & Design, _____________ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Ivan.Reid@[brunel.ac.uk|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
GSX600F, RG250WD "You Porsche. Me pass!" DoD #484 JKLO#003, 005
WP7# 3000 LC Unit #2368 (tinlc) UKMC#00009 BOTAFOT#16 UKRMMA#7 (Hon)
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".

	#1
Naqerj	Monet/Mochet Picture from this week's La Vie de la Moto: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pattle/monet.jpg No, there are some people who, on seeing a picture like this, would immediately want one... but not me, oh no. After all, it's not going to be practical, is it? And while the rear end wouldn't necessarily have to be a Monet-Goyon S3, almost any of the various Villiers 98 powered bikes would do, there's still the front end to get. I mean, Mochet Velocars (assuming that's what it is) aren't exactly thick on the ground these days... and if you did find one, the Classic Vehicle Thought Police (TM) are likely to start frowning more than somewhat if you started sawing one up. No, it would have to be built from scratch. OK, the bodywork's not going to be that hard, no double curvatures to worry about. But there's still the front axle - you'd need someone who knew about building very lightweight Ackermann steering sets... er... Austin... supposing I had /a friend/ who wanted to build a lightweight Ackermann steering set, what would be the best way for him to go about it? -- Andrew

	#2
platypus	Re: Monet/Mochet Naqerj wrote: > Picture from this week's La Vie de la Moto: > > http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pattle/monet.jpg > > No, there are some people who, on seeing a picture like this, would > immediately want one... but not me, oh no. > > After all, it's not going to be practical, is it? And while the rear > end wouldn't necessarily have to be a Monet-Goyon S3, almost any of > the various Villiers 98 powered bikes would do, there's still the > front end to get. I mean, Mochet Velocars (assuming that's what it > is) aren't exactly thick on the ground these days... and if you did > find one, the Classic Vehicle Thought Police (TM) are likely to start > frowning more than somewhat if you started sawing one up. No, it Worth doing just to get them apoplectic. > would have to be built from scratch. OK, the bodywork's not going to > be that hard, no double curvatures to worry about. But there's still > the front axle - you'd need someone who knew about building very > lightweight Ackermann steering sets... > > er... > > Austin... > > supposing I had /a friend/ who wanted to build a lightweight Ackermann > steering set, what would be the best way for him to go about it? Sir wants a nice Velorex, sir does. http://www.microcarmuseum.com/tour/velorex.html -- platypus "Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative."

	#3
kenney@cix.compulink.co.uk	Re: Monet/Mochet In article <d7ednSHK3ZeVhJnbnZ2dnUVZ8vSdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk >, pattle@globalnet.co.invalid (Naqerj) wrote: > supposing I had /a friend/ who wanted to build a lightweight > Ackermann steering set, what would be the best way for him to go > about it? Contact a car museum. The early cyclecars and bubble cars were as lightly built as possible. Ken Young

	#4
Grimly Curmudgeon	Re: Monet/Mochet We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Naqerj <pattle@globalnet.co.invalid> saying something like: >supposing I had /a friend/ who wanted to build a lightweight Ackermann >steering set, what would be the best way for him to go about it? Look at quad bikes - I don't know for certain, but I'd be surprised if at least some of them didn't have Ackerman geometry.

	#5
Pip Luscher	Re: Monet/Mochet On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:57:51 +0000, Naqerj <pattle@globalnet.co.invalid> wrote: >supposing I had /a friend/ who wanted to build a lightweight Ackermann >steering set, what would be the best way for him to go about it? I know what Ackerman geometry is and how it's achieved, but what's an Ackerman steering set? -- -Pip

	#6
Naqerj	Re: Monet/Mochet platypus wrote: > Naqerj wrote: >> the Classic Vehicle Thought Police (TM) are likely to start >> frowning more than somewhat if you started sawing one up. No, it > > Worth doing just to get them apoplectic. Except the Velocar is such a ridiculous vehicle in its own right that, in the unlikely event of finding one, I'd probably want to keep it as is. OTOH, if I should find two of them... > > Sir wants a nice Velorex, sir does. > Yes, I've long been tempted by the idea of having a Velorex - even better, however, would be the passenger-carrying model of Tri Moto Bert. http://www.motomag.com/spip/IMG/jpg/tri_bert_web.jpg -- Andrew

	#7
platypus	Re: Monet/Mochet Naqerj wrote: > platypus wrote: >> Naqerj wrote: >>> the Classic Vehicle Thought Police (TM) are likely to start >>> frowning more than somewhat if you started sawing one up. No, it >> >> Worth doing just to get them apoplectic. > > Except the Velocar is such a ridiculous vehicle in its own right that, > in the unlikely event of finding one, I'd probably want to keep it as > is. > > OTOH, if I should find two of them... > > >> >> Sir wants a nice Velorex, sir does. >> > > Yes, I've long been tempted by the idea of having a Velorex - even > better, however, would be the passenger-carrying model of Tri Moto > Bert. > > http://www.motomag.com/spip/IMG/jpg/tri_bert_web.jpg <medical need> -- platypus "Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative."

