Will Dockery

"George Dance" wrote:
>Will Dockery wrote:
>>George Dance wrote:
>
> > > > > My daughter asked me to share this poem (author unknown to either
of us):
> >
> > > > > Haiku are quite easy
> > > > > though sometimes they make no sense;
> > > > > refrigerator.
> >
> > > > San Francisco haiku.
> >
> > > Hmm. Remind me of the first poem I ever memorized. It was from a
> > > Beverley Hillbillies episode in which (for some reason connected with
> > > the Drysdales) a Beat Poet from San Francisco was staying with the
> > > Clampetts.
> >
> > > One day Granny found the poet standing on his head against a wall. He
> > > told her he was meditating; when she asked why he told her (more or
> > > less), "When I meditate, my brains soar." So she explained that it
> > > was sore because all his blood was rushing to it, and pulled him
> > > down.
> >
> > > He was a bit upset, and told her that was how he wrote his poetry.
> > > She asked if he'd written a poem; he told her he had, and recited it
> > > (and this part I've committed to memory):
> >
> > > Blue cheesecake
> > > A silver spoon in the sand
> > > The seaweed barks at me.
> >
> > > So she turned him upside down again, and left him there to write a
> > > better one.
> >
> > Old school television had a grip on the Beat scene, no doubt... the
Addams
> > Family hosted a poetry gathering, while the Munsters took it on down the
> > Highway 61.
> >
> > I'm sitting here with the television blasting on the side like old time
> > radio, and Lucy and Ricky Ricardo are going through the old "handcuffed
by
> > accident" routine (TVLand could do a compilation of these, since it
seems
> > everyone on sitcom tv went through this at least once).
> >
> > An old locksmith from Yonkers is there to set 'em free but is more
> > interested in Ricardo's music, as his wife is a fan... and he says "For
> > Christmas I'll give her a drum."
>
> As soon as I read those lines, I heard Ricky Nelson in my mind.

Yeah, I'd forgotten that Ricky Nelson had a big hit with "She Belongs To Me"
back in the 1960s.

His "Lonesome Town" was a great one, too:

There's a place where lovers go
To cry their troubles away.
And they call it,
Lonesome Town,
Where the broken hearts stay.

You can buy a dream or two
To last you all through the years.
And the only price you pay
Is a heart full of tears.

Goin' down to Lonesome Town,
Where the broken hearts stay.
Goin' down to Lonesome Town,
To cry my troubles away.

In the town of broken dreams,
The streets are filled with regret.
Maybe down in
Lonesome Town,
I can learn to forget.
Maybe down in
Lonesome Town,
I can learn to forget.
Lonesome Town.

> > So, in L&T tradition, what were the chances Dylan was sitting up one
night,
> > smoking weed and writing LMZNL, and the late night reruns playing soft
off
> > to the side is this "I Love Lucy" episode? It would have been about a
decade
> > old at the time, and probably in syndication prime... just a morning
coffee
> > thought to toss out which was of at least a passing Dylan interest.
>
> It's interesting. A while back I was reading some posts on the "Dylan
> ripped off Timrod" controversy, and I read a good article on that; the
> writer came up with a dozen or so other sources that Dylan "ripped
> off" in the same song -

The music is copped, sometimes note-for-note, from such people as BB King
and Bing Crosby... I had a link to a site that plays the original songs, and
they're so close to the songs Dylan "wrote" that they sound like the same
tracks sometimes.

> his point being that the way they've been
> recombined, to say something new, makes them original art. (I doubt
> I'd be able to find the article again, unfortunately.)

I can get hold of it pretty easily since I responded in that thread a few
times... Google "timrod" + "will dockery" and you should get to where you're
looking...

But while the Timrod poetry is public domain and /legally/ available (it
would have looked better for Dylan if he'd given credit to Timrod either in
the byline of the songs, or at least in the liner notes) much bigger was his
lifting of dozens of lines from the Japanese writer Dr. Saga for the songs
of "Love & Theft" back in '01.

But, like the person wrote on the use of the Timrod lines, Dylan did do some
interesting things with the lines... some of his best songs are on these two
records, imo.

> > TVLand is also running the original Star Trek series these days, so
recently
> > I caught the lines he used in the Empire Burlesque material, which was
also
> > amusing.
> >
> > Yeah, Beat Haiku, which Kerouac called "American Haiku":
> >
> > "The American Haiku is not exactly the Japanese
> > Haiku. The Japanese Haiku is strictly disciplined
> > to seventeen syllables but since the language
> > structure is different I don't think American
> > Haikus (short three-line poems intended to be
> > completely packed with Void of Whole) should worry about syllables
because
> > American speech is something again...bursting to pop.
> >
> > Above all, a Haiku must be very simple and free
> > of all poetic trickery and make a little picture
> > and yet be as airy and graceful as a Vivaldi
> > Pastorella."
> > Jack Kerouac
> >
> > Jack Kerouac Haiku collection:
> >
> > http://users.rcn.com/jhudak.interport/Jack.html
>
> Even more interesting. I bet some of these are good. Unfortunately I
> made the mistake of reading a bunch at a time, which blunted the
> impact. Really, to be read as poems, they have to be read one at a
> time; I'll go back and do that later.

Well... it /is/ Kerouac so it was pretty much impossible for him to write
something that wasn't "good", or at least "important", since everything he
wrote filled in details of the Dulouz Legend, and every detail adds to the
massive autobiography as a whole:

"...a lifetime of writing about what I'd seen with my own eyes, told in my
own words, according to the style I decided on... and put all together as a
contemporary record for future times to see what really happened and what
people really thought[...] In my old age I intend to collect all my work and
reinsert my pantheon of uniform names, leave the long shelf of books, there,
and die happy."
-Jack Kerouac

Unfortunately, or course, Kerouac never made it to "old age" and died far
from "happy"... and never had a chance to insert the uniform names and
arrange the chronology.

> > Kerouac reading & singing:
> >
> > http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_s...uacspeaks.html
> >
> > Anyway, either way, Kerouac set the standard for America, am I right?
>
> Apparently. I'm not aware of anyone talking about or writing haiku in
> English before that time. That's a tentative conclusion, though,
> since I don't know much about the subject; let's see what feedback, if
> any, this exchange gets from the group.

Skipping ahead, I see Stuart Leichter has named a couple other poets who
wrote Haiku for /English/... but Kerouac proposed /American/ Haiku, with all
the rough wildness unique to Americans... I'll check out his post and see
for sure if this is true... Pound was Irish, right?

