Re: Stress And Exercise

IOW, YOU GOT NO METHOD <{) ; ~ ) >

From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:40:55 -0500
Subject: Clicker Training

Hello People,

This might clear up the so called clicker training issue...

"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:8rop3j$g4a$1@uwm.edu...

> Dear Griz,
> I guess there is a place for Koehler's approach but it would
> be the last resource that I would consider.
>
> You need to read and learn about clicker training. It is a
> positive approach to training and the way you address
> undesirable behavior is by conditioning alternative
> desirable behavior.

Hello lyingdoc dermer,

I prefer the constructive approach, like YOU.

Take our lyingdoc dermer with a grain of salt, he endorses
koehler methods when his "science" fails him... The only
"training" he knows is to burn rats on hot plates to see if they
like it.

I do not condone ANY force, domination, fear, or
confrontation, in training.

I have no complaints with clicker training, per se... THREE
PROBLEMS HOWEver with clicker training, immediately
come to mind: it can be circuitous, complicated, and time
consuming, ESPECIALLY for addressing behavior
problems. I don't know ANYONE who would be satisfied
working for several weeks to break a dog of chewing
furniture, jumping, crapping on the floor, or aggression,
waiting for clicker training to take effect.

Furthermore, SOME "clicker" trainers, like shirley chong (the
craphouse dog trainer)
http://www.kaylar.com/users/wmdog/keepers/Lesson6.html,
recommended by susan frazer), is such an incompetent, she
"conditions" the dog to the clicker in the TOILET, because
it's a small room. And when she doesn't accomplish click
training the come command, BECAUSE she hasn't
GENERALIZED the "training," she THEN resorts to
physically punishing, jerking the dog on a pronged choke collar, and
burning
them with sadoelectronic
shock collars...

That's the caliber of "expertise" several of our renowned
Gang Of Thugs RECOMMEND... They are AFRAID that if non violent dog
training
methods are ACCEPTED, they will
be OUT OF BUSINESS.

No, there aren't many in this industry who can be spoken
well of. Far too many "trainers" use force, JUST AS far too
many who do NOT use force, do NOT know ENOUGH about
non force dog training methods, to effectively train dogs.

Here's a bit of the "excellent" advice our good pal and "water
closet trainer" extrodinaire shirly chong, recommended by
our experts here,
http://www.kaylar.com/users/wmdog/keepers/Lesson6.html
advises when her scientific clicker conditioning fails because
she doesn't know what she is doing...

"If the dog is still refusing the recall, then I escalate my
aversive a bit--usually, to taking two big handfuls of ruff as I
move backwards."

Does that sound like a competent trainer, or a moron trying
to sound like she knows what's up? I think she's as big a
fraud as any of the other violent force trainers. She's just
paying lip service to the "clicker people" who are equally lost
in the misinformation quagmire of the dog training "experts"
who relentlessly resort to more and more aggressive
methods of forcing behaviors that they are clueless
as to Howe to train.

"If I'm getting more refusals, I stop and think about the
situation. What part doesn't the dog understand? I have to
fix that part."

She probably has a healthy dump, and starts off choking the
dog when she's done with her sanitary needs.

"Some dogs do get "long line wise."

No, some trainers are just long line stupid. You can't force a
dog to come.

"That is, they never refuse a recall while on the long line but
when the long line is gone, they are unreliable even if the
handler started with close recalls off lead in a familiar (and
safely fenced) area."

That's because you can't teach compliance with force, no
matter HOWE gently you try to force. ANY force, even verbal opposition,

will
cause the opposition reflex to compel the
dog to do other than what you want. Too bad you sharp
trainers here don't understand that. It's called positive
thigmotaxis, and it's just as valid with a choke collar as it is
with a mental attitude. Force causes the dog to not
WANT TO respond.

"IF the dog never ever refuses a recall while on the long line,
no matter what the distraction (and I am pretty good at
devising distractions for this test!), then I move to a shock
collar."

That's a competent clicker trainer, by golly! Where do you
people come off with that kind of crap?

"To keep the dog from becoming collar wise, I spend a
couple weeks fiddling with putting both the dummy collar
and the working collar on and off the dog."