	#8
Oily	Re: Monet/Mochet "Pip Luscher" <pips.computer@spammers.foad.ntlworld.co.uk> wrote in message news:gvra031vvr0ibmd1522e8hegvmdau2tvac@4ax.com... > On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:57:51 +0000, Naqerj > <pattle@globalnet.co.invalid> wrote: > > >supposing I had /a friend/ who wanted to build a lightweight Ackermann > >steering set, what would be the best way for him to go about it? > > I know what Ackerman geometry is and how it's achieved, but what's an > Ackerman steering set? > > Enough bits to make it work? :-) Oily

	#10
platypus	Re: Monet/Mochet Pip Luscher wrote: > On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 21:12:59 GMT, "platypus" > <monotreme@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > >> Sir wants a nice Velorex, sir does. >> >> http://www.microcarmuseum.com/tour/velorex.html > > Bloody hell, I had no idea there were so many models from so many > countries. > > Even the States had them. Did the Americans look upon them as a kind > of lifeboat one kept in the Chevy's boot (sorry, trunk)? > > Not sure I'd want to drive one regularly, but they are fascinating. I > rather like the Heath Robinson-ness of some of them. Wouldn't be terrifyingly fast, but it would be a great "bike" for really crap weather. -- platypus "Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative."

	#11
Austin Shackles	Re: Monet/Mochet On or around Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:57:51 +0000, Naqerj <pattle@globalnet.co.invalid> enlightened us thusly: >Austin... > >supposing I had /a friend/ who wanted to build a lightweight Ackermann >steering set, what would be the best way for him to go about it? how lightweight? The axle on my tandems takes a bit more than half the weight of a tandem, but it also has triangulation in 2 planes. -- Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

	#13
Pip Luscher	Re: Monet/Mochet On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 18:15:04 +0100, Naqerj <pattle@globalnet.co.invalid> wrote: >Pip Luscher wrote: >> On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:57:51 +0000, Naqerj >> <pattle@globalnet.co.invalid> wrote: >> >>> supposing I had /a friend/ who wanted to build a lightweight Ackermann >>> steering set, what would be the best way for him to go about it? >> >> I know what Ackerman geometry is and how it's achieved, but what's an >> Ackerman steering set? >> > >A vague collection of words meant to describe the steering mechanism on >that trike. If I was going to make one (I'm not [1]) it wouldn't be the >geometry of it that was the problem, but getting readily available bits >to make it from, just the sort of bits that Austin & his father must use >on their trikes. > >[1] I've four other equally stupid projects under construction, so I'm >not starting another. Well only two of them are stupid vehicles: an MTP >invalid carriage with a little JAP engine, and a Pashley/Solex >triporteur. The other two (a James carrier autocycle and a Three Spires >Petro-Cycle) are only stupid in that I have so few usable parts of the >original machines to start from. Ah. <fx: world goes wibbly-wobbly to a bit of nostalgic recollection> I recall when the local Halfords had rows of shelves of bits for cars, like swivel joints and such. I itched to buy stuff to build something, but knew deep i my heart that I'd never do it. </wgww> Nowadays they seem to mostly sell smelly things to hang off mirrors and wheel trims. -- -Pip

	#14
Wicked Uncle Nigel	Re: Monet/Mochet Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Pip Luscher <pips.computer@spammers.foad.ntlworld.co.uk> typed > >Nowadays they seem to mostly sell smelly things to hang off mirrors >and wheel trims. Wouldn't they rattle around a bit when you drive off? And they're not going to make the inside of the car smell nice if they're down there. -- Wicked Uncle Nigel - Podium Placed Ducati Race Engineer as featured in Performance Bikes and Fast Bikes WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41 SBS#39 OMF#6 Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner", Honda GL1000K2 (Falling apart) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big" Suzuki TS250 "The Africa Single" Yamaha Vmax Honda ST1100 wiv trailer

	#15
Dr Ivan D. Reid	Re: Monet/Mochet On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:32:00 GMT, Pip Luscher <pips.computer@spammers.foad.ntlworld.co.uk> wrote in <953j031g0j993v8fab6p34ofvfs8670pgf@4ax.com>: ><fx: world goes wibbly-wobbly to a bit of nostalgic recollection> > I recall when the local Halfords had rows of shelves of bits for cars, > like swivel joints and such. I itched to buy stuff to build something, > but knew deep i my heart that I'd never do it. ></wgww> I stopped on the way out tonight, with a visiting former colleague, to look at a Formula Student (Honda 600) race-car that's been emplaced in an atrium where before stood a Handley Page Victor (IIRC) nose-gear. On close inspection, the number of bits that were missing (e.g. the crankshaft) were overwhelmed by the parts still accessible, like all the suspension joints and shock-absorbers... -- Ivan Reid, School of Engineering & Design, _____________ CMS Collaboration, Brunel University. Ivan.Reid@[brunel.ac.uk\|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN GSX600F, RG250WD "You Porsche. Me pass!" DoD #484 JKLO#003, 005 WP7# 3000 LC Unit #2368 (tinlc) UKMC#00009 BOTAFOT#16 UKRMMA#7 (Hon) KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".