--
"Ozone Stigmata" (the video):
Will Dockery -vocal
Henry Conley -guitar
Brian Fowler -mandolin
Produced and recorded at Echobeast Studios by Brian Fowler, images
compiled by A. Jinn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxfl_7KvFcc

"The Ride (Combat Zone)" (the video)
Shadowville All-Stars
Recorded at SoHo
Columbus, GA 31907
Video by Janis Petersen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lZ3VAmNTWc

> > "Mirror Twins" by W. Dockery-B.
Fowler:http://www.myspace.com/shadowvilleallstars
> >
> > "Hasty Pudding" by W. Dockery-H.
Conley:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
>

Stuart Leichter

in article 342fd$465e0370$18d62320$16287@KNOLOGY.NET, Will Dockery at
will.dockery@knology.net wrote on 5/30/07 7:06 PM:

> "George Dance" wrote:
>> Will Dockery wrote:
>>> George Dance wrote:
>>
>>>>>> My daughter asked me to share this poem (author unknown to either
> of us):
>>>
>>>>>> Haiku are quite easy
>>>>>> though sometimes they make no sense;
>>>>>> refrigerator.
>>>
>>>>> San Francisco haiku.
>>>
>>>> Hmm. Remind me of the first poem I ever memorized. It was from a
>>>> Beverley Hillbillies episode in which (for some reason connected with
>>>> the Drysdales) a Beat Poet from San Francisco was staying with the
>>>> Clampetts.
>>>
>>>> One day Granny found the poet standing on his head against a wall. He
>>>> told her he was meditating; when she asked why he told her (more or
>>>> less), "When I meditate, my brains soar." So she explained that it
>>>> was sore because all his blood was rushing to it, and pulled him
>>>> down.
>>>
>>>> He was a bit upset, and told her that was how he wrote his poetry.
>>>> She asked if he'd written a poem; he told her he had, and recited it
>>>> (and this part I've committed to memory):
>>>
>>>> Blue cheesecake
>>>> A silver spoon in the sand
>>>> The seaweed barks at me.
>>>
>>>> So she turned him upside down again, and left him there to write a
>>>> better one.
>>>
>>> Old school television had a grip on the Beat scene, no doubt... the
> Addams
>>> Family hosted a poetry gathering, while the Munsters took it on down the
>>> Highway 61.
>>>
>>> I'm sitting here with the television blasting on the side like old time
>>> radio, and Lucy and Ricky Ricardo are going through the old "handcuffed
> by
>>> accident" routine (TVLand could do a compilation of these, since it
> seems
>>> everyone on sitcom tv went through this at least once).
>>>
>>> An old locksmith from Yonkers is there to set 'em free but is more
>>> interested in Ricardo's music, as his wife is a fan... and he says "For
>>> Christmas I'll give her a drum."
>>
>> As soon as I read those lines, I heard Ricky Nelson in my mind.
>
> Yeah, I'd forgotten that Ricky Nelson had a big hit with "She Belongs To Me"
> back in the 1960s.
>
> His "Lonesome Town" was a great one, too:
>
> There's a place where lovers go
> To cry their troubles away.
> And they call it,
> Lonesome Town,
> Where the broken hearts stay.
>
> You can buy a dream or two
> To last you all through the years.
> And the only price you pay
> Is a heart full of tears.
>
> Goin' down to Lonesome Town,
> Where the broken hearts stay.
> Goin' down to Lonesome Town,
> To cry my troubles away.
>
> In the town of broken dreams,
> The streets are filled with regret.
> Maybe down in
> Lonesome Town,
> I can learn to forget.
> Maybe down in
> Lonesome Town,
> I can learn to forget.
> Lonesome Town.
>
>>> So, in L&T tradition, what were the chances Dylan was sitting up one
> night,
>>> smoking weed and writing LMZNL, and the late night reruns playing soft
> off
>>> to the side is this "I Love Lucy" episode? It would have been about a
> decade
>>> old at the time, and probably in syndication prime... just a morning
> coffee
>>> thought to toss out which was of at least a passing Dylan interest.
>>
>> It's interesting. A while back I was reading some posts on the "Dylan
>> ripped off Timrod" controversy, and I read a good article on that; the
>> writer came up with a dozen or so other sources that Dylan "ripped
>> off" in the same song -
>
> The music is copped, sometimes note-for-note, from such people as BB King
> and Bing Crosby... I had a link to a site that plays the original songs, and
> they're so close to the songs Dylan "wrote" that they sound like the same
> tracks sometimes.
>
>> his point being that the way they've been
>> recombined, to say something new, makes them original art. (I doubt
>> I'd be able to find the article again, unfortunately.)
>
> I can get hold of it pretty easily since I responded in that thread a few
> times... Google "timrod" + "will dockery" and you should get to where you're
> looking...
>
> But while the Timrod poetry is public domain and /legally/ available (it
> would have looked better for Dylan if he'd given credit to Timrod either in
> the byline of the songs, or at least in the liner notes) much bigger was his
> lifting of dozens of lines from the Japanese writer Dr. Saga for the songs
> of "Love & Theft" back in '01.
>
> But, like the person wrote on the use of the Timrod lines, Dylan did do some
> interesting things with the lines... some of his best songs are on these two
> records, imo.
>
>>> TVLand is also running the original Star Trek series these days, so
> recently
>>> I caught the lines he used in the Empire Burlesque material, which was
> also
>>> amusing.
>>>
>>> Yeah, Beat Haiku, which Kerouac called "American Haiku":
>>>
>>> "The American Haiku is not exactly the Japanese
>>> Haiku. The Japanese Haiku is strictly disciplined
>>> to seventeen syllables but since the language
>>> structure is different I don't think American
>>> Haikus (short three-line poems intended to be
>>> completely packed with Void of Whole) should worry about syllables
> because
>>> American speech is something again...bursting to pop.
>>>
>>> Above all, a Haiku must be very simple and free
>>> of all poetic trickery and make a little picture
>>> and yet be as airy and graceful as a Vivaldi
>>> Pastorella."
>>> Jack Kerouac
>>>
>>> Jack Kerouac Haiku collection:
>>>
>>> http://users.rcn.com/jhudak.interport/Jack.html
>>
>> Even more interesting. I bet some of these are good. Unfortunately I
>> made the mistake of reading a bunch at a time, which blunted the
>> impact. Really, to be read as poems, they have to be read one at a
>> time; I'll go back and do that later.
>
> Well... it /is/ Kerouac so it was pretty much impossible for him to write
> something that wasn't "good", or at least "important", since everything he
> wrote filled in details of the Dulouz Legend, and every detail adds to the
> massive autobiography as a whole:
>
> "...a lifetime of writing about what I'd seen with my own eyes, told in my
> own words, according to the style I decided on... and put all together as a
> contemporary record for future times to see what really happened and what
> people really thought[...] In my old age I intend to collect all my work and
> reinsert my pantheon of uniform names, leave the long shelf of books, there,
> and die happy."
> -Jack Kerouac
>
> Unfortunately, or course, Kerouac never made it to "old age" and died far
> from "happy"... and never had a chance to insert the uniform names and
> arrange the chronology.
>
>>> Kerouac reading & singing:
>>>
>>> http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_s...uacspeaks.html
>>>
>>> Anyway, either way, Kerouac set the standard for America, am I right?
>>
>> Apparently. I'm not aware of anyone talking about or writing haiku in
>> English before that time. That's a tentative conclusion, though,
>> since I don't know much about the subject; let's see what feedback, if
>> any, this exchange gets from the group.
>
> Skipping ahead, I see Stuart Leichter has named a couple other poets who
> wrote Haiku for /English/... but Kerouac proposed /American/ Haiku, with all
> the rough wildness unique to Americans... I'll check out his post and see
> for sure if this is true... Pound was Irish, right?

You're thinking of Jameson's again, n'est-ce pas?