FINALLY SHE GOT SOMETHING WRONG, RIGHT!

Is this the only trainer besides me and Dog Game Superstar
that understands the necessity of prerequisite conditioning
to the collar prior to use???

lyingfrosty dahl HAS mentioned it, but NOT to give anyone
here any warning about the problem. Freaky frantik fraud die
just burns the dog till IT learns to shut the power off Itself.

Whomever said "you can fool some of the people some of
the time" would never have said that, were he to have been
dealing with this group of morons... He'd have said "tell 'em
anything you like, and if you sound as freaking stupid and
ignorant as them, they'll believe you! Just keep filling them
with half true baloney and add force and confrontation
and pain as filler to get them to identify with you, and you'll
impress the bejesus out of the stupid majority."

Good God are you people thick!!!

"I put it on several times a day and leave it on for a couple
hours at a time. Every time the dog goes outside, I put the
collar on (even if I have to take it off first in order to do so).
Basically, I make such a production out of putting the collar
on and off that the dog starts to tune it out."

Well, at least our "water closet trainer" extrodinaire does
understand the correct way to condition an ecollar, which is
more than our pals here know. There's a couple of them
here that are familiar with the necessity of properly
conditioning the collar, but frosty dahl won't admit that she
knows that I'm right and that fraud die has no idea what's up
with dog training.

I'm disgusted with our Gang Of Thugs' ignorance and lack
of concern and consideration for man's best friend, whom
they take to abusing as a normal course of events because
they simply don't know enough and could care less than to
find out.

You can get all the information you need to PROPERLY
handle and train your dog using non force, non
confronatational, scientific and psychological
methods, in the Wits' End Dog Training Method manual
available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com

Ask yourself "WHY DOESN'T JERRY HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM?"

And then just answer "BECAUSE JERRY KNOWS HOWE
TO TRAIN DOGS WITHOUT HURTING THEM."

And THEN SAY OUT LOUD: "IGNORE JERRY, HE'S MEAN TO DOG ABUSERS."

The Wits' End Dog Training Method manual is provided
compliments of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves as an
alternative to Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too).

