YTC#1

Over on uk.comp.sys.sun

(don't worry, very little traffic)

Thread
"Co-operative Bank withdraws support for non-Windows business account
users"

All I want is proof, but they don't seem to be able to grasp the concept
and think I am being awkward :-)

--
XJR1300SP, XJ900F, GSX750W, GS550, GSX250
POTM#1(KoTL), WUSS#1 , YTC#1(bar), OSOS#2(KoTL) , DS#3 , IbW#18 ,Apostle#8
"The internet is a huge and diverse community and not every one is friendly"
http://www.ytc1.co.uk There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

Nidge

YTC#1 <ukrm@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in message
newsan.2004.03.06.12.06.06.922312@ytc1.co.uk...
> Over on uk.comp.sys.sun
>
> (don't worry, very little traffic)
>
> Thread
> "Co-operative Bank withdraws support for non-Windows business account
> users"
>
> All I want is proof, but they don't seem to be able to grasp the concept
> and think I am being awkward :-)


Oh, sorry, misread your request.
I thought you *were* being awkward so I went to help you wind them up.
Subtly mind, subtly ;-P


--
Nidge
ZX6R J2 Stunning in zit yellow. KX 125 MX 'I'm snot green -fly ME'. A few
bits of CB500S in Norwegian Parrot blue. BOTAFOT#63

'Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand'.
Homer (Simpson).

YTC#1

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 16:50:25 +0000, Nidge wrote:

>
> YTC#1 <ukrm@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in message
> newsan.2004.03.06.12.06.06.922312@ytc1.co.uk...
>> Over on uk.comp.sys.sun
>>
>> (don't worry, very little traffic)
>>
>> Thread
>> "Co-operative Bank withdraws support for non-Windows business account
>> users"
>>
>> All I want is proof, but they don't seem to be able to grasp the concept
>> and think I am being awkward :-)
>
>
> Oh, sorry, misread your request.
> I thought you *were* being awkward so I went to help you wind them up.
> Subtly mind, subtly ;-P
>

Well, ok , I am :-)


--
XJR1300SP, XJ900F, GSX750W, GS550, GSX250
POTM#1(KoTL), WUSS#1 , YTC#1(bar), OSOS#2(KoTL) , DS#3 , IbW#18 ,Apostle#8
"The internet is a huge and diverse community and not every one is friendly"
http://www.ytc1.co.uk There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

Champ

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 12:06:06 +0000, YTC#1 <ukrm@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:

>they think I am being awkward

<shcoked>

--
Champ
GSX-R 1000, GPz 750 turbo, ZX7RR Endurance Racer x 2
GYASB#0 BotToS#2 BOTAFO(T|F)#35 WG*#1 DFV#8
Team UKRM Racing : www.team-ukrm.com

Pip

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 18:37:01 +0000, Champ <ukrm@champ.org.uk> wrote:

><shcoked>

<makes note>

That's quietly building up a fire for the night, right?

--
Pip, Hairy Gfedcker. RF 900RR, Ruff and Rattly.
WS* DFWAG#0 IbW#27* DIAABTCOD#15 GP#0 EKP FUB#4 MKA+E#3
ANORAK#8 MIRTTH#15 BOTAFOT/F#47/34a BONY#13 KotMIB# <space>
UKRMRM#14 TWA#2

YTC#1

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 18:37:01 +0000, Champ wrote:

> On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 12:06:06 +0000, YTC#1 <ukrm@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>they think I am being awkward
>
> <shcoked>

I don't know what makes them think that :-)

--
XJR1300SP, XJ900F, GSX750W, GS550, GSX250
POTM#1(KoTL), WUSS#1 , YTC#1(bar), OSOS#2(KoTL) , DS#3 , IbW#18 ,Apostle#8
"The internet is a huge and diverse community and not every one is friendly"
http://www.ytc1.co.uk There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

dwb

"YTC#1" <ukrm@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in message
newsan.2004.03.06.20.37.28.179272@ytc1.co.uk...
> thats exactly the sort of thing I am fighting against. People who make up
> stats or facts and decide that they are real. People then start to
> believe them and quote them.
>
> http://www.onestat.com/html/aboutus_pressbox26.html
>
> Its *not* 99% ... Ok ! :-)

95%... not a huge difference really is it?

Interesting - the sites I work on are averaging 93% IE.