Will Dockery

"Stuart Leichter" wrote:
> >> Will Dockery wrote:
> >>> George Dance wrote:
>
> >>>>>> My daughter asked me to share this poem (author unknown to either
of us):
> >>>
> >>>>>> Haiku are quite easy
> >>>>>> though sometimes they make no sense;
> >>>>>> refrigerator.
> >>>
> >>>>> San Francisco haiku.
> >>>
> >>>> Hmm. Remind me of the first poem I ever memorized. It was from a
> >>>> Beverley Hillbillies episode in which (for some reason connected with
> >>>> the Drysdales) a Beat Poet from San Francisco was staying with the
> >>>> Clampetts.
> >>>
> >>>> One day Granny found the poet standing on his head against a wall.
He
> >>>> told her he was meditating; when she asked why he told her (more or
> >>>> less), "When I meditate, my brains soar." So she explained that it
> >>>> was sore because all his blood was rushing to it, and pulled him
> >>>> down.
> >>>
> >>>> He was a bit upset, and told her that was how he wrote his poetry.
> >>>> She asked if he'd written a poem; he told her he had, and recited it
> >>>> (and this part I've committed to memory):
> >>>
> >>>> Blue cheesecake
> >>>> A silver spoon in the sand
> >>>> The seaweed barks at me.
> >>>
> >>>> So she turned him upside down again, and left him there to write a
> >>>> better one.
> >>>
> >>> Old school television had a grip on the Beat scene, no doubt... the
> > Addams
> >>> Family hosted a poetry gathering, while the Munsters took it on down
the
> >>> Highway 61.
> >>>
> >>> I'm sitting here with the television blasting on the side like old
time
> >>> radio, and Lucy and Ricky Ricardo are going through the old
"handcuffed
> > by
> >>> accident" routine (TVLand could do a compilation of these, since it
> > seems
> >>> everyone on sitcom tv went through this at least once).
> >>>
> >>> An old locksmith from Yonkers is there to set 'em free but is more
> >>> interested in Ricardo's music, as his wife is a fan... and he says
"For
> >>> Christmas I'll give her a drum."
> >>
> >> As soon as I read those lines, I heard Ricky Nelson in my mind.
> >
> > Yeah, I'd forgotten that Ricky Nelson had a big hit with "She Belongs To
Me"
> > back in the 1960s.
> >
> > His "Lonesome Town" was a great one, too:
> >
> > There's a place where lovers go
> > To cry their troubles away.
> > And they call it,
> > Lonesome Town,
> > Where the broken hearts stay.
> >
> > You can buy a dream or two
> > To last you all through the years.
> > And the only price you pay
> > Is a heart full of tears.
> >
> > Goin' down to Lonesome Town,
> > Where the broken hearts stay.
> > Goin' down to Lonesome Town,
> > To cry my troubles away.
> >
> > In the town of broken dreams,
> > The streets are filled with regret.
> > Maybe down in
> > Lonesome Town,
> > I can learn to forget.
> > Maybe down in
> > Lonesome Town,
> > I can learn to forget.
> > Lonesome Town.
> >
> >>> So, in L&T tradition, what were the chances Dylan was sitting up one
> > night,
> >>> smoking weed and writing LMZNL, and the late night reruns playing soft
> > off
> >>> to the side is this "I Love Lucy" episode? It would have been about a
> > decade
> >>> old at the time, and probably in syndication prime... just a morning
> > coffee
> >>> thought to toss out which was of at least a passing Dylan interest.
> >>
> >> It's interesting. A while back I was reading some posts on the "Dylan
> >> ripped off Timrod" controversy, and I read a good article on that; the
> >> writer came up with a dozen or so other sources that Dylan "ripped
> >> off" in the same song -
> >
> > The music is copped, sometimes note-for-note, from such people as BB
King
> > and Bing Crosby... I had a link to a site that plays the original songs,
and
> > they're so close to the songs Dylan "wrote" that they sound like the
same
> > tracks sometimes.
> >
> >> his point being that the way they've been
> >> recombined, to say something new, makes them original art. (I doubt
> >> I'd be able to find the article again, unfortunately.)
> >
> > I can get hold of it pretty easily since I responded in that thread a
few
> > times... Google "timrod" + "will dockery" and you should get to where
you're
> > looking...
> >
> > But while the Timrod poetry is public domain and /legally/ available (it
> > would have looked better for Dylan if he'd given credit to Timrod either
in
> > the byline of the songs, or at least in the liner notes) much bigger was
his
> > lifting of dozens of lines from the Japanese writer Dr. Saga for the
songs
> > of "Love & Theft" back in '01.
> >
> > But, like the person wrote on the use of the Timrod lines, Dylan did do
some
> > interesting things with the lines... some of his best songs are on these
two
> > records, imo.
> >
> >>> TVLand is also running the original Star Trek series these days, so
> > recently
> >>> I caught the lines he used in the Empire Burlesque material, which was
> > also
> >>> amusing.
> >>>
> >>> Yeah, Beat Haiku, which Kerouac called "American Haiku":
> >>>
> >>> "The American Haiku is not exactly the Japanese
> >>> Haiku. The Japanese Haiku is strictly disciplined
> >>> to seventeen syllables but since the language
> >>> structure is different I don't think American
> >>> Haikus (short three-line poems intended to be
> >>> completely packed with Void of Whole) should worry about syllables
> > because
> >>> American speech is something again...bursting to pop.
> >>>
> >>> Above all, a Haiku must be very simple and free
> >>> of all poetic trickery and make a little picture
> >>> and yet be as airy and graceful as a Vivaldi
> >>> Pastorella."
> >>> Jack Kerouac
> >>>
> >>> Jack Kerouac Haiku collection:
> >>>
> >>> http://users.rcn.com/jhudak.interport/Jack.html
> >>
> >> Even more interesting. I bet some of these are good. Unfortunately I
> >> made the mistake of reading a bunch at a time, which blunted the
> >> impact. Really, to be read as poems, they have to be read one at a
> >> time; I'll go back and do that later.
> >
> > Well... it /is/ Kerouac so it was pretty much impossible for him to
write
> > something that wasn't "good", or at least "important", since everything
he
> > wrote filled in details of the Dulouz Legend, and every detail adds to
the
> > massive autobiography as a whole:
> >
> > "...a lifetime of writing about what I'd seen with my own eyes, told in
my
> > own words, according to the style I decided on... and put all together
as a
> > contemporary record for future times to see what really happened and
what
> > people really thought[...] In my old age I intend to collect all my work
and
> > reinsert my pantheon of uniform names, leave the long shelf of books,
there,
> > and die happy."
> > -Jack Kerouac
> >
> > Unfortunately, or course, Kerouac never made it to "old age" and died
far
> > from "happy"... and never had a chance to insert the uniform names and
> > arrange the chronology.
> >
> >>> Kerouac reading & singing:
> >>>
> >>> http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_s...uacspeaks.html
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, either way, Kerouac set the standard for America, am I right?
> >>
> >> Apparently. I'm not aware of anyone talking about or writing haiku in
> >> English before that time. That's a tentative conclusion, though,
> >> since I don't know much about the subject; let's see what feedback, if
> >> any, this exchange gets from the group.
> >
> > Skipping ahead, I see Stuart Leichter has named a couple other poets who
> > wrote Haiku for /English/... but Kerouac proposed /American/ Haiku, with
all
> > the rough wildness unique to Americans... I'll check out his post and
see
> > for sure if this is true... Pound was Irish, right?
>
> You're thinking of Jameson's again, n'est-ce pas?

