Joseph Logan

"The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWizard@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<V5Q3b.936$Om1.586@newsread2.news.atl.earthli nk.net>...
> HOWEDY alison,
>
> "Alison" <alison@XallofusX.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:bioff7$l4f$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > These websites have advice about puppies
>
> That so? Is that where you got all the expert advice
> that makes your dogs have separation anxiety and
> other temperament and behavior disorders?
>
> The sites you recommend only teach avoidance
> bribery and aversives...
>
>

Have you ever considered psychotherapy?

Joseph Logan

"The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWizard@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<DTT3b.1905$Om1.496@newsread2.news.atl.earthl ink.net>...
> HOWEDY joseph,
>
> "Joseph Logan" <jlogan@theamericanrevolution.org> wrote in message
> news:5b07e9d7.0308291749.365d51ce@posting.google.c om...
> > "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWizard@earthlink.net> wrote in
> message
> news:<V5Q3b.936$Om1.586@newsread2.news.atl.earthli nk.net>...
> > > HOWEDY alison,
> > >
> > > "Alison" <alison@XallofusX.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> > > news:bioff7$l4f$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > > >
> > > > These websites have advice about puppies
> > >
> > > That so? Is that where you got all the expert advice
> > > that makes your dogs have separation anxiety and
> > > other temperament and behavior disorders?
> > >
> > > The sites you recommend only teach avoidance
> > > bribery and aversives...
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Have you ever considered psychotherapy?
>
> INDEEDY.
>
> The Puppy Wizard has determined that when
> new posters write in here, it's cause they're
> ready to HURT or KILL their dogs.
>
> The feel GUILTY when they read The Puppy
> Wizard's posts and attack HIM to defend their
> alleged right to HURT and KILL dogs.
>
> Parents who have problem dogs usually employ
> the same miserable handling techniques that taugh
> their dogs their behavior problems, on their children.
> That makes them particularly sensitive to any mention
> of NON VIOLENT TRAINING, cause that's not what
> they've been using on their infant children...
>
> Here's a little MOORE of The Puppy Wizard's
> freakin PSYCHOTHERAPY. DO TELL us what
> joseph finds TOO DIFFICULT to cope with:
>
...You will have to keep your posts a bit shorter. We mindless dog
beaters have trouble taking in so much mindless DRIVALIDOODOO.
Can someone tell me what the disorder is called when a person loves
animals and hate people?
Anyway, have a MARVELOUS HOWDYDIPPIDY DAY.

The Puppy Wizard

HOWEDY joseph,

"Joseph Logan" <jlogan@theamericanrevolution.org> wrote in message
news:5b07e9d7.0308301614.106f563@posting.google.co m...
> "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWizard@earthlink.net> wrote in
message
news:<DTT3b.1905$Om1.496@newsread2.news.atl.earthl ink.net>...
> > HOWEDY joseph,
> >
> > "Joseph Logan" <jlogan@theamericanrevolution.org> wrote in
message
> > news:5b07e9d7.0308291749.365d51ce@posting.google.c om...
> > > "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWizard@earthlink.net>
> > > wrote in message
news:<V5Q3b.936$Om1.586@newsread2.news.atl.earthli nk.net>...
>
> > > > HOWEDY alison,

alison picks up doody in a boarding kennel.

> > > > "Alison" <alison@XallofusX.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in
> > > > message
> > > > news:bioff7$l4f$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > > > >
> > > > > These websites have advice about puppies

Those websites teach HURTIN and KILLIN dogs.