Nigel Eaton

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Jaques
d'Alltrades <creaking.gate@foobar.zetnet.co.uk> typed
>
>MS might claim 99% of the market. Why not do a poll on here, and in The
>Shed? I think you'd be surprised how many use other browsers.
>

Are you *seriously* holding UKRMers and the Sheddi up as being in any
way representative of the rest of the planet?

Seek help.
--
Nigel - No longer worse than Platypus
WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL)
ZZR1100, Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2

Jaques d'Alltrades

The message <c2dd47$1s2e8d$1@ID-114060.news.uni-berlin.de>
from "dwb" <parc_erom@crossdata.co.uk> contains these words:

> > Its *not* 99% ... Ok ! :-)

> 95%... not a huge difference really is it?

> Interesting - the sites I work on are averaging 93% IE.

How many of those are other browsers pretending to be IE?

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Sean Doherty

On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 20:42:49 -0000, "dwb" <parc_erom@crossdata.co.uk>
wrote:

>
>Interesting - the sites I work on are averaging 93% IE.
>

Here's the stats for hexmad.com for March:

1 52.02% MSIE 6.0
2 12.79% Google
3 10.71% Other [1]
4 9.95% Mozilla/5
5 6.23% Mozilla/4
6 4.48% MSIE 5.5
7 3.06% MSIE 5.0
8 0.66% Mozilla
9 0.11% Opera

[1] Mostly bots that are not google.
--
http://hexmad.com
f650|b12|Ri

Jaques d'Alltrades

The message <6zxOv+jJolSAJwnQ@rcav8r.demon.co.uk>
from Nigel Eaton <nigele@rcav8r.demon.co.uk> contains these words:
> Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Jaques
> d'Alltrades <creaking.gate@foobar.zetnet.co.uk> typed
> >
> >MS might claim 99% of the market. Why not do a poll on here, and in The
> >Shed? I think you'd be surprised how many use other browsers.
> >

> Are you *seriously* holding UKRMers and the Sheddi up as being in any
> way representative of the rest of the planet?

> Seek help.

HELP! Anne!

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

sweller

Sean Doherty wrote:

> > Interesting - the sites I work on are averaging 93% IE.
>
> Here's the stats for hexmad.com for March:
>
> 1 52.02% MSIE 6.0
> 2 12.79% Google
> 3 10.71% Other [1]
> 4 9.95% Mozilla/5
> 5 6.23% Mozilla/4

Your hexmad site is for predominately techie types, what would the stats
from, say, Argos be like?

--
Simon

Brighton | MYSOB: http://www.sweller.co.uk/sob/
England | MZSOB: http://www.mztech.fsnet.co.uk/

MikeR

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:56:16 +0000, sweller wrote:
> Sean Doherty wrote:
>
>> > Interesting - the sites I work on are averaging 93% IE.
>>
>> Here's the stats for hexmad.com for March:
>>
>> 1 52.02% MSIE 6.0
>> 2 12.79% Google
>> 3 10.71% Other [1]
>> 4 9.95% Mozilla/5
>> 5 6.23% Mozilla/4
>
> Your hexmad site is for predominately techie types, what would the stats
> from, say, Argos be like?

You'd have to queue for half an hour to collect the statistics from a
bored, surly teenager, then assemble them over the course of an
afternoon, and even when you'd done that they'd look nothing like they
did in the catalog.

--
MikeR | NX650X | CB500T | MIB#23

YTC#1

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 23:42:57 +0000, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:

> The message <c2dd47$1s2e8d$1@ID-114060.news.uni-berlin.de>
> from "dwb" <parc_erom@crossdata.co.uk> contains these words:
>
>> > Its *not* 99% ... Ok ! :-)
>
>> 95%... not a huge difference really is it?
>
>> Interesting - the sites I work on are averaging 93% IE.
>
> How many of those are other browsers pretending to be IE?

Good call :-)

--
XJR1300SP, XJ900F, GSX750W, GS550, GSX250
POTM#1(KoTL), WUSS#1 , YTC#1(bar), OSOS#2(KoTL) , DS#3 , IbW#18 ,Apostle#8
"The internet is a huge and diverse community and not every one is friendly"
http://www.ytc1.co.uk There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

Jaques d'Alltrades

The message <blok40h561ab3uir30jgtcslc3mg4e5kti@4ax.com>
from Ben <ukrm@bensales.com> contains these words:

> >MS might claim 99% of the market. Why not do a poll on here, and in The
> >Shed? I think you'd be surprised how many use other browsers.

> Doesn't matter. When you're selling something or providing a service
> it makes sense to provide it to the biggest group of people. In
> browser terms, that's IE users.