When I think of Pound, I always think of his live broadcasts from Italy and
the cold coffee incident:

----
"I had withdrawn in forest and my song
Was swallowed up in leaves..."
-Robert Frost

[from the review of "A Boy's Will" by Robert Frost]:

"I remember that I was canoeing and thirsty and I put into a shanty for
water and found a man who had no water and gave me cold coffee instead. And
he didn't understand it, he was from a minor city and he "just set there
watchin' the river" and didn't "seem to want to go back," and he didn't care
for anything else. and so I presume he entered into Anunda. And I remember
Joseph Campbell telling me of meeting a man on a desolate waste of bogs, and
he said to him, "it's rather dull here"; and the man said, "Faith, ye can
sit on a middan and dream stars. And that is the essence of folk poetry with
distinction between America and Ireland. And Frost's book reminded me of
these things..."

-Ezra Pound [excerpted from "Into my Own" by John Evangelest Walsh.]

Now I'm thinking of some Jameson's in my coffee... heh.

--
"Ozone Stigmata" (the video):
Will Dockery -vocal
Henry Conley -guitar
Brian Fowler -mandolin
Produced and recorded at Echobeast Studios by Brian Fowler, images compiled
by A. Jinn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxfl_7KvFcc

"The Ride (Combat Zone)" (the video)
Shadowville All-Stars
Recorded at SoHo
Columbus, GA 31907
Video by Janis Petersen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lZ3VAmNTWc

Amadeus Jinn

"Will Dockery" <will.dockery@knology.net> wrote in message news:342fd$465e0370$18d62320$16287@KNOLOGY.NET...
> "George Dance" wrote:
>>Will Dockery wrote:
>>>George Dance wrote:
>>
>> > > > > My daughter asked me to share this poem (author unknown to either
> of us):
>> >
>> > > > > Haiku are quite easy
>> > > > > though sometimes they make no sense;
>> > > > > refrigerator.
>> >
>> > > > San Francisco haiku.
>> >
>> > > Hmm. Remind me of the first poem I ever memorized. It was from a
>> > > Beverley Hillbillies episode in which (for some reason connected with
>> > > the Drysdales) a Beat Poet from San Francisco was staying with the
>> > > Clampetts.
>> >
>> > > One day Granny found the poet standing on his head against a wall. He
>> > > told her he was meditating; when she asked why he told her (more or
>> > > less), "When I meditate, my brains soar." So she explained that it
>> > > was sore because all his blood was rushing to it, and pulled him
>> > > down.
>> >
>> > > He was a bit upset, and told her that was how he wrote his poetry.
>> > > She asked if he'd written a poem; he told her he had, and recited it
>> > > (and this part I've committed to memory):
>> >
>> > > Blue cheesecake
>> > > A silver spoon in the sand
>> > > The seaweed barks at me.
>> >
>> > > So she turned him upside down again, and left him there to write a
>> > > better one.
>> >
>> > Old school television had a grip on the Beat scene, no doubt... the
> Addams
>> > Family hosted a poetry gathering, while the Munsters took it on down the
>> > Highway 61.
>> >
>> > I'm sitting here with the television blasting on the side like old time
>> > radio, and Lucy and Ricky Ricardo are going through the old "handcuffed
> by
>> > accident" routine (TVLand could do a compilation of these, since it
> seems
>> > everyone on sitcom tv went through this at least once).
>> >
>> > An old locksmith from Yonkers is there to set 'em free but is more
>> > interested in Ricardo's music, as his wife is a fan... and he says "For
>> > Christmas I'll give her a drum."
>>
>> As soon as I read those lines, I heard Ricky Nelson in my mind.
>
> Yeah, I'd forgotten that Ricky Nelson had a big hit with "She Belongs To Me"
> back in the 1960s.
>
> His "Lonesome Town" was a great one, too:
>
> There's a place where lovers go
> To cry their troubles away.
> And they call it,
> Lonesome Town,
> Where the broken hearts stay.
>
> You can buy a dream or two
> To last you all through the years.
> And the only price you pay
> Is a heart full of tears.
>
> Goin' down to Lonesome Town,
> Where the broken hearts stay.
> Goin' down to Lonesome Town,
> To cry my troubles away.
>
> In the town of broken dreams,
> The streets are filled with regret.
> Maybe down in
> Lonesome Town,
> I can learn to forget.
> Maybe down in
> Lonesome Town,
> I can learn to forget.
> Lonesome Town.
>
>> > So, in L&T tradition, what were the chances Dylan was sitting up one
> night,
>> > smoking weed and writing LMZNL, and the late night reruns playing soft
> off
>> > to the side is this "I Love Lucy" episode? It would have been about a
> decade
>> > old at the time, and probably in syndication prime... just a morning
> coffee
>> > thought to toss out which was of at least a passing Dylan interest.
>>
>> It's interesting. A while back I was reading some posts on the "Dylan
>> ripped off Timrod" controversy, and I read a good article on that; the
>> writer came up with a dozen or so other sources that Dylan "ripped
>> off" in the same song -
>
> The music is copped, sometimes note-for-note, from such people as BB King
> and Bing Crosby... I had a link to a site that plays the original songs, and
> they're so close to the songs Dylan "wrote" that they sound like the same
> tracks sometimes.

The copyright on the 12-bar blues is outdated.

>
>> his point being that the way they've been
>> recombined, to say something new, makes them original art. (I doubt
>> I'd be able to find the article again, unfortunately.)
>
> I can get hold of it pretty easily since I responded in that thread a few
> times... Google "timrod" + "will dockery" and you should get to where you're
> looking...
>
> But while the Timrod poetry is public domain and /legally/ available (it
> would have looked better for Dylan if he'd given credit to Timrod either in
> the byline of the songs, or at least in the liner notes) much bigger was his
> lifting of dozens of lines from the Japanese writer Dr. Saga for the songs
> of "Love & Theft" back in '01.

Dealer's choice. Probably a little better.

--
-------------------------------------------
AJ - http://ClitIns.Com e In.
(800 folders. -- kiddie-filtered -- FREE,
Usenet Porn.)