> > > > That so? Is that where you got all the expert advice
> > > > that makes your dogs have separation anxiety and
> > > > other temperament and behavior disorders?
>
> > > > The sites you recommend only teach avoidance
> > > > bribery and aversives...
>
> > > Have you ever considered psychotherapy?
> >
> > INDEEDY.
> >
> > The Puppy Wizard has determined that when
> > new posters write in here, it's cause they're
> > ready to HURT or KILL their dogs.
> >
> > The feel GUILTY when they read The Puppy
> > Wizard's posts and attack HIM to defend their
> > alleged right to HURT and KILL dogs.
> >
> > Parents who have problem dogs usually employ
> > the same miserable handling techniques that taught
> > their dogs their behavior problems, on their children.
> > That makes them particularly sensitive to any mention
> > of NON VIOLENT TRAINING, cause that's not what
> > they've been using on their infant children...
> >
> > Here's a little MOORE of The Puppy Wizard's
> > freakin PSYCHOTHERAPY. DO TELL us what
> > joseph finds TOO DIFFICULT to cope with:
>
> ..You will have to keep your posts a bit shorter.

You can read a little each day till you absorb it.

> We mindless dog beaters have trouble taking in so much

Take it like a man.

> mindless DRIVALIDOODOO.

The Puppy Wizard meant nothin personal...

> Can someone tell me what the disorder is called

It's called The SYNDROME.

> when a person loves animals and hate people?

Love / hate got nuthin to do with it. FEAR is your motivator.

> Anyway, have a MARVELOUS HOWDYDIPPIDY DAY.

INDEEDY. Yourself, likeWIZE. Enjoy this:

From: Diana (diana_pete.attwood@lineone.net)
Subject: whoa - very long but you asked for it.

Date: 2001-11-10 05:19:06 PST

Cheers, Sionnch,

I was getting a bit paranoid there and I did think you were
just all on a mission to hound me out after my statement.
I've got some time now so I will answer you questions as
it so obviously caused great upset amongst you all.

That statement being that I actually like Jerry and his stuff.

Read carefully if you interested, because I know how easy it
is to miss things, grab the wrong end of the stick etc &
misinterpret... done it myself a million times. It also goes
quite in depth about the dogs I lived with as a child and the
methods my parents used to train both the dogs and us.

I barely remember the Shelti my parents had when I was born
-apparently she died when I was about 2, but we got Ivan the
Samoyed (visually - not pure) when I was 3(ish). I do remember
even going to pick him up as a pup and there were little
fluffy baby dogs everywhere... some were black and I wanted a
black one but Dad said we had to have a white one because
Samoyeds were supposed to be white and we wanted it to look
like we had a pure samoyed - don't hang me here - remember it
clear as day but I was only about 3. We lived in Vancouver
then.. if anyone's interested. I loved Ivan - but he chewed
our toys. This made Dad mad so he would hit him so hard he
screamed and throw him down the stairs. Tony (brother) was a
toddler - but I remember that I had to look out for any toys,
both mine and his to make sure they would not be chewed and
those that were got, got hidden. His temper and excessive
punishments were not just for Ivan. I remember clearly one
morning being up before my parents and playing in the kitchen,
pretending to be mum, as kids do... but got caught with the
electric carving knife. A leather belt across the backside
hurts. Even now I can not understand how he could have done
that to a 3-4 year old child... or a pup.

When I was four my parents decided that they wanted to come
back to England and I remember hating the little girl who came
with her dad to take Ivan away and being told he would be her
dog now.

We came o England & stayed at Nan's for some time. Nan had
Sheba- beautiful but elderly Rough Collie. Was so passive and
quiet . Then one day I fell down the stairs. As I tumbled
down, she came up and caught me... at four I was feeling more
and more fearful of people but safe in the company of dogs.

We moved out of Nan's and in to our own home. It was a large
house & had a huge garden & was opposite a large public park -
I think I was about 51/2 when Dad brought home Tisha - a
Borzoi pup. She wet & messed the floor and was punished by
having her nose pushed in it, a slipper across the backside so
she yelped and being thrown outside, I didn't like this - I
was sure they didn't have to do this to her. Dad loved her -
she was his dog and we had to ask permission to touch her. He
liked his big car ~ posh dog image.

The garden was big, the fence was big - the park opposite was
fun the road in between was fast. Tisha got big and took a big
jump. She made 18 months.