> I'm not saying this from a pro-IE point of view, I'm saying it from a
> "I work as a web developer and that's life" point of view.
> 90-whatever % of browsers are IE so if you want 90-whatever percent of
> people to be able to use your website perfectly you write it so it
> works perfectly on IE. If it was Netscape or Opera with that market
> share then they would be the target browsers.

I try (lots of people tell me that) to make anything I write viewable in
a range of browsers. One day I'll get round to tidyng up all the earlier
mistakes in my wibble - when I get the right shaped tuit....

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Sean Doherty

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:56:16 +0000, "sweller" <ng@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:

>Your hexmad site is for predominately techie types, what would the stats
>from, say, Argos be like?

I know that. I'm still amazed by the IE presence, though.
--
http://hexmad.com
f650|b12|Ri

Champ

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:37:30 +0000, YTC#1 <ukrm@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:

>> And given the IE has 99% of the market I can understand a
>> company choosing to ignore any other browser. I do it myself.
>
>
>thats exactly the sort of thing I am fighting against. People who make up
>stats or facts and decide that they are real. People then start to
>believe them and quote them.
>
>http://www.onestat.com/html/aboutus_pressbox26.html
>
>Its *not* 99% ... Ok ! :-)

It's 100% on the site my company runs. Cos that's all we support :-)
--
Champ : Old enough to know better
GSX-R 1000, GPz 750 turbo, ZX-7RR Endurance Racer x 2
GYASB#0;BotToS#2;BOTAFO(T|F)#35;UKRMFBC#2;IHABWTMM J#3;MCT#5;WG*#1;BONY#40;DFV#8;IbW#17;SBS#34;BHaLC# 1
Racing : www.team-ukrm.co.uk. Vanity Publishing : www.champ.org.uk

Ben

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:08:08 GMT, Jaques d'Alltrades
<creaking.gate@foobar.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

>The message <blok40h561ab3uir30jgtcslc3mg4e5kti@4ax.com>
>from Ben <ukrm@bensales.com> contains these words:
>
>> >MS might claim 99% of the market. Why not do a poll on here, and in The
>> >Shed? I think you'd be surprised how many use other browsers.
>
>> Doesn't matter. When you're selling something or providing a service
>> it makes sense to provide it to the biggest group of people. In
>> browser terms, that's IE users.
>
>> I'm not saying this from a pro-IE point of view, I'm saying it from a
>> "I work as a web developer and that's life" point of view.
>> 90-whatever % of browsers are IE so if you want 90-whatever percent of
>> people to be able to use your website perfectly you write it so it
>> works perfectly on IE. If it was Netscape or Opera with that market
>> share then they would be the target browsers.
>
>I try (lots of people tell me that) to make anything I write viewable in
>a range of browsers. One day I'll get round to tidyng up all the earlier
>mistakes in my wibble - when I get the right shaped tuit....

So do I, but sometime it's not always possible. Something will behave
one way in one browser and differently in another and you just have to
got with whichever is the most popular.
--
GSXR1000 DIAABTCOD#11 BOTAFOT#75 ex-two#19
"We take these risks, not to escape from life,
but to prevent life escaping from us."
http://www.bensales.com

YTC#1

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 12:43:45 +0000, Champ wrote:

> On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:37:30 +0000, YTC#1 <ukrm@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>> And given the IE has 99% of the market I can understand a
>>> company choosing to ignore any other browser. I do it myself.
>>
>>
>>thats exactly the sort of thing I am fighting against. People who make up
>>stats or facts and decide that they are real. People then start to
>>believe them and quote them.
>>
>>http://www.onestat.com/html/aboutus_pressbox26.html
>>
>>Its *not* 99% ... Ok ! :-)
>
> It's 100% on the site my company runs. Cos that's all we support :-)

Lost my businesss then :-)

Mark and Sparks used to be a well know IE only site, but I have just
noticed they have given in to pressure and I can order from them if I want
now.