>
> But, like the person wrote on the use of the Timrod lines, Dylan did do some
> interesting things with the lines... some of his best songs are on these two
> records, imo.
>
>> > TVLand is also running the original Star Trek series these days, so
> recently
>> > I caught the lines he used in the Empire Burlesque material, which was
> also
>> > amusing.
>> >
>> > Yeah, Beat Haiku, which Kerouac called "American Haiku":
>> >
>> > "The American Haiku is not exactly the Japanese
>> > Haiku. The Japanese Haiku is strictly disciplined
>> > to seventeen syllables but since the language
>> > structure is different I don't think American
>> > Haikus (short three-line poems intended to be
>> > completely packed with Void of Whole) should worry about syllables
> because
>> > American speech is something again...bursting to pop.
>> >
>> > Above all, a Haiku must be very simple and free
>> > of all poetic trickery and make a little picture
>> > and yet be as airy and graceful as a Vivaldi
>> > Pastorella."
>> > Jack Kerouac
>> >
>> > Jack Kerouac Haiku collection:
>> >
>> > http://users.rcn.com/jhudak.interport/Jack.html
>>
>> Even more interesting. I bet some of these are good. Unfortunately I
>> made the mistake of reading a bunch at a time, which blunted the
>> impact. Really, to be read as poems, they have to be read one at a
>> time; I'll go back and do that later.
>
> Well... it /is/ Kerouac so it was pretty much impossible for him to write
> something that wasn't "good", or at least "important", since everything he
> wrote filled in details of the Dulouz Legend, and every detail adds to the
> massive autobiography as a whole:
>
> "...a lifetime of writing about what I'd seen with my own eyes, told in my
> own words, according to the style I decided on... and put all together as a
> contemporary record for future times to see what really happened and what
> people really thought[...] In my old age I intend to collect all my work and
> reinsert my pantheon of uniform names, leave the long shelf of books, there,
> and die happy."
> -Jack Kerouac
>
> Unfortunately, or course, Kerouac never made it to "old age" and died far
> from "happy"... and never had a chance to insert the uniform names and
> arrange the chronology.
>
>> > Kerouac reading & singing:
>> >
>> > http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_s...uacspeaks.html
>> >
>> > Anyway, either way, Kerouac set the standard for America, am I right?
>>
>> Apparently. I'm not aware of anyone talking about or writing haiku in
>> English before that time. That's a tentative conclusion, though,
>> since I don't know much about the subject; let's see what feedback, if
>> any, this exchange gets from the group.
>
> Skipping ahead, I see Stuart Leichter has named a couple other poets who
> wrote Haiku for /English/... but Kerouac proposed /American/ Haiku, with all
> the rough wildness unique to Americans... I'll check out his post and see
> for sure if this is true... Pound was Irish, right?
>
> --
> "Ozone Stigmata" (the video):
> Will Dockery -vocal
> Henry Conley -guitar
> Brian Fowler -mandolin
> Produced and recorded at Echobeast Studios by Brian Fowler, images
> compiled by A. Jinn.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxfl_7KvFcc
>
> "The Ride (Combat Zone)" (the video)
> Shadowville All-Stars
> Recorded at SoHo
> Columbus, GA 31907
> Video by Janis Petersen
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lZ3VAmNTWc
>
>> > "Mirror Twins" by W. Dockery-B.
> Fowler:http://www.myspace.com/shadowvilleallstars
>> >
>> > "Hasty Pudding" by W. Dockery-H.
> Conley:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery- Hide quoted text -
>> >
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>>
>
>

Will Dockery

"Amadeus Jinn" wrote:
>Will Dockery wrote:
>>George Dance wrote:
>
> >> > > > > My daughter asked me to share this poem (author unknown to
either of us):
> >> >
> >> > > > > Haiku are quite easy
> >> > > > > though sometimes they make no sense; refrigerator.
> >> >
> >> > > > San Francisco haiku.
> >> >
> >> > > Hmm. Remind me of the first poem I ever memorized. It was from a
> >> > > Beverley Hillbillies episode in which (for some reason connected
with
> >> > > the Drysdales) a Beat Poet from San Francisco was staying with the
> >> > > Clampetts.
> >> >
> >> > > One day Granny found the poet standing on his head against a wall.
He
> >> > > told her he was meditating; when she asked why he told her (more or
> >> > > less), "When I meditate, my brains soar." So she explained that it
> >> > > was sore because all his blood was rushing to it, and pulled him
> >> > > down.
> >> >
> >> > > He was a bit upset, and told her that was how he wrote his poetry.
> >> > > She asked if he'd written a poem; he told her he had, and recited
it
> >> > > (and this part I've committed to memory):
> >> >
> >> > > Blue cheesecake
> >> > > A silver spoon in the sand
> >> > > The seaweed barks at me.
> >> >
> >> > > So she turned him upside down again, and left him there to write a
> >> > > better one.
> >> >
> >> > Old school television had a grip on the Beat scene, no doubt... the
> > Addams
> >> > Family hosted a poetry gathering, while the Munsters took it on down
the
> >> > Highway 61.
> >> >
> >> > I'm sitting here with the television blasting on the side like old
time
> >> > radio, and Lucy and Ricky Ricardo are going through the old
"handcuffed
> > by
> >> > accident" routine (TVLand could do a compilation of these, since it
> > seems everyone on sitcom tv went through this at least once).
> >> >
> >> > An old locksmith from Yonkers is there to set 'em free but is more
> >> > interested in Ricardo's music, as his wife is a fan... and he says
"For
> >> > Christmas I'll give her a drum."
> >>
> >> As soon as I read those lines, I heard Ricky Nelson in my mind.
> >
> > Yeah, I'd forgotten that Ricky Nelson had a big hit with "She Belongs To
Me"
> > back in the 1960s.
> >
> > His "Lonesome Town" was a great one, too:
> >
> > There's a place where lovers go
> > To cry their troubles away.
> > And they call it,
> > Lonesome Town,
> > Where the broken hearts stay.
> >
> > You can buy a dream or two
> > To last you all through the years.
> > And the only price you pay
> > Is a heart full of tears.
> >
> > Goin' down to Lonesome Town,
> > Where the broken hearts stay.
> > Goin' down to Lonesome Town,
> > To cry my troubles away.
> >
> > In the town of broken dreams,
> > The streets are filled with regret.
> > Maybe down in
> > Lonesome Town,
> > I can learn to forget.
> > Maybe down in
> > Lonesome Town,
> > I can learn to forget.
> > Lonesome Town.
> >
> >> > So, in L&T tradition, what were the chances Dylan was sitting up one
> > night,
> >> > smoking weed and writing LMZNL, and the late night reruns playing
soft
> > off
> >> > to the side is this "I Love Lucy" episode? It would have been about a
> > decade
> >> > old at the time, and probably in syndication prime... just a morning
> > coffee
> >> > thought to toss out which was of at least a passing Dylan interest.
> >>
> >> It's interesting. A while back I was reading some posts on the "Dylan
> >> ripped off Timrod" controversy, and I read a good article on that; the
> >> writer came up with a dozen or so other sources that Dylan "ripped
> >> off" in the same song -
> >
> > The music is copped, sometimes note-for-note, from such people as BB
King
> > and Bing Crosby... I had a link to a site that plays the original songs,
and
> > they're so close to the songs Dylan "wrote" that they sound like the
same
> > tracks sometimes.
>
> The copyright on the 12-bar blues is outdated.

Yeah, the 12-bar blues is a frame to build on.