The discussions went on - Dad wanted a dog for himself, so it
was decided that they were going to get an Old English
Sheepdog for them and a Basset for us kids... then we went
around to loads of breeders and saw loads of pups - dogs being
very my passion I took it all in. I remember the Old English
Sheepdog lady telling Mum why she thought we shouldn't have
one with 2 young children, and so it was decided that while
Dad made up his mind what he wanted, Mum would take us to the
RSPCA to choose a dog for us.

We picked up Sadie in 1976 - 4 months old JRT x. I was 7 - I
was unhappy at school, I had never settled in,at first being
shy of my different accent and because I was a timid child
anyway. Sadie was my olny friend. Sadie messed the floor,
Sadie got her nose shoved in it, and the whack - Sadie did not
learn - she was so scared of people coming down the stairs in
the morning that she wet & messed the floor - so they hit her.
I would try and sneak down and tidy up before they came down -
I would get hit for being soft on her.

Sadie pulled on the lead. I never mentioned mum was a horse
fanatic ~ she showed me that the way to stop Sadie pulling was
to snap a shoot from a tree and use it as a whip on the dogs
nose. I didn't like it but I knew no better - I was
desperately looking for a better method - it was my job to
walk her after school.

Barbara Woodhouse came on tv... my love of dogs and all I had
learnt about breeds now extended and I learnt about choke
collars - much preferable to the whip - I also saw how she
used methods such as copying the dogs play stance and how she
had commended someone for using my trick of rubbing a dogs
chest to calm it - I was dead proud because I had already
learnt that for myself.

Sadie was a JRT x. She was also as afraid of my bad tempered
and unreasonable father as I was. We spent so much time curled
together, cowering behind the sofa.

I had always thought it would be great if I could teach Sadie
to speak. She got pretty good at the jumps and obedience games
we played in the garden and I was learning bout how to ask her
to do these things using enthusiasm as the motivation. 'Look,
come on, we can do this...' I wish my parents could have
looked out of the window to see this.

I was 9 when Mum got taken in to hospital to have Jonny.
Something had gone wrong and she was in there for 3 months.
Sadie went to kennels, Me & Tony went to Nan's.

Sheba had long since gone and she had Bridie, another rough
collie. Bridie had a long, long pedigree - she also had a
long, long nose... so long she could not close her mouth
properly. For a young dog she may have looked beautiful but
she couldn't / wouldn't do anything.I would walk her and
should float along behind - I had always dreamt of breeding
Old English Mastiffs when I was grown up. I decided I no
longer liked the idea of breeding beautiful pedigrees.

Jonny was born and we all came home. Sadie loved the baby. She
would, at any time when we were together, take my hand in her
mouth and take me to the crib, which she would stand up
against, watching. I realised that this was my childhood dream
- Sadie was talking to me. I realised then too that she had
been all along. It was my fault for not listening.

Dad's business started going wrong. We had to sell the house.
Sadie went to kennels & we moved around in rented
accommodation for a while. Sadie was my only friend and I
missed her. Eventually we found a place where Sadie could
come. It was great to have her back but she had been
disturbed. She had never been totally housetrained - due to
her fear of punishment - Dad's failing business made him even
worse & his bad temper was becoming more & more viscous. Sadie
messed the floor, Sadie jumped on the kitchen counter & stole
food, Sadie's punishments were beatings so bad I thought he'd
kill her. I would scream & cry, I would get some to.

Eventually, by the time I was 10 we found a cottage they could
afford and Dad started his business again. He struggled &
struggled and was becoming nastier and nastier. We all just
kept out of the way. Mum & Dad would go out to the Pub and I
would look after my brothers - while they were out we were
fine. Luckily they were out a lot. I was 14 when Dulcie, my
sister was born. I couldn't see why they did this - I was
already pretty much the only mother Jonny knew, Dad's business
was failing again and we had to sell the house again. Rented
accommodation again - no dogs. Sadie went to stay at Dad's
business property for a while. It was a fair way away and I
went with Dad to work on Saturdays when I could - but he
didn't want me there. I saw her loose her 'terrierness' and
she looked so sad - then Mum took her to kennels, this time
for good. I was completely broken by this but could do nothing
else.