Your pal, Jerry "The Phony," Howe. j;~}

	#1
I Am	Re: Stress And Exercise IOW, YOU GOT NO METHOD <{) ; ~ ) > From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:40:55 -0500 Subject: Clicker Training Hello People, This might clear up the so called clicker training issue... "Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message news:8rop3j$g4a$1@uwm.edu... > Dear Griz, > I guess there is a place for Koehler's approach but it would > be the last resource that I would consider. > > You need to read and learn about clicker training. It is a > positive approach to training and the way you address > undesirable behavior is by conditioning alternative > desirable behavior. Hello lyingdoc dermer, I prefer the constructive approach, like YOU. Take our lyingdoc dermer with a grain of salt, he endorses koehler methods when his "science" fails him... The only "training" he knows is to burn rats on hot plates to see if they like it. I do not condone ANY force, domination, fear, or confrontation, in training. I have no complaints with clicker training, per se... THREE PROBLEMS HOWEver with clicker training, immediately come to mind: it can be circuitous, complicated, and time consuming, ESPECIALLY for addressing behavior problems. I don't know ANYONE who would be satisfied working for several weeks to break a dog of chewing furniture, jumping, crapping on the floor, or aggression, waiting for clicker training to take effect. Furthermore, SOME "clicker" trainers, like shirley chong (the craphouse dog trainer) http://www.kaylar.com/users/wmdog/keepers/Lesson6.html, recommended by susan frazer), is such an incompetent, she "conditions" the dog to the clicker in the TOILET, because it's a small room. And when she doesn't accomplish click training the come command, BECAUSE she hasn't GENERALIZED the "training," she THEN resorts to physically punishing, jerking the dog on a pronged choke collar, and burning them with sadoelectronic shock collars... That's the caliber of "expertise" several of our renowned Gang Of Thugs RECOMMEND... They are AFRAID that if non violent dog training methods are ACCEPTED, they will be OUT OF BUSINESS. No, there aren't many in this industry who can be spoken well of. Far too many "trainers" use force, JUST AS far too many who do NOT use force, do NOT know ENOUGH about non force dog training methods, to effectively train dogs. Here's a bit of the "excellent" advice our good pal and "water closet trainer" extrodinaire shirly chong, recommended by our experts here, http://www.kaylar.com/users/wmdog/keepers/Lesson6.html advises when her scientific clicker conditioning fails because she doesn't know what she is doing... "If the dog is still refusing the recall, then I escalate my aversive a bit--usually, to taking two big handfuls of ruff as I move backwards." Does that sound like a competent trainer, or a moron trying to sound like she knows what's up? I think she's as big a fraud as any of the other violent force trainers. She's just paying lip service to the "clicker people" who are equally lost in the misinformation quagmire of the dog training "experts" who relentlessly resort to more and more aggressive methods of forcing behaviors that they are clueless as to Howe to train. "If I'm getting more refusals, I stop and think about the situation. What part doesn't the dog understand? I have to fix that part." She probably has a healthy dump, and starts off choking the dog when she's done with her sanitary needs. "Some dogs do get "long line wise." No, some trainers are just long line stupid. You can't force a dog to come. "That is, they never refuse a recall while on the long line but when the long line is gone, they are unreliable even if the handler started with close recalls off lead in a familiar (and safely fenced) area." That's because you can't teach compliance with force, no matter HOWE gently you try to force. ANY force, even verbal opposition, will cause the opposition reflex to compel the dog to do other than what you want. Too bad you sharp trainers here don't understand that. It's called positive thigmotaxis, and it's just as valid with a choke collar as it is with a mental attitude. Force causes the dog to not WANT TO respond. "IF the dog never ever refuses a recall while on the long line, no matter what the distraction (and I am pretty good at devising distractions for this test!), then I move to a shock collar." That's a competent clicker trainer, by golly! Where do you people come off with that kind of crap? "To keep the dog from becoming collar wise, I spend a couple weeks fiddling with putting both the dummy collar and the working collar on and off the dog." FINALLY SHE GOT SOMETHING WRONG, RIGHT! Is this the only trainer besides me and Dog Game Superstar that understands the necessity of prerequisite conditioning to the collar prior to use??? lyingfrosty dahl HAS mentioned it, but NOT to give anyone here any warning about the problem. Freaky frantik fraud die just burns the dog till IT learns to shut the power off Itself. Whomever said "you can fool some of the people some of the time" would never have said that, were he to have been dealing with this group of morons... He'd have said "tell 'em anything you like, and if you sound as freaking stupid and ignorant as them, they'll believe you! Just keep filling them with half true baloney and add force and confrontation and pain as filler to get them to identify with you, and you'll impress the bejesus out of the stupid majority." Good God are you people thick!!! "I put it on several times a day and leave it on for a couple hours at a time. Every time the dog goes outside, I put the collar on (even if I have to take it off first in order to do so). Basically, I make such a production out of putting the collar on and off that the dog starts to tune it out." Well, at least our "water closet trainer" extrodinaire does understand the correct way to condition an ecollar, which is more than our pals here know. There's a couple of them here that are familiar with the necessity of properly conditioning the collar, but frosty dahl won't admit that she knows that I'm right and that fraud die has no idea what's up with dog training. I'm disgusted with our Gang Of Thugs' ignorance and lack of concern and consideration for man's best friend, whom they take to abusing as a normal course of events because they simply don't know enough and could care less than to find out. You can get all the information you need to PROPERLY handle and train your dog using non force, non confronatational, scientific and psychological methods, in the Wits' End Dog Training Method manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com Ask yourself "WHY DOESN'T JERRY HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM?" And then just answer "BECAUSE JERRY KNOWS HOWE TO TRAIN DOGS WITHOUT HURTING THEM." And THEN SAY OUT LOUD: "IGNORE JERRY, HE'S MEAN TO DOG ABUSERS." The Wits' End Dog Training Method manual is provided compliments of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves as an alternative to Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too). Your pal, Jerry "The Phony," Howe. j;~}