--
"Mirror Twins" by W. Dockery-B. Fowler:
http://www.myspace.com/shadowvilleallstars

"Hasty Pudding" by W. Dockery-H. Conley:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

> >> his point being that the way they've been
> >> recombined, to say something new, makes them original art. (I doubt
> >> I'd be able to find the article again, unfortunately.)
> >
> > I can get hold of it pretty easily since I responded in that thread a
few
> > times... Google "timrod" + "will dockery" and you should get to where
you're
> > looking...
> >
> > But while the Timrod poetry is public domain and /legally/ available (it
> > would have looked better for Dylan if he'd given credit to Timrod either
in
> > the byline of the songs, or at least in the liner notes) much bigger was
his
> > lifting of dozens of lines from the Japanese writer Dr. Saga for the
songs
> > of "Love & Theft" back in '01.
>
> Dealer's choice. Probably a little better.
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------
> AJ - http://ClitIns.Com e In.
> (800 folders. -- kiddie-filtered -- FREE,
> Usenet Porn.)
>
> >
> > But, like the person wrote on the use of the Timrod lines, Dylan did do
some
> > interesting things with the lines... some of his best songs are on these
two
> > records, imo.
> >
> >> > TVLand is also running the original Star Trek series these days, so
> > recently
> >> > I caught the lines he used in the Empire Burlesque material, which
was
> > also
> >> > amusing.
> >> >
> >> > Yeah, Beat Haiku, which Kerouac called "American Haiku":
> >> >
> >> > "The American Haiku is not exactly the Japanese
> >> > Haiku. The Japanese Haiku is strictly disciplined
> >> > to seventeen syllables but since the language
> >> > structure is different I don't think American
> >> > Haikus (short three-line poems intended to be
> >> > completely packed with Void of Whole) should worry about syllables
> > because
> >> > American speech is something again...bursting to pop.
> >> >
> >> > Above all, a Haiku must be very simple and free
> >> > of all poetic trickery and make a little picture
> >> > and yet be as airy and graceful as a Vivaldi
> >> > Pastorella."
> >> > Jack Kerouac
> >> >
> >> > Jack Kerouac Haiku collection:
> >> >
> >> > http://users.rcn.com/jhudak.interport/Jack.html
> >>
> >> Even more interesting. I bet some of these are good. Unfortunately I
> >> made the mistake of reading a bunch at a time, which blunted the
> >> impact. Really, to be read as poems, they have to be read one at a
> >> time; I'll go back and do that later.
> >
> > Well... it /is/ Kerouac so it was pretty much impossible for him to
write
> > something that wasn't "good", or at least "important", since everything
he
> > wrote filled in details of the Dulouz Legend, and every detail adds to
the
> > massive autobiography as a whole:
> >
> > "...a lifetime of writing about what I'd seen with my own eyes, told in
my
> > own words, according to the style I decided on... and put all together
as a
> > contemporary record for future times to see what really happened and
what
> > people really thought[...] In my old age I intend to collect all my work
and
> > reinsert my pantheon of uniform names, leave the long shelf of books,
there,
> > and die happy."
> > -Jack Kerouac
> >
> > Unfortunately, or course, Kerouac never made it to "old age" and died
far
> > from "happy"... and never had a chance to insert the uniform names and
> > arrange the chronology.
> >
> >> > Kerouac reading & singing:
> >> >
> >> > http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_s...uacspeaks.html
> >> >
> >> > Anyway, either way, Kerouac set the standard for America, am I right?
> >>
> >> Apparently. I'm not aware of anyone talking about or writing haiku in
> >> English before that time. That's a tentative conclusion, though,
> >> since I don't know much about the subject; let's see what feedback, if
> >> any, this exchange gets from the group.
> >
> > Skipping ahead, I see Stuart Leichter has named a couple other poets who
> > wrote Haiku for /English/... but Kerouac proposed /American/ Haiku, with
all
> > the rough wildness unique to Americans... I'll check out his post and
see
> > for sure if this is true... Pound was Irish, right?
> >
> > --
> > "Ozone Stigmata" (the video):
> > Will Dockery -vocal
> > Henry Conley -guitar
> > Brian Fowler -mandolin
> > Produced and recorded at Echobeast Studios by Brian Fowler, images
> > compiled by A. Jinn.
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxfl_7KvFcc
> >
> > "The Ride (Combat Zone)" (the video)
> > Shadowville All-Stars
> > Recorded at SoHo
> > Columbus, GA 31907
> > Video by Janis Petersen
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lZ3VAmNTWc
> >
> >> > "Mirror Twins" by W. Dockery-B.
> > Fowler:http://www.myspace.com/shadowvilleallstars
> >> >
> >> > "Hasty Pudding" by W. Dockery-H.
> > Conley:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery- Hide quoted text -
> >> >
> >> > - Show quoted text -
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

George Dance

On May 30, 4:06 pm, "Will Dockery" <will.dock...@knology.net> wrote:
> "George Dance" wrote:
> >Will Dockery wrote:
> >>George Dance wrote:
>
> > > > > > My daughter asked me to share this poem (author unknown to either
> of us):
>
> > > > > > Haiku are quite easy
> > > > > > though sometimes they make no sense;
> > > > > > refrigerator.
>
> > > > > San Francisco haiku.
>
> > > > Hmm. Remind me of the first poem I ever memorized. It was from a
> > > > Beverley Hillbillies episode in which (for some reason connected with
> > > > the Drysdales) a Beat Poet from San Francisco was staying with the
> > > > Clampetts.
>
> > > > One day Granny found the poet standing on his head against a wall. He
> > > > told her he was meditating; when she asked why he told her (more or
> > > > less), "When I meditate, my brains soar." So she explained that it
> > > > was sore because all his blood was rushing to it, and pulled him
> > > > down.
>
> > > > He was a bit upset, and told her that was how he wrote his poetry.
> > > > She asked if he'd written a poem; he told her he had, and recited it
> > > > (and this part I've committed to memory):
>
> > > > Blue cheesecake
> > > > A silver spoon in the sand
> > > > The seaweed barks at me.
>
> > > > So she turned him upside down again, and left him there to write a
> > > > better one.
>
> > > Old school television had a grip on the Beat scene, no doubt... the
> Addams
> > > Family hosted a poetry gathering, while the Munsters took it on down the
> > > Highway 61.
>
> > > I'm sitting here with the television blasting on the side like old time
> > > radio, and Lucy and Ricky Ricardo are going through the old "handcuffed
> by
> > > accident" routine (TVLand could do a compilation of these, since it
> seems
> > > everyone on sitcom tv went through this at least once).
>
> > > An old locksmith from Yonkers is there to set 'em free but is more
> > > interested in Ricardo's music, as his wife is a fan... and he says "For
> > > Christmas I'll give her a drum."
>
> > As soon as I read those lines, I heard Ricky Nelson in my mind.
>
> Yeah, I'd forgotten that Ricky Nelson had a big hit with "She Belongs To Me"
> back in the 1960s.
>
> His "Lonesome Town" was a great one, too:
>
> There's a place where lovers go
> To cry their troubles away.
> And they call it,
> Lonesome Town,
> Where the broken hearts stay.
>
> You can buy a dream or two
> To last you all through the years.
> And the only price you pay
> Is a heart full of tears.
>
> Goin' down to Lonesome Town,
> Where the broken hearts stay.
> Goin' down to Lonesome Town,
> To cry my troubles away.
>
> In the town of broken dreams,
> The streets are filled with regret.
> Maybe down in
> Lonesome Town,
> I can learn to forget.
> Maybe down in
> Lonesome Town,
> I can learn to forget.
> Lonesome Town.
>
>
>
> > > So, in L&T tradition, what were the chances Dylan was sitting up one
> night,
> > > smoking weed and writing LMZNL, and the late night reruns playing soft
> off
> > > to the side is this "I Love Lucy" episode? It would have been about a
> decade
> > > old at the time, and probably in syndication prime... just a morning
> coffee
> > > thought to toss out which was of at least a passing Dylan interest.
>
> > It's interesting. A while back I was reading some posts on the "Dylan
> > ripped off Timrod" controversy, and I read a good article on that; the
> > writer came up with a dozen or so other sources that Dylan "ripped
> > off" in the same song -
>
> The music is copped, sometimes note-for-note, from such people as BB King
> and Bing Crosby... I had a link to a site that plays the original songs, and
> they're so close to the songs Dylan "wrote" that they sound like the same
> tracks sometimes.
>
> > his point being that the way they've been
> > recombined, to say something new, makes them original art. (I doubt
> > I'd be able to find the article again, unfortunately.)
>
> I can get hold of it pretty easily since I responded in that thread a few
> times... Google "timrod" + "will dockery" and you should get to where you're
> looking...
>
> But while the Timrod poetry is public domain and /legally/ available (it
> would have looked better for Dylan if he'd given credit to Timrod either in
> the byline of the songs, or at least in the liner notes) much bigger was his
> lifting of dozens of lines from the Japanese writer Dr. Saga for the songs
> of "Love & Theft" back in '01.
>
> But, like the person wrote on the use of the Timrod lines, Dylan did do some
> interesting things with the lines... some of his best songs are on these two
> records, imo.