Things got worse & to be honest I blocked most of my memory of
the in-between years. I jumped into the first job I could get
to get me away from home as soon as possible & not so much
chose a career as made an escape. I left home but was so hard
up I worked day & night just for rent and food. I was doing
hairdressing - poor choice for a young girl nigh on phobic of
people. It did help bring me back out of myself but I knew I
was playing the wrong game. My boss at the hairdressers found
me the job at the sign makers and I was finally able to start
doing what I was good at. Unfortunately just in time for the
early 90's recession... so for the love of the job I struggled
on low wages and living in bedsits

All this time I could not have a dog. I needed a stable home
environment & I struggled & struggled on low wages just hoping
this dream would come true... In between time everybody's dog
was my dog. I was always willing to walk them & learn from
them. People were always happy to get out of walkies if there
was a willing volunteer... and I realised how much Sadie had
taught me. From JRT's to Rotties & Danes.. they responded to
enthusiasm, eye contact and body stance.

It never, ever occurred to me that you could get job as a dog
trainer except for in the police or army...

I had learnt my own ways of handling dogs, from dogs... not
problem dogs or aggressive dogs but generally peoples pets who
generally appreciated the attention.

I met Pete, we bought our home and I begged, bribed near
enough blackmailed my boss to let me bring a dog to work -
much of it on the grounds that I had worked beside him and
helped him through the grey days of recession - it was payback
time. He gave in & we got Stone.

She knew 'sit', she knew 'stay' and she was pretty good on the
lead. No was the stop it command ~ and on command she would
stop. She was, as I have mentioned many times before, in a
real mess both physically & emotionally, but we worked on this
on the basis that we only ever offered a 'no' when it was for
reasons of her own safety and offered her lots and lots of
praise - just for being there. Her confidence grew -

Eventually - behaviour became a popular thing on TV and I
could see 'behaviourists' putting methods in to play that I
had already used - namely Barking Mad (BBC TV) My interest in
this side started a revival and I started looking around the
internet. Then discovered alt.animals.dog and could share a
few of my ideas - Stone's problem with her flank sucking
really became an issue in May this year. Looking for an answer
which no one in my ng could help me with I started looking at
the others - inc. this one. I posted My Girl here in about
July time and had a few responses - I got sent Jerry's book
and for the very first time I read a completely passive means
of dog training. I think of Ivan, I think of poor Sadie...
and I talk to people and hear them tell me of the time they
had to beat there dog for chewing or running off... and I know
from Sadie and I know from Stone that it is not necessary -
but then without showing them it's hard to prove it and too,
with all theory and no practice it's hard to make it sound
like a real means whereas they watch uncle Matty work miracles
with his choke collar and they love the convenience of crating
their dogs - so to prove it I need to come here and put these
ideas across and learn from them.

I hope that gives you good insight as to why I like jerry's
book.

As for Jerry himself, when I thanked him for his book he was
as nice a person as one could communicate with. I see that he
is sometimes nasty, I can see that it's a pain ~ but too can I
see that in his mind he's standing up for the likes of poor
Ivan & Sadie.. and even to a degree me as a young girl.

That's not what I want... but I can see why. His sanity?

Questionable, as probably too is my own. It's taken me a long
long time to be able to stand up on my own and say and do as I
believe rather than hiding in shadows - a right I am not now
going to give up quickly...

Jerry has got good stuff to say -

I can see also that some things may be questionable or could
be improved upon but the concept of a completely passive means
of working with dogs, or indeed any animal, has got to be an
ideal worth reaching for.
http://website.lineone.net/~diana_pete.attwood