So, looks like you are working in the past :-)

--
XJR1300SP, XJ900F, GSX750W, GS550, GSX250
POTM#1(KoTL), WUSS#1 , YTC#1(bar), OSOS#2(KoTL) , DS#3 , IbW#18 ,Apostle#8
"The internet is a huge and diverse community and not every one is friendly"
http://www.ytc1.co.uk There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

YTC#1

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 14:49:07 +0000, Ben wrote:

> On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:08:08 GMT, Jaques d'Alltrades
> <creaking.gate@foobar.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>The message <blok40h561ab3uir30jgtcslc3mg4e5kti@4ax.com>
>>from Ben <ukrm@bensales.com> contains these words:
>>
>>> >MS might claim 99% of the market. Why not do a poll on here, and in The
>>> >Shed? I think you'd be surprised how many use other browsers.
>>
>>> Doesn't matter. When you're selling something or providing a service
>>> it makes sense to provide it to the biggest group of people. In
>>> browser terms, that's IE users.
>>
>>> I'm not saying this from a pro-IE point of view, I'm saying it from a
>>> "I work as a web developer and that's life" point of view.
>>> 90-whatever % of browsers are IE so if you want 90-whatever percent of
>>> people to be able to use your website perfectly you write it so it
>>> works perfectly on IE. If it was Netscape or Opera with that market
>>> share then they would be the target browsers.
>>
>>I try (lots of people tell me that) to make anything I write viewable in
>>a range of browsers. One day I'll get round to tidyng up all the earlier
>>mistakes in my wibble - when I get the right shaped tuit....
>
> So do I, but sometime it's not always possible. Something will behave
> one way in one browser and differently in another and you just have to
> got with whichever is the most popular.

Now, back in programming days , it was considered better programming to
work to standards, this made stuff easily transferable and would be a
reduced cost on the company changing OS/Hardware.

Sadly I see standards have slipped somewhat.

--
XJR1300SP, XJ900F, GSX750W, GS550, GSX250
POTM#1(KoTL), WUSS#1 , YTC#1(bar), OSOS#2(KoTL) , DS#3 , IbW#18 ,Apostle#8
"The internet is a huge and diverse community and not every one is friendly"
http://www.ytc1.co.uk There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

Champ

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:12:23 +0000, YTC#1 <ukrm@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:

>On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 12:43:45 +0000, Champ wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:37:30 +0000, YTC#1 <ukrm@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>> And given the IE has 99% of the market I can understand a
>>>> company choosing to ignore any other browser. I do it myself.
>>>
>>>
>>>thats exactly the sort of thing I am fighting against. People who make up
>>>stats or facts and decide that they are real. People then start to
>>>believe them and quote them.
>>>
>>>http://www.onestat.com/html/aboutus_pressbox26.html
>>>
>>>Its *not* 99% ... Ok ! :-)
>>
>> It's 100% on the site my company runs. Cos that's all we support :-)
>
>Lost my businesss then :-)

Unless you're an IFA, you wouldn't want to use our site.

Our users are generally not the slightest bit interested in
technology. We send them a CD with IE & Adobe and other supporting
software on it, just to try and get a base platform.
--
Champ : Old enough to know better
GSX-R 1000, GPz 750 turbo, ZX-7RR Endurance Racer x 2
GYASB#0;BotToS#2;BOTAFO(T|F)#35;UKRMFBC#2;IHABWTMM J#3;MCT#5;WG*#1;BONY#40;DFV#8;IbW#17;SBS#34;BHaLC# 1
Racing : www.team-ukrm.co.uk. Vanity Publishing : www.champ.org.uk

Ben

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:14:06 +0000, YTC#1 <ukrm@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:

>Now, back in programming days , it was considered better programming to
>work to standards, this made stuff easily transferable and would be a
>reduced cost on the company changing OS/Hardware.
>
>Sadly I see standards have slipped somewhat.

I write pure HTML 4 Transitional normally. Problem is when different
browsers render that standard in different ways. You then have to
choose to differ from the standard to what looks best to most of your
customer base.
--
GSXR1000 DIAABTCOD#11 BOTAFOT#75 ex-two#19
"We take these risks, not to escape from life,
but to prevent life escaping from us."
http://www.bensales.com

Zymurgy

YTC#1 <> wrote
> Ben wrote:
> > Jaques d'Alltrade wrote:
> >> Ben contains these words:
> >>
> >>> >MS might claim 99% of the market. Why not do a poll on here, and in The
> >>> >Shed? I think you'd be surprised how many use other browsers.
> >>
> >>I try (lots of people tell me that) to make anything I write viewable in
> >>a range of browsers. One day I'll get round to tidyng up all the earlier
> >>mistakes in my wibble - when I get the right shaped tuit....
> >
> > So do I, but sometime it's not always possible. Something will behave
> > one way in one browser and differently in another and you just have to
> > got with whichever is the most popular.
>
> Now, back in programming days , it was considered better programming to
> work to standards, this made stuff easily transferable and would be a
> reduced cost on the company changing OS/Hardware.
>
> Sadly I see standards have slipped somewhat.