Pretty much what the author of the article I rememberd said. I found
it, BTW; it was actually a webbed article by Robert Polito (who edited
Kenneth Fearing's /Selected Poems/. Here's the link:

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/arch...html?id=178703




>
> > > TVLand is also running the original Star Trek series these days, so
> recently
> > > I caught the lines he used in the Empire Burlesque material, which was
> also
> > > amusing.
>
> > > Yeah, Beat Haiku, which Kerouac called "American Haiku":
>
> > > "The American Haiku is not exactly the Japanese
> > > Haiku. The Japanese Haiku is strictly disciplined
> > > to seventeen syllables but since the language
> > > structure is different I don't think American
> > > Haikus (short three-line poems intended to be
> > > completely packed with Void of Whole) should worry about syllables
> because
> > > American speech is something again...bursting to pop.
>
> > > Above all, a Haiku must be very simple and free
> > > of all poetic trickery and make a little picture
> > > and yet be as airy and graceful as a Vivaldi
> > > Pastorella."
> > > Jack Kerouac
>
> > > Jack Kerouac Haiku collection:
>
> > >http://users.rcn.com/jhudak.interport/Jack.html
>
> > Even more interesting. I bet some of these are good. Unfortunately I
> > made the mistake of reading a bunch at a time, which blunted the
> > impact. Really, to be read as poems, they have to be read one at a
> > time; I'll go back and do that later.
>
> Well... it /is/ Kerouac so it was pretty much impossible for him to write
> something that wasn't "good", or at least "important", since everything he
> wrote filled in details of the Dulouz Legend, and every detail adds to the
> massive autobiography as a whole:
>
> "...a lifetime of writing about what I'd seen with my own eyes, told in my
> own words, according to the style I decided on... and put all together as a
> contemporary record for future times to see what really happened and what
> people really thought[...] In my old age I intend to collect all my work and
> reinsert my pantheon of uniform names, leave the long shelf of books, there,
> and die happy."
> -Jack Kerouac
>
> Unfortunately, or course, Kerouac never made it to "old age" and died far
> from "happy"... and never had a chance to insert the uniform names and
> arrange the chronology.
>
> > > Kerouac reading & singing:
>
> > >http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_s...uacspeaks.html
>
> > > Anyway, either way, Kerouac set the standard for America, am I right?
>
> > Apparently. I'm not aware of anyone talking about or writing haiku in
> > English before that time. That's a tentative conclusion, though,
> > since I don't know much about the subject; let's see what feedback, if
> > any, this exchange gets from the group.
>
> Skipping ahead, I see Stuart Leichter has named a couple other poets who
> wrote Haiku for /English/... but Kerouac proposed /American/ Haiku, with all
> the rough wildness unique to Americans... I'll check out his post and see
> for sure if this is true... Pound was Irish, right?
>
> --
> "Ozone Stigmata" (the video):
> Will Dockery -vocal
> Henry Conley -guitar
> Brian Fowler -mandolin
> Produced and recorded at Echobeast Studios by Brian Fowler, images
> compiled by A. Jinn.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxfl_7KvFcc
>
> "The Ride (Combat Zone)" (the video)
> Shadowville All-Stars
> Recorded at SoHo
> Columbus, GA 31907
> Video by Janis Petersenhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lZ3VAmNTWc
>
> > > "Mirror Twins" by W. Dockery-B.
>
> Fowler:http://www.myspace.com/shadowvilleallstars
>
> > > "Hasty Pudding" by W. Dockery-H.
>
> Conley:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery-Hide quoted text -
>
>
>
>
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Will Dockery

"George Dance" wrote:
>Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > > > So, in L&T tradition, what were the chances Dylan was sitting up one
night,
> > > > smoking weed and writing LMZNL, and the late night reruns playing
soft off
> > > > to the side is this "I Love Lucy" episode? It would have been about
a decade
> > > > old at the time, and probably in syndication prime... just a morning
coffee
> > > > thought to toss out which was of at least a passing Dylan interest.
> >
> > > It's interesting. A while back I was reading some posts on the "Dylan
> > > ripped off Timrod" controversy, and I read a good article on that; the
> > > writer came up with a dozen or so other sources that Dylan "ripped
> > > off" in the same song -
> >
> > The music is copped, sometimes note-for-note, from such people as BB
King
> > and Bing Crosby... I had a link to a site that plays the original songs,
and
> > they're so close to the songs Dylan "wrote" that they sound like the
same
> > tracks sometimes.
> >
> > > his point being that the way they've been
> > > recombined, to say something new, makes them original art. (I doubt
> > > I'd be able to find the article again, unfortunately.)
> >
> > I can get hold of it pretty easily since I responded in that thread a
few
> > times... Google "timrod" + "will dockery" and you should get to where
you're
> > looking...
> >
> > But while the Timrod poetry is public domain and /legally/ available (it
> > would have looked better for Dylan if he'd given credit to Timrod either
in
> > the byline of the songs, or at least in the liner notes) much bigger was
his
> > lifting of dozens of lines from the Japanese writer Dr. Saga for the
songs
> > of "Love & Theft" back in '01.
> >
> > But, like the person wrote on the use of the Timrod lines, Dylan did do
some
> > interesting things with the lines... some of his best songs are on these
two
> > records, imo.
>
> Pretty much what the author of the article I rememberd said. I found
> it, BTW; it was actually a webbed article by Robert Polito (who edited
> Kenneth Fearing's /Selected Poems/. Here's the link:
> http://www.poetryfoundation.org/arch...html?id=178703

Yeah, that's the one... still, the use of multiple lines by another writer
is a situation I'd hate to have to deal with enough that I'll continue to
think up my own. Here's a good piece on the borrowings from the Japaenese
writer, which he turned into some fantastic works, actually some of his best
work ever:

----
"CONFESSIONS OF A YAKUZA" BY JUNICHI SAGA" "LOVE AND THEFT" BY BOB
DYLAN**

<http://www.csudh.edu/dearhabermas/plagiarbk010.htm>

"My old man would sit there like a feudal lord..." ("Confessions of a
Yakuza," page 6) "My old man, he's like some feudal lord/Got more lives
than a cat" ("Floater")

"If it bothers you so much," she'd say, " why don't you just shove off?"
("Confessions," page 9) "Juliet said back to Romeo, 'Why don't you just
shove off/If it bothers you so much?'" ("Floater")

