How to teach NO

HOWEDY bringmewater,

bringmewater@gmail.com wrote:
>
> How do you teach a puppy the meaning of NO?

You can't.

Dogs and preverbal children do not have the
capacity to understand the meaning of "NO!".
All tellin them "NO!" does is make them fear
and hate you and adds value to the behavior.

HOWEver, you CAN EXXXTINGUISH ANY behavior
NEARLY INSTANTLY using praise in advance
and effective non physical scientific and
psychological distraction and praise con-
ditioning techniques as taught in your own
FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual <{); ~ ) >

OtherWIZE you'll end up lookin like THIS:

Aggression, Opposition And Allelomimetic Behavior -
Teaching RESPECT For Your HIGHER INTELLIGENCE -
"BAD DOG ALWAYS WORKS!!!"

Here's professor SCRUFF SHAKE:

Mine will go "bonkers" if he has been exercise deprived.

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: new puppy bitting/chewing hands
Date: 1999/07/05

In article
<976F54CA8C2C77AB.9DF245927D0DAB8B.90BA464FE454E.. .@lp.airnews.net

> Jason <asl...@removethisline.geocities.com> writes:
:
> I would assume that all puppies like to bite and chew
> on just about anything. How do you train a young
> puppy NOT to chew on hands and feet? Although
> there is a time and place for saying 'no' and giving
> the dog a scruff shake I do no know if this is appropriate
> at this age.

At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral
function. But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy
by its neck and shake it a bit, and the frequency
of the biting decreases then you will have achieved
too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has
decreased; and two, you have established "No"
as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted biting.

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before
mild forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's
mouth closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad
Dog" came before stronger punishement (the
kind discussed above).

My dog is about 1.5 years old. "No" is usually
sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog" to
stop a behavior.

"Bad Dog" ALWAYS works.

then, of course, quickly say "Good Dog" when
he is appropriately behaving.

In providing verbal punishment and reinforcement
as in using nonverbal punishement and reinforcement,
timing is very important.

Use these consquences to control behavior much
as in the game where a child is told "your getting hot"
or "your getting cold." If the delay between the behavior
and the consquence is too long then the behavior will
not appropriately change.

--Marshall

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Update on Puppy Biting
Date: 1999/06/14

In article <37675817.19034...@news3.bga.com>
clayn@NO_JUNKdillonet.com
writes:
:
> My previous thread seems to have deteriorated
> off topic, but I would still like some input on
> biting and aggressive behavior. To recount I
> have a Chow/Lab mix who is now 9 weeks old.
> The biggest problem I had with him is biting.
:
> This could have been when petting him, walking
> by, or when playing. This seems to be his way of
> playing or getting attention, but it can drive me nuts.

> To stop this I've distracted with chew toys,

Distraction can be a BIG mistake! Why? Because if
your manipulation of the chew toy is reinforcing then
you are inadvertently reinforcing your dog for biting if
you follow his biting with activating the chew toy.

The standard way to curtail biting is to either "yelp
loudly," "clamp the dog's mouth shut with your hand,"
or "pick him up by the scruff of his neck" and say "no"
whenever he bites.

All of these are punishment procedures and
to work they must be put into place promptly,
within say .5 sec, after the bite.

Isolating the dog after a bite is another form
of punishment called time-out (from reinforcement
but it is hard to rapidly implement--within .5
sec of a bite.

If one of these procedures does not work, that is,
your dog behaves as if it were a game, then you
are not using an effective punisher/procedure.

> I said NO, and failing that put him in my room
> alone for a few min. When in there he barks
> and whines, but afterwards behaves much better.
> After about a week of this the biting has decreased
> remarkably, but hasn't stopped outright. Still does it
> when he gets into hyper Puppy Jihad mode.

Well, be patient.

You can, of course, use differential reinforcement
of other behavior to eliminate biting. If there is a
situation in which your dog often bites. then create
the situation and if your dog goes without biting for
1 sec. offer a reinforcer (click and treat if you use
a clicker).

Then gradually increase the time that your dog
must go without biting for the reinforcer to be
delivered. Eventually, your dog will not bite and
the other behaviors that you have been reinforcing
will be more frequent.

Another factor to consider is whether your dog
is getting sufficient exercise.

Mine will go "bonkers" if he has been exercise deprived.

Best wishes,

Marshall

"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will
Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe.
This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times
It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."

"I have heard advice stating that you should
pre-load your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work
as efficiently as possible. What does this mean?

When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior." --Mike Dufort author of the zero selling
book "Courteous Canines"

Dogs is dumb critters. You CANNOT teach a pre
verbal child or dumb critter the MEANING of
ANY THING on accHOWENT of they CAN'T UNDERSTAND
the MEANING of "NO!", bringmewater.

THAT'S HOWE COME DOG LOVERS and PARENTS ABUSE
their innocent children and dumb animals, bringmewater.

THAT'S HOWE COME dogs and children GET behavior
and temperament problems, bringmewater.