Mate, you're pissing upwind here.

Mind you don't get your feet wet ;-)

Cheers

Paul (via Konqueror)

Jaques d'Alltrades

The message <jhdm40dte18hpee8qpmlut6pgdhdjh6hde@4ax.com>
from Ben <ukrm@bensales.com> contains these words:

> >I try (lots of people tell me that) to make anything I write viewable in
> >a range of browsers. One day I'll get round to tidyng up all the earlier
> >mistakes in my wibble - when I get the right shaped tuit....

> So do I, but sometime it's not always possible. Something will behave
> one way in one browser and differently in another and you just have to
> got with whichever is the most popular.

I go with the ones which are standards-compliant, and if the one which
isn't happens to be IE (as usually it is), tough.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Jaques d'Alltrades

The message <pan.2004.03.07.15.12.23.268204@ytc1.co.uk>
from YTC#1 <ukrm@ytc1.co.uk> contains these words:
> On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 12:43:45 +0000, Champ wrote:

(IE)

> > It's 100% on the site my company runs. Cos that's all we support :-)

> Lost my businesss then :-)

And mine.

> Mark and Sparks used to be a well know IE only site, but I have just
> noticed they have given in to pressure and I can order from them if I want
> now.

It's good to know that pressure works. (Maplin now send me their
news-sheet in plain text after I whinged about HTML in mail.)

> So, looks like you are working in the past :-)

I don't know if I care or not - might I be a customer?

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Jaques d'Alltrades

The message <pan.2004.03.07.15.14.05.834123@ytc1.co.uk>
from YTC#1 <ukrm@ytc1.co.uk> contains these words:

> >>I try (lots of people tell me that) to make anything I write viewable in
> >>a range of browsers. One day I'll get round to tidyng up all the earlier
> >>mistakes in my wibble - when I get the right shaped tuit....
> >
> > So do I, but sometime it's not always possible. Something will behave
> > one way in one browser and differently in another and you just have to
> > got with whichever is the most popular.

> Now, back in programming days , it was considered better programming to
> work to standards, this made stuff easily transferable and would be a
> reduced cost on the company changing OS/Hardware.

> Sadly I see standards have slipped somewhat.

It's not so much that they've slipped: someone saw an opportunity
(late!) to turn the internet into their own personal playground.

Fortunately, enough people wouldn't play.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Jaques d'Alltrades

The message <ftgm409guguk9c9noudv6ab5a1ogfd8nob@4ax.com>
from Champ <news@champ.org.uk> contains these words:

> >Lost my businesss then :-)

> Unless you're an IFA, you wouldn't want to use our site.

> Our users are generally not the slightest bit interested in
> technology. We send them a CD with IE & Adobe and other supporting
> software on it, just to try and get a base platform.

Wassan IFA?

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Paul Corfield

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:47:34 GMT, Jaques d'Alltrades
<creaking.gate@foobar.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:


>Wassan IFA?

I'm guessing but probably Independent Financial Advisor
--
Paul C - "the big camp bastard" (tm d.a.r.s.y)
VFR800 | ZX6R | R1150GS
BOD#5, two#4, BOTAFOT#23, BOTAFOF#4, URMSBC#09, COFF#09
Admits to working for London Underground!

Champ

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 21:18:31 +0000, Paul Corfield
<aooy65@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:47:34 GMT, Jaques d'Alltrades
><creaking.gate@foobar.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>Wassan IFA?
>
>I'm guessing but probably Independent Financial Advisor

You guessed correctly, young Jedi.
--
Champ
GSX-R 1000, GPz 750 turbo, ZX7RR Endurance Racer x 2
GYASB#0 BotToS#2 BOTAFO(T|F)#35 WG*#1 DFV#8
Team UKRM Racing : www.team-ukrm.com

Champ

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:44:47 GMT, Jaques d'Alltrades
<creaking.gate@foobar.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

>> Sadly I see standards have slipped somewhat.
>
>It's not so much that they've slipped: someone saw an opportunity
>(late!) to turn the internet into their own personal playground.
>
>Fortunately, enough people wouldn't play.

<sigh>

I bet when the Browser Wars were being fought you were still wearing
short trousers.


--
Champ
GSX-R 1000, GPz 750 turbo, ZX7RR Endurance Racer x 2
GYASB#0 BotToS#2 BOTAFO(T|F)#35 WG*#1 DFV#8
Team UKRM Racing : www.team-ukrm.com