"My mother...was the daughter of a wealthy farmer...(she) died when I was
eleven...I heard that my father was a traveling salesman who called at the
house regularly, but I never met him. (My uncle) was a nice man, I won't
forget him...After my mother died, I decided it'd be best to go and try my
luck there." ("Confessions," pages 57-58) "My mother was a daughter of a
wealthy farmer/My father was a traveling salesman, I never met him/When my
mother died, my uncle took me in -- he ran a funeral parlor/He did a lot of
nice things for me and I won't forget him" ("Po' Boy")

"Break the roof in!" he yelled.... (He) splashed kerosene over the floor and
led a fuse from it outside." ("Confessions," page 63) "Yes,
I'm leaving in the morning just as soon as the dark clouds lift/Gonna break
the roof in -- set fire to the place as a parting gift" ("Summer
Days")

"I won't come anymore if it bothers you." ("Confessions," page 139)
"Some things are too terrible to be true/I won't come here no more if it
bothers you" ("Honest With Me")

"D'you think I could call myself a yakuza if I couldn't stand up to some old
businessman?" ("Confessions," page 141) "D'you think I could call myself a
yakuza if I couldn't stand up to some old businessman?"
("Confessions," page 141)
" ...I heard he caused some kind of trouble that put him on bad terms with
the younger men.... A good bookie makes all the difference in a gambling
joint-- it's up to him whether a session comes alive or falls flat.... But
even kicking him out wasn't as easy as that.... So I decided to wait a while
and see how it worked out.... But age doesn't matter in that business....
Age by itself just doesn't carry any weight. ("Confessions," pages 153- 155)
"The old men 'round here, sometimes they get on/Bad terms with the younger
men, But old, young , age don't carry weight/It doesn't matter in the end"
("Floater")
"Things come alive or they fall flat" ("Floater") "It's not always easy
kicking someone out/Gotta wait a while - it can be an unpleasant task"
("Floater")
"Actually, though, I'm not as cool or forgiving as I might have sounded."
("Confessions," page 158) "I'm not quite as cool or forgiving as I
sound/I've seen enough heartaches and strife" ("Floater") "Tears or not,
though, that was too much to ask...." ("Confessions," page 182) "Sometimes
somebody wants you to give something up/And tears or not, it's too much to
ask ("Floater")

"Just because she was in the same house didn't mean we were living together
as man and wife...I don't know how it looked to other people, but I never
even slept with her--not once." ("Confessions," page 208)
"Samantha Brown lived in my house for about four or five months/Don't know
how it looked to other people/I never slept with her even once"
("Lonsesome Day Blues")

"They were big, those trees--a good four feet across the trunk...."
("Confessions, page 241) "There's a new grove of trees on the outskirts of
town/The old one is long gone/Timber two-foot six across/Burns with the bark
still on" ("Floater")

"There was nothing sentimental about him--it didn't bother him at all that
some of his pals had been killed. ("Confessions," page 243) "My captain,
he's decorated -- he's well schooled and he's skilled/He's not
sentimental -- don't bother him at all/How many of his pals have been
killed" ("Lonesome Day Blues")

Dylan's "people" denied that he'd stolen the lines, about a dozen, although
they match word-for-word. To this day Saga isn't mentioned anywhere on the
cover or credits, and the song is still credited to Dylan only. I wrote here
at the time that a cool way to handle it might have been to change the
credit to the song to "Dylan-Saga", and perhaps open the door to future
collaborations between the two.

Anyway, pretty interesting...

--
Will Dockery videos:

Ozone Stigmata- Dockery/Conley:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxfl_7KvFcc

The Ride (Combat Zone)- Dockery/Beck/Mallard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lZ3VAmNTWc

Greybeard Cavalier- Dockery/0x0000/Fowler:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6BGlXmtzE8

> > > > TVLand is also running the original Star Trek series these days, so
> > recently
> > > > I caught the lines he used in the Empire Burlesque material, which
was
> > also
> > > > amusing.
> >
> > > > Yeah, Beat Haiku, which Kerouac called "American Haiku":
> >
> > > > "The American Haiku is not exactly the Japanese
> > > > Haiku. The Japanese Haiku is strictly disciplined
> > > > to seventeen syllables but since the language
> > > > structure is different I don't think American
> > > > Haikus (short three-line poems intended to be
> > > > completely packed with Void of Whole) should worry about syllables
> > because
> > > > American speech is something again...bursting to pop.
> >
> > > > Above all, a Haiku must be very simple and free
> > > > of all poetic trickery and make a little picture
> > > > and yet be as airy and graceful as a Vivaldi
> > > > Pastorella."
> > > > Jack Kerouac
> >
> > > > Jack Kerouac Haiku collection:
> >
> > > >http://users.rcn.com/jhudak.interport/Jack.html
> >
> > > Even more interesting. I bet some of these are good. Unfortunately I
> > > made the mistake of reading a bunch at a time, which blunted the
> > > impact. Really, to be read as poems, they have to be read one at a
> > > time; I'll go back and do that later.
> >
> > Well... it /is/ Kerouac so it was pretty much impossible for him to
write
> > something that wasn't "good", or at least "important", since everything
he
> > wrote filled in details of the Dulouz Legend, and every detail adds to
the
> > massive autobiography as a whole:
> >
> > "...a lifetime of writing about what I'd seen with my own eyes, told in
my
> > own words, according to the style I decided on... and put all together
as a
> > contemporary record for future times to see what really happened and
what
> > people really thought[...] In my old age I intend to collect all my work
and
> > reinsert my pantheon of uniform names, leave the long shelf of books,
there,
> > and die happy."
> > -Jack Kerouac
> >
> > Unfortunately, or course, Kerouac never made it to "old age" and died
far
> > from "happy"... and never had a chance to insert the uniform names and
> > arrange the chronology.
> >
> > > > Kerouac reading & singing:
> >
> > > >http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_s...uacspeaks.html
> >
> > > > Anyway, either way, Kerouac set the standard for America, am I
right?
> >
> > > Apparently. I'm not aware of anyone talking about or writing haiku in
> > > English before that time. That's a tentative conclusion, though,
> > > since I don't know much about the subject; let's see what feedback, if
> > > any, this exchange gets from the group.
> >
> > Skipping ahead, I see Stuart Leichter has named a couple other poets who
> > wrote Haiku for /English/... but Kerouac proposed /American/ Haiku, with
all
> > the rough wildness unique to Americans... I'll check out his post and
see
> > for sure if this is true... Pound was Irish, right?
> >
> > --
> > "Ozone Stigmata" (the video):
> > Will Dockery -vocal
> > Henry Conley -guitar
> > Brian Fowler -mandolin
> > Produced and recorded at Echobeast Studios by Brian Fowler, images
> > compiled by A. Jinn.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxfl_7KvFcc
> >
> > "The Ride (Combat Zone)" (the video)
> > Shadowville All-Stars
> > Recorded at SoHo
> > Columbus, GA 31907
> > Video by Janis Petersenhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lZ3VAmNTWc
> >
> > > > "Mirror Twins" by W. Dockery-B.
> >
> > Fowler:http://www.myspace.com/shadowvilleallstars
> >
> > > > "Hasty Pudding" by W. Dockery-H.
> >
> > Conley:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery-Hide quoted text -
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
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> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
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> > - Show quoted text -
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