Tellin a dumb critter or innocent child "NO!"
only INTIMIDATES and makes them FEAR and MISTRUST
you and teaches them that whatever you're trying
to PROTECT them from is VERY WORTH GETTING when
you turn your back on them and teaches them to
DO LIKEWIZE when they get afraid or anXXXIHOWES
and run HOWETA ideas and information and got to
resort to pain fear force and intimidation.

THAT'S HOWE COME DOGS EAT POISON and TURN ON THEIR
ABUSERS and GET DEAD, bringmewater <{); ~ ) >

We've been through this with EVERY DEAD DOG we've
enterTRAINED TO DEATH RIGHT HERE bringmewater.

You and your punk thug coward mental case pals
just continue to IGNORE the CASE HISTORY DATA
and SCIENTIFIC DOCUMENTATION PROVING every thing
The Amazing Puppy Wizard and HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Students ALL OVER The WHOWE
WILD WORLD SEZ who TOLD YOU HOWE they done it EZ
GENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY and FOR FREE, to boot <{); ~ ) >

But you bums PREFER to HURT and INTIMDIATE your
dogs so NUTHIN can train them on accHOWENT of
ALL behavior problems are CAUSED by your mistaken
ignorant viciHOWES cruel Sadistic methods to force
bribe avoid and intimidate your dogs JUST LIKE HOWE
you do your children AND IT DON'T WORK but THAT'S
ALL YOU KNOW and anything DIFFERENT like 100% CONSISTENT
NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS by NOT DOIN NUTHIN that you do
WORKS LIKE FREAKIN MAGICK ONLY BETTER but you gotta
STOP HURTING your dogs and you CAN'T on accHOWENT of
THAT DON'T FEEL LIKE YOU'RE IN CON-TROLL and THAT
REALLY PISSES YOU PIGS OFF, don't it.

BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

> Thanks !

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAAAA!!!

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

"The day may come when the rest of the animal creation
may acquire those rights which never could have been
withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.

The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham

"Thank you for fighting the fine fight-
-even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.

The Puppy Wizard sez

"A dog is a dog as a child is a child. They only
respond in PREDICTABLE NORMAL NATURAL
INNATE INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE ways to
situations and circumstances of their environment
which we create for them.

ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING. Damn The Descartean War of
"Nature Vs Nurture." We Teach By HOWER Words
And Actions And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH. SAME SAME SAME
SAME, For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

<"Terri"@cyberhighway

> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual*.

Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog
into good behavior. Naive is believing that people that
hide behind fake names are more honest than people that
use their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante
dog breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey
(lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.) are the equal or better than
those that have studied and lived by their craft for
decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.

> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.

> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.

>Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

	#1
WardManager@Animail.Net	How to teach NO HOWEDY bringmewater, bringmewater@gmail.com wrote: > > How do you teach a puppy the meaning of NO? You can't. Dogs and preverbal children do not have the capacity to understand the meaning of "NO!". All tellin them "NO!" does is make them fear and hate you and adds value to the behavior. HOWEver, you CAN EXXXTINGUISH ANY behavior NEARLY INSTANTLY using praise in advance and effective non physical scientific and psychological distraction and praise con- ditioning techniques as taught in your own FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{); ~ ) > OtherWIZE you'll end up lookin like THIS: Aggression, Opposition And Allelomimetic Behavior - Teaching RESPECT For Your HIGHER INTELLIGENCE - "BAD DOG ALWAYS WORKS!!!" Here's professor SCRUFF SHAKE: Mine will go "bonkers" if he has been exercise deprived. From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu) Subject: Re: new puppy bitting/chewing hands Date: 1999/07/05 In article <976F54CA8C2C77AB.9DF245927D0DAB8B.90BA464FE454E.. .@lp.airnews.net > Jason <asl...@removethisline.geocities.com> writes: : > I would assume that all puppies like to bite and chew > on just about anything. How do you train a young > puppy NOT to chew on hands and feet? Although > there is a time and place for saying 'no' and giving > the dog a scruff shake I do no know if this is appropriate > at this age. At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function. But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases then you will have achieved too things. First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased; and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher. How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted biting. When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above). My dog is about 1.5 years old. "No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog" to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works. then, of course, quickly say "Good Dog" when he is appropriately behaving. In providing verbal punishment and reinforcement as in using nonverbal punishement and reinforcement, timing is very important. Use these consquences to control behavior much as in the game where a child is told "your getting hot" or "your getting cold." If the delay between the behavior and the consquence is too long then the behavior will not appropriately change. --Marshall From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu) Subject: Re: Update on Puppy Biting Date: 1999/06/14 In article <37675817.19034...@news3.bga.com> clayn@NO_JUNKdillonet.com writes: : > My previous thread seems to have deteriorated > off topic, but I would still like some input on > biting and aggressive behavior. To recount I > have a Chow/Lab mix who is now 9 weeks old. > The biggest problem I had with him is biting. : > This could have been when petting him, walking > by, or when playing. This seems to be his way of > playing or getting attention, but it can drive me nuts. > To stop this I've distracted with chew toys, Distraction can be a BIG mistake! Why? Because if your manipulation of the chew toy is reinforcing then you are inadvertently reinforcing your dog for biting if you follow his biting with activating the chew toy. The standard way to curtail biting is to either "yelp loudly," "clamp the dog's mouth shut with your hand," or "pick him up by the scruff of his neck" and say "no" whenever he bites. All of these are punishment procedures and to work they must be put into place promptly, within say .5 sec, after the bite. Isolating the dog after a bite is another form of punishment called time-out (from reinforcement but it is hard to rapidly implement--within .5 sec of a bite. If one of these procedures does not work, that is, your dog behaves as if it were a game, then you are not using an effective punisher/procedure. > I said NO, and failing that put him in my room > alone for a few min. When in there he barks > and whines, but afterwards behaves much better. > After about a week of this the biting has decreased > remarkably, but hasn't stopped outright. Still does it > when he gets into hyper Puppy Jihad mode. Well, be patient. You can, of course, use differential reinforcement of other behavior to eliminate biting. If there is a situation in which your dog often bites. then create the situation and if your dog goes without biting for 1 sec. offer a reinforcer (click and treat if you use a clicker). Then gradually increase the time that your dog must go without biting for the reinforcer to be delivered. Eventually, your dog will not bite and the other behaviors that you have been reinforcing will be more frequent. Another factor to consider is whether your dog is getting sufficient exercise. Mine will go "bonkers" if he has been exercise deprived. Best wishes, Marshall "Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap," professora gingold. "Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth, author: "Courteous Canine." "I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently as possible. What does this mean? When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore him and continue your normal behavior." --Mike Dufort author of the zero selling book "Courteous Canines" Dogs is dumb critters. You CANNOT teach a pre verbal child or dumb critter the MEANING of ANY THING on accHOWENT of they CAN'T UNDERSTAND the MEANING of "NO!", bringmewater. THAT'S HOWE COME DOG LOVERS and PARENTS ABUSE their innocent children and dumb animals, bringmewater. THAT'S HOWE COME dogs and children GET behavior and temperament problems, bringmewater. Tellin a dumb critter or innocent child "NO!" only INTIMIDATES and makes them FEAR and MISTRUST you and teaches them that whatever you're trying to PROTECT them from is VERY WORTH GETTING when you turn your back on them and teaches them to DO LIKEWIZE when they get afraid or anXXXIHOWES and run HOWETA ideas and information and got to resort to pain fear force and intimidation. THAT'S HOWE COME DOGS EAT POISON and TURN ON THEIR ABUSERS and GET DEAD, bringmewater <{); ~ ) > We've been through this with EVERY DEAD DOG we've enterTRAINED TO DEATH RIGHT HERE bringmewater. You and your punk thug coward mental case pals just continue to IGNORE the CASE HISTORY DATA and SCIENTIFIC DOCUMENTATION PROVING every thing The Amazing Puppy Wizard and HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students ALL OVER The WHOWE WILD WORLD SEZ who TOLD YOU HOWE they done it EZ GENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY and FOR FREE, to boot <{); ~ ) > But you bums PREFER to HURT and INTIMDIATE your dogs so NUTHIN can train them on accHOWENT of ALL behavior problems are CAUSED by your mistaken ignorant viciHOWES cruel Sadistic methods to force bribe avoid and intimidate your dogs JUST LIKE HOWE you do your children AND IT DON'T WORK but THAT'S ALL YOU KNOW and anything DIFFERENT like 100% CONSISTENT NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS by NOT DOIN NUTHIN that you do WORKS LIKE FREAKIN MAGICK ONLY BETTER but you gotta STOP HURTING your dogs and you CAN'T on accHOWENT of THAT DON'T FEEL LIKE YOU'RE IN CON-TROLL and THAT REALLY PISSES YOU PIGS OFF, don't it. BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAAAA!!! > Thanks ! BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAAAA!!! "Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn. lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver: For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it. When he barks, use the line for a correction. - if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar. Lynn K. "The day may come when the rest of the animal creation may acquire those rights which never could have been withholden from them but by the hand of tyranny. The question is not can they REASON, nor can they TALK, but can they SUFFER?" - - Jeremy Bentham "Thank you for fighting the fine fight- -even tho it's a hopeless task, in this system of things. As long as man is ruling man, there will be animals (and humans!) abused and neglected. :-( Your student," Juanita. The Puppy Wizard sez "A dog is a dog as a child is a child. They only respond in PREDICTABLE NORMAL NATURAL INNATE INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE ways to situations and circumstances of their environment which we create for them. ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY MISHANDLING. Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture." We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions And GET BACK What We TAUGHT. In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS FAILURE MEANS DEATH. SAME SAME SAME SAME, For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS. <"Terri"@cyberhighway > Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry. > He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and > watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth! > Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs > come forward and actually believe in his training manual*. Robert Crim writes: I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs since I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe and use it. This naive child would like to say thank you to both Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers. The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the nagging idea that if people like them had been posting earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he gasped his last gasp. To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog into good behavior. Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake names are more honest than people that use their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.) are the equal or better than those that have studied and lived by their craft for decades. "Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are going to just go away because you people act like fools. Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I don't really care. > And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and > actually admit to buying and having success with his > little black box. I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll never know. > Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by > Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming > to him! LOL! I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right. >Terri Yes it was, and that is sad. Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to listen to